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Add a Suspect Flag for Mission Invasion

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Abdul 'aleem
Sumiko Yoshida Corporation
#241 - 2014-01-27 10:44:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Abdul 'aleem
Riot Girl wrote:
I have this kind of thing where I like to destroy people's arguments and see what kind of reaction I get from them.

Usually, people respond with immature coping mechanisms.

The 'I'm too important to waste time on the forums' coping mechanism - When you win an argument and the other person ignores your post and abandons the thread. This method is popular with people who don;t want to admit they are wrong, while giving the impression their lives are far too interesting to waste time arguing on forums.

The 'I know I've lost but I'm taking you down with me' coping mechanism - When someone loses an argument and knows they've lost but decides to sling as much mud at you as possible as a way to soften their own humiliation by trying to bring you down to their level.

The 'I refuse to admit I've lost so I'm going to stubbornly continue my argument' coping mechanism - This is when someone loses an argument, knows they've lost, but refuses to believe it. They will continue to argue vehemently, search for any scrap of bad evidence that will support their argument and resort to any available tactic that allows them to convince themselves they haven't lost yet. This person will usually argue until everyone gets bored and then they can tell themselves they won, but they're only lying to themselves.

The last one is the one I like best, which is just when someone acts in a civil manner, admits when they are wrong or apologises for their own lack of understanding and they lose the argument gracefully. They keep their dignity intact and earn the respect of those they are arguing with.

Right now, I'm guessing you're going to be the 'I refuse to admit I've lost so I'm going to stubbornly continue my argument' guy.



You are really very funny.... desperate, but funny.

The ability for everyone and their allies to legally counter-gank mission invaders... yes please. Add a Suspect Flag for Mission Invasion

Click "like" in the original post to support it.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#242 - 2014-01-27 10:48:36 UTC
Yeah that was just a reply to your comment about keeping your thread bumped. I thought it would be nice to explain to you why I don't care about that.

Oh god.
Archibald Thistlewaite III
The Royal Society for the Prevention of Miners
#243 - 2014-01-27 11:43:39 UTC
You seem to be basing the rationale behind your idea on the fact the Missioner owns the space and anyone who enters is trespassing and therefore should be suspect.

This is wrong.

The space you run the mission in is always there. That mission you are just about to accept? The space it takes place in is already there. The owner of that space is the NPC who owns the system.

What is spawned for the player are the mission structures, acceleration gates and npc rats. So if you wish to claim ownership that is what you 'own'.

Now before you claim 'ownership' of the acceleration gates and say anyone who uses it without my permission (being in fleet with me) should go suspect for using 'my' acceleration gate, please be aware that the acceleration gates for hisec annoms are only spawned the first time someone warps to them. So if you own the mission acceleration gates, then I own all annom acceleration gates I was the first to warp to.

Anyone one who warps there afterward would go suspect for using 'my' acceleration gate.

I also believe wormholes don't spawn until someone firsts warps to them? If that is true then all users of wormhole should also go suspect if they aren't the owners.

See how silly it would get.

User of 'Bumblefck's Luscious & Luminous Mustachio Wax'
Abdul 'aleem
Sumiko Yoshida Corporation
#244 - 2014-01-27 11:44:41 UTC
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:
You seem to be basing the rationale behind your idea on the fact the Missioner owns the space and anyone who enters is trespassing and therefore should be suspect.

This is wrong.

The space you run the mission in is always there. That mission you are just about to accept? The space it takes place in is already there. The owner of that space is the NPC who owns the system.





Read the original post all the proofs are there.

The ability for everyone and their allies to legally counter-gank mission invaders... yes please. Add a Suspect Flag for Mission Invasion

Click "like" in the original post to support it.
Archibald Thistlewaite III
The Royal Society for the Prevention of Miners
#245 - 2014-01-27 11:45:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Archibald Thistlewaite III
Abdul 'aleem wrote:
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:
You seem to be basing the rationale behind your idea on the fact the Missioner owns the space and anyone who enters is trespassing and therefore should be suspect.

