Player Features and Ideas Discussion

So you are not interested in a discussion about your idea?

Fine. You should look at yourself before calling other people trolls.

+1 for the OP. I fully support and endorse this proposal. It is well thought out and concise.


Those posting in opposition are failing miserably trying to come up with reasons not to implement a suspect flag for Mission Invasion. Hell, even the term sounds aggressive :



As for ownership, the mission pocket actually belongs to the Agent who is offering it to the player. Once the player accepts the mission offer, that player is now held accountable for it. That, in all intents and purposes, makes the mission runner the owner regardless of the Sov listed in the top left corner of the screen. Usually the actual site itself doesn't spawn until the Mission Runner initiates warp.

There's only a couple of Cosmos Missions that actually spawn the site when accepted such as the 2nd mission of Cosmos Agent - Drone Mind. That mission spawned a site with a visible warp beacon on Overview which anyone could access. CCP has just recently programed that site to spawn multiple times in multiple systems all at the same time due to other players constantly completing the site causing Cosmos Mission Runners to either fail or pay exorbitant prices for the objective item. The same goes for a couple of other Cosmos Agent missions which have visible beacons in Overview.

Anyway back to topic, doesn't matter if it's a Ninja Salvager or Suicide Ganker who enters the site, it's still an invasion which is an aggressive act. Those who think Ninja Salvagers should be exempt or are trying to use that as a reason to dismiss the OP's proposal need to seriously do some research on the terms used :



A true Ninja Salvager would never be seen by the Mission Runner. As such a Suspect Flag wouldn't matter. Most of the so called 'Ninja Salvagers' in this game now are nothing more than Mission Invaders. They obviously aren't very Ninja like at all and have no problem taking loot to get flagged in order to provoke PvP action. So the Suspect Flag is again not a problem.

As for new players, the safety system is set to full (green) right from the start. They wouldn't be able to warp to the site since that would be a suspect action, thus there wouldn't be any accidents happening. All players have the option to change their safety settings from Full (green) to allow suspect acts (yellow) or to perform criminal acts (red). If they do so, ignorance of consequences for those actions can not be used as an excuse.


DMC

They can despawn all the mission items/structures by failing or finishing the mission. Unless of course someone is on grid with them.

You seem to be confusing space with mission items/structures.

What have POS's got to do with anything? Who owns the space the POS is in is in the system info top left of screen. Or are you saying if you warp on grid with a POS you should go suspect?


The same way you get to any point in space. Its the mission structures/items you can't get to until the missioner undocks and warps to the location.


NO its not. Its proof that the game recognizes that the wrecks are owned by the missioner, but not the salvage.


Its the structures/items that are despawned(destroyed). The location remains.

You are getting the location in space confused with the items that are in that space. Which is why having people go suspect just for entering a location is a bad idea.

Now who doesn't want to discuss? Answer the questions and offer some proof to back up your opinions.

1) The proof is top left of the screeen.
2) The proof is I have safespots in location where missions occurred and the mission is no longer there but the safespot is.
3) The proof is shown on the wrecks and on the overview.
4) The proof is if a missioner despawns the items/structures with another pilot on the grid. The Structures/items do not despawn and any bookmarks still work.

Stop confusing to different things.

Mission items/structures are not the same thing as a location in space. Its an important distinction when you want people to go suspect when the warp to a location.

Once again your confusing mission items/structures with the location. That is a very important distinction to make when proposing giving players a suspect flag for warping to a location.

Even putting aside your flawed idea of ownership. Having people go suspect for warping to a location is a bad idea.

Salvaging is a profession CCP designed so you did not get any flags for doing. Your idea would effect them greatly.
I'm hunting a war target, I see them undock and warp to a safe. After scanning them down I warp my fleet to them only to find they were the other Vargur and the whole fleet goes suspect.

Having suspect flags based on warping to a location is a bad idea.

You really don't understand the idea or are deliberately thread crapping.

Another Princess Achaja alt?

This suggestion does not criminalize salvaging at all. It only makes mission invasion/trespassing a suspicious act. Salvaging wrecks would not be criminal or suspicious at all. But, choosing to invade the missioner's site without permission to get that salvage would be a "suspcious act" and you would be flagged if you choose to do it (again without permission).

If CCP intended for salvagers to have 0 risk in salvaging, they would be immune to attack in all areas while they salvaged. It's legal to salvage wrecks in WH, Low and Null space, but doing so carries a certain amount of risk due to the location choice. The fact that salvagers can be attacked while salvaging in these locations is proof that CCP does not have the intention of making the choice to salvage risk free.

A suspect flag for trespassing just puts the decision to salvage in a mission owner's pocket without permission on par with the decision to salvage in WH, Low Sec or Null Sec space. They are never forced to go into any of these areas to salvage nor are they prevented. If the salvager chooses to enter these areas or invade a mission owner's space because the reward (ISK value of salvage) is higher, there is nothing wrong with it carrying a slightly higher level of risk.

In the end, the innocent salvager will only need to contact the missioner to get permission to salvage the site. The salvage thief/griefer gets the flag. If the site is empty/vacant/abandoned, the risk to any of them is almost zero.

An unintended bonus of adding a suspect flag for trespassing may be that it creates the opportunity for salvaging players to experience the risk/excitement associated with salvaging in high risk/high reward areas like WH, Low and Null without actually exposing them to the full risk of being in those areas....



You have committed what is defined in RL as "trespassing" and it is a crime because you did so without the owner's permission.

For clarity: IRL you cannot legally go into my house without permission to get a drink of water, even though getting a drink of water is legal.

In-game terms: salvaging is legal and remains so... choosing to trespass/invade a missioner's pocket without permission is suspicious.

I am asking that CCP correctly identify the act of trespassing/invasion into a mission owner's space as a suspicious act and generate the appropriate suspect flag.

Sorry for confusing you by crossing RL terms and game terms.


TLDR

Salvaging is and always will be a legal act.

The chosen locations will carry risk.

If a suspect flag is generated for tespassing/mission invasion, choosing a missioner's space as the location for salvaging would just have the same risk as choosing to salvage in any other area with a higher risk/reward equation (WH, Low, Null).

...

Having people go suspect for warping to a location is a bad idea.

Salvaging is a profession CCP designed so you did not get any flags for doing. Your idea would effect them greatly.
I'm hunting a war target, I see them undock and warp to a safe. After scanning them down I warp my fleet to them only to find they were the other Vargur and the whole fleet goes suspect.

Having suspect flags based on warping to a location is a bad idea.