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New dev blog: Introducing Cerberus

First post
Author
Letrange
Chaosstorm Corporation
#21 - 2011-11-25 15:30:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Letrange
Actually if you're working on this, could you please take a look at the "tab translation" system that's used by FFXIV and FFXI that allows specific terms to be translated in the appropriate language of the game client viewing the chat

so someone would for example type in chat:

does anyone have 6 x Neutron Blaster I

but hitting tab after things that auto translate as you type it would end up like:

does (anyone) (have) 6 x (Neutron Blaster I) ?

on the english client and if there was a french client looking at the same chat channel it would look like:

does (n'importe qui) (avoir) 6 x (Fusil a Neutron I) ?

which although not necessarily grammatically correct, a french speaker would at least be able to figure out what you're trying to ask and also it would alleviate the issue raised earlier about knowing the English item names when you want to talk to an international audiences since each client would see the correct translation of the item for that client.

At the very least if you use the item link feature, each client should use the localized text which would be a primitive version of this functionality that would be limited to the inventory items (if it doesn't already do this).
Alexandra Alt
Doomheim
#22 - 2011-11-25 15:31:10 UTC
Translations are so boring and quite a hard work to do when developing, so many things to consider in several languages, left to right, the encoding (although now all is utf-8), the plurals, the grammar, it's really a lot of work, therefore, my sympathies and (although not English I'd rather English only client personally) I applaud for this huge work done, and to be done. Good work.
CCP Ronin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#23 - 2011-11-25 15:53:14 UTC
To comment on two things I've seen brought up here:

- There are no plans to "force" localizations on people. The escape menu will continue to allow you to choose whatever language you like. After all, we are a company that's half-full of foreigners living in Iceland, so we're well aware that people don't always want to use the language of their IP address Smile

- As the localization project progresses, we are being very careful to consider the usability of people talking to each other. Our purpose is to encourage as much interaction as possible, not to wall people off in language-gardens.

CCP Ronin Senior Programmer -- Internationalization

Mekhana
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2011-11-25 15:58:19 UTC
Looking forward to a Brazilian Portuguese client?

Vide longe er eros di Luminaire VII, uni canse pra krage e determiniex! Sange por Sange! Descanse bravex eros, mie freires. Mortir por vostre Liberete, farmilie, ide e amis. lons Proviste sen mort! Luminaire liber mas! 

Arkady Sadik
Gradient
Electus Matari
#25 - 2011-11-25 15:58:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Arkady Sadik
One of the most annoying aspects of the localization of the game client has been the translation of links, e.g. solar system links or item exchange contract links. If they're created by someone with a German client, they show up as German for everyone. That's ... problematic. (The bug where warping to a FW plex in a localized client created a localized plex name for everyone, or where scanner probe names were localized for everyone based on the creator's localization, seems to have been fixed :o))

I'm German and I run the English client. Not only do the German translations often sound quite awkward (which partly is due to them being unfamiliar), the translations already causes quite a few communication problems with English-speaking people.

A game I knew - forgot which it was - had a pretty nifty i18n support: You could hold shift down for a few seconds, and then it would translate the UI into a different language while it was held down. E.g. you could play it in German, but if you were confused about a term, you could hold down the shift key and see the original term used, and then immediately switch back to German. It was quite a good concept.
CCP Sisyphus
C C P
C C P Alliance
#26 - 2011-11-25 15:59:15 UTC
smaster wrote:
I want the imperial units for EVE online.
Its not very helpfull if you have to convert every unit scale in the game in feet and pounds.
At least u have included a ingame calculator. THANK YOU Cry


no. just no.

feet/sec for velocity, mass in pounds/tons..
Shocked
(need a brain asplode smiley)

CCP Sisyphus | Team TriLambda | Team Klang | @CCP_Sisyphus

Hungry Eyes
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#27 - 2011-11-25 16:00:15 UTC
nm
Nuklearwanze
Joint Special Operations
#28 - 2011-11-25 16:06:33 UTC
thoth rothschild wrote:
For the people wondering about the doomsday