This is wrong.

The space you run the mission in is always there. That mission you are just about to accept? The space it takes place in is already there. The owner of that space is the NPC who owns the system.





Read the original post all the proofs are there.


I have and you are wrong.

The mission space is not created. The mission items are.

User of 'Bumblefck's Luscious & Luminous Mustachio Wax'
Abdul 'aleem
Sumiko Yoshida Corporation
#246 - 2014-01-27 11:46:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Abdul 'aleem
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:
Abdul 'aleem wrote:
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:
You seem to be basing the rationale behind your idea on the fact the Missioner owns the space and anyone who enters is trespassing and therefore should be suspect.

This is wrong.

The space you run the mission in is always there. That mission you are just about to accept? The space it takes place in is already there. The owner of that space is the NPC who owns the system.





Read the original post all the proofs are there.


I have and you are wrong.



Many others disagree with you but thanks for your opinion.

Here's one proof:

Abdul 'aleem wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:


if anything makes a mission belong to the mission acceptor its the fact that no matter who kills the NPC's the wrecks belong to the mission acceptor and his fleet. THAT god awful mechanic is the strongest argument that mission space is owned.




Thanks for helping prove my point that the missioner owns the mission pocket.


Thanks again Daichi Yamato!

The ability for everyone and their allies to legally counter-gank mission invaders... yes please. Add a Suspect Flag for Mission Invasion

Click "like" in the original post to support it.
Archibald Thistlewaite III
The Royal Society for the Prevention of Miners
#247 - 2014-01-27 11:52:29 UTC
That would be the first time anyone has explained it to you like that. So only you disagree with me.

When you make a bookmark whilst running a mission and then finish the mission you can return to the space and see that all the mission structures have despawned. Yet the space the mission took place in is still there.

Your whole presumption of 'ownership' is flawed.

User of 'Bumblefck's Luscious & Luminous Mustachio Wax'
Abdul 'aleem
Sumiko Yoshida Corporation
#248 - 2014-01-27 11:55:16 UTC
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:


Your whole presumption of 'ownership' is flawed.



Yeah, thanks for your opinion. But, you're wrong as Diachi Yamato helps to prove.

This has already been discussed and proven.

If you have any new counters to the proofs listed in the original post, feel free to post them.

The ability for everyone and their allies to legally counter-gank mission invaders... yes please. Add a Suspect Flag for Mission Invasion

Click "like" in the original post to support it.
Archibald Thistlewaite III
The Royal Society for the Prevention of Miners
#249 - 2014-01-27 11:55:56 UTC
Abdul 'aleem wrote:



Here's one proof:

Abdul 'aleem wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:


if anything makes a mission belong to the mission acceptor its the fact that no matter who kills the NPC's the wrecks belong to the mission acceptor and his fleet. THAT god awful mechanic is the strongest argument that mission space is owned.




Thanks for helping prove my point that the missioner owns the mission pocket.


Thanks again Daichi Yamato (known ganker/griefer/"pirate" and/or thief)!


Yes, NPC's are owned and if someone steals from a wreck they go suspect.

Whats that got to do with the space the mission is run in. It exists before the rat was spawned for you and it exists after the rat has died and been salvaged and looted.

User of 'Bumblefck's Luscious & Luminous Mustachio Wax'
Abdul 'aleem
Sumiko Yoshida Corporation
#250 - 2014-01-27 11:57:33 UTC
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:
Abdul 'aleem wrote:



Here's one proof:

Abdul 'aleem wrote:
Daichi Yamato wrote:


if anything makes a mission belong to the mission acceptor its the fact that no matter who kills the NPC's the wrecks belong to the mission acceptor and his fleet. THAT god awful mechanic is the strongest argument that mission space is owned.




Thanks for helping prove my point that the missioner owns the mission pocket.


Thanks again Daichi Yamato (known ganker/griefer/"pirate" and/or thief)!