"Maschine des Tages des jüngsten Gerichtes"



never understood why they went with such an awkward translation - anyone, who has seen "Dr. Strangelove" dubbed in german, knows a much more straight forward translation:

Weltvernichtungswaffe

also "Superwaffe" (translated back into english: Superweapon) would be much better


(German native speaker, never really used the localized client, as sci-fi-terms generally sound terrible, when translated into german)
Alers Gerats
Absolute Order
Absolute Honor
#29 - 2011-11-25 16:08:19 UTC
Is it me or is the link to the German thread not working? And also not a real link?
Its also not in the German version of the dev blog.

-- Quia Ego Sic Dico

Schnoo
The Schnoo
#30 - 2011-11-25 16:08:22 UTC
I'm not a native Japanese speaker, in fact I can only barely understand complex text, but please don't do translations for solar systems, ship types and modules. Unlike German and Russian, in Japanese it's somewhat popular to use katakanized (the act of transcribing foreign words into Katakana) words, much like the シェア (share -> shea) word from the article.

In fact, sometimes reading the Japanese in-game channel, I've seen this being quite popular.
Arkady Sadik
Gradient
Electus Matari
#31 - 2011-11-25 16:11:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Arkady Sadik
CCP Sisyphus wrote:
smaster wrote:
I want the imperial units for EVE online.
Its not very helpfull if you have to convert every unit scale in the game in feet and pounds.
At least u have included a ingame calculator. THANK YOU Cry


no. just no.

feet/sec for velocity, mass in pounds/tons..
How about displaying interceptor speed (and only those) in furlongs per microfortnight? Please? :o)

Nuklearwanze wrote:
(German native speaker, never really used the localized client, as sci-fi-terms generally sound terrible, when translated into german)
I always wondered how German fleets are supposed to sound like. "Flotte, auf das Sternentor ausrichten! Raumverzerrungsantrieb starten!" ... I think I'd be down on the floor laughing myself dead, which is not a very efficient way to play the game! ;-)

I actually recently had a Ventrilo discussion with another German guy in my alliance, and after two minutes, we decided to just talk in English because that's easier for both of us than trying to figure out whether to translate a term or just leave it English. I guess it depends a lot on who you play with regularly.
Schnoo
The Schnoo
#32 - 2011-11-25 16:15:34 UTC
CCP Sisyphus wrote:
smaster wrote:
I want the imperial units for EVE online.
Its not very helpfull if you have to convert every unit scale in the game in feet and pounds.
At least u have included a ingame calculator. THANK YOU Cry


no. just no.

feet/sec for velocity, mass in pounds/tons..
Shocked
(need a brain asplode smiley)

(While taking part in a late night incursion group)
Can someone carry 9005.24 feet3 ore?
Zagdul
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2011-11-25 16:16:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Zagdul
I understand the reason you're doing this as it makes EVE more accessible to people around the world thus opening up a wider player base. I don't knock that and think it's a good idea for you as a company to stay competitive with the type of game you've build and to help it grow.

However, I think it may be a bad idea for a few reasons. I really enjoy the fact that in just my alliance I have people from many different parts of the world who's native tongue isn't English. It's fun to learn about their cultures and they enjoy learning about ours, or yours. This new push will further dampen that abliity to happen.

Another issue I see arising is calling primaries for people who use their localized client but have a different language speaking Fleet Commander. In my humble opinion, you shouldn't localize the ship types for this reason alone. Most FC's will ask their fleet to sort by distance/name/type etc. and the ability to sort by these in a standardized way is pretty vital.

Even if it's localized on the client, but when sorted it follows English no matter what would be cool.

Dual Pane idea: Click!

CCP Please Implement

GateScout
State War Academy
Caldari State
#34 - 2011-11-25 16:18:45 UTC
Rakshasa Taisab wrote:
Quote:
pronunciation (in Japanese, used for sorting)


WTF do you mean by 'sorting'?

I have never come across that term when it comes to Japanese grammar.

I had a long post about this, but the forums just ate it. Evil Go to goggle and search for this: "Sorting in Japanese — An Unsolved Problem" Read that blog post and you'll understand.

If you're really interested in this topic, continue reading: http://www.localizingjapan.com
Rabid cat
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#35 - 2011-11-25 16:21:34 UTC
If someone in my country wanted to use localized client he would be ganked ganked and ganked until he quit eve.
CCP Sisyphus
C C P
C C P Alliance
#36 - 2011-11-25 16:25:45 UTC
To put some of these people at ease:

Right now we are not localizing types, locations or NPC names. eg, Jita is called Jita in all languages, a Rifter is a Rifter is a Rifter (and is awesome)

We have the same concerns about having people in different languages not knowing what other people are saying. Our main hope is that our players will know what is going on and understand, as well as be able to communicate to each other.

CCP Sisyphus | Team TriLambda | Team Klang | @CCP_Sisyphus

CCP Shiny
C C P
C C P Alliance
#37 - 2011-11-25 16:33:47 UTC
Rakshasa Taisab wrote:
Quote:
pronunciation (in Japanese, used for sorting)


WTF do you mean by 'sorting'?

I have never come across that term when it comes to Japanese grammar.


Hi, this is about the way code handles the different alphabets living next to each other. You can find some very interesting info here.

CCP Shiny \ Producer NES Localization Services \ @ccp_shiny

SilentSkills
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2011-11-25 16:34:23 UTC
cool story bro, tl dl?
Knug LiDi
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#39 - 2011-11-25 16:34:28 UTC
Letrange wrote:

so someone would for example type in chat:

does anyone have 6 x Neutron Blaster I

but hitting tab after things that auto translate as you type it would end up like:

does (anyone) (have) 6 x (Neutron Blaster I) ?

on the english client and if there was a french client looking at the same chat channel it would look like:

does (n'importe qui) (avoir) 6 x (Fusil a Neutron I) ?



Combine this with EVE voice - so I can swear in English and have it properly translated to be heard in Swedish and Dutch.



If only we could fall into a woman's arms

without falling into her hands

CCP Ronin
C C P
C C P Alliance
#40 - 2011-11-25 16:40:11 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Ronin
Zagdul wrote:
I understand the reason you're doing this as it makes EVE more accessible to people around the world thus opening up a wider player base. I don't knock that and think it's a good idea for you as a company to stay competitive with the type of game you've build and to help it grow.

However, I think it may be a bad idea for a few reasons. I really enjoy the fact that in just my alliance I have people from many different parts of the world who's native tongue isn't English. It's fun to learn about their cultures and they enjoy learning about ours, or yours. This new push will further dampen that abliity to happen.

Another issue I see arising is calling primaries for people who use their localized client but have a different language speaking Fleet Commander. In my humble opinion, you shouldn't localize the ship types for this reason alone. Most FC's will ask their fleet to sort by distance/name/type etc. and the ability to sort by these in a standardized way is pretty vital.

Even if it's localized on the client, but when sorted it follows English no matter what would be cool.


Hi Zagdul, let me reassure you that we definitely share your concerns. We are all about people from all around the world jumping in on ops together and cooperating.

Type names are not being translated for Crucible, and were that to happen in the future, there would be a lot of thought given to usability and cross-language communication. Thanks for bringing up the "Sort by type" issue, I'll make sure that's considered if types ever go through the localization process.

One cool thing that people have mentioned when discussing localization is that some fleets will operate primarily in a non-English language, but will have some bilingual FCs who will communicate with others in English and then relay everything back down to their squads. I find that kind of collaboration really cool, and that's what we mean by a system that brings more people together within the EVE experience rather than a system that walls people off.

CCP Ronin Senior Programmer -- Internationalization