Yes, NPC's are owned and if someone steals from a wreck they go suspect.

Whats that got to do with the space the mission is run in. It exists before the rat was spawned for you and it exists after the rat has died and been salvaged and looted.



If you cannot understand what has already been posted, I don't think that you ever will.

The ability for everyone and their allies to legally counter-gank mission invaders... yes please. Add a Suspect Flag for Mission Invasion

Click "like" in the original post to support it.
Archibald Thistlewaite III
The Royal Society for the Prevention of Miners
#251 - 2014-01-27 11:57:45 UTC
Abdul 'aleem wrote:
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:


Your whole presumption of 'ownership' is flawed.



Yeah, thanks for your opinion. But, you're wrong as Diachi Yamato helps to prove.

This has already been discussed and proven.

If you have any new counters to the proofs listed in the original post, feel free to post them.


If you read the whole post, you'll see I've just disproved it.

You are wrong. Sorry you don't like that.

User of 'Bumblefck's Luscious & Luminous Mustachio Wax'
Abdul 'aleem
Sumiko Yoshida Corporation
#252 - 2014-01-27 11:58:18 UTC
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:
Abdul 'aleem wrote:
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:


Your whole presumption of 'ownership' is flawed.



Yeah, thanks for your opinion. But, you're wrong as Diachi Yamato helps to prove.

This has already been discussed and proven.

If you have any new counters to the proofs listed in the original post, feel free to post them.


If you read the whole post, you'll see I've just disproved it.

You are wrong. Sorry you don't like that.



Yeah you really have not.

The ability for everyone and their allies to legally counter-gank mission invaders... yes please. Add a Suspect Flag for Mission Invasion

Click "like" in the original post to support it.
Archibald Thistlewaite III
The Royal Society for the Prevention of Miners
#253 - 2014-01-27 12:03:59 UTC
Abdul 'aleem wrote:
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:
Abdul 'aleem wrote:
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:


Your whole presumption of 'ownership' is flawed.



Yeah, thanks for your opinion. But, you're wrong as Diachi Yamato helps to prove.

This has already been discussed and proven.

If you have any new counters to the proofs listed in the original post, feel free to post them.


If you read the whole post, you'll see I've just disproved it.

You are wrong. Sorry you don't like that.



Yeah you really have not.


Yes I have.

The mission pocket is always there, only mission items and structures are spawned for the player when the mission is warped to.

I wonder if its possible to have a mission spawn on top of a bookmark some one has already made?

You want people to go suspect for warping to an area of space because you own it and they are trespassing. That space was there long before you accepted the mission.

User of 'Bumblefck's Luscious & Luminous Mustachio Wax'
Abdul 'aleem
Sumiko Yoshida Corporation
#254 - 2014-01-27 12:07:10 UTC
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:
Abdul 'aleem wrote:
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:
Abdul 'aleem wrote:
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:


Your whole presumption of 'ownership' is flawed.



Yeah, thanks for your opinion. But, you're wrong as Diachi Yamato helps to prove.

This has already been discussed and proven.

If you have any new counters to the proofs listed in the original post, feel free to post them.


If you read the whole post, you'll see I've just disproved it.

You are wrong. Sorry you don't like that.



Yeah you really have not.


Yes I have.

The mission pocket is always there, only mission items and structures are spawned for the player when the mission is warped to.

I wonder if its possible to have a mission spawn on top of a bookmark some one has already made?

You want people to go suspect for warping to an area of space because you own it and they are trespassing. That space was there long before you accepted the mission.



*sigh*

Here we go again folks.... sorry for feeding the trolls/ thread crappers.

There are four proofs, did you read them all?

The ability for everyone and their allies to legally counter-gank mission invaders... yes please. Add a Suspect Flag for Mission Invasion

Click "like" in the original post to support it.
Archibald Thistlewaite III
The Royal Society for the Prevention of Miners
#255 - 2014-01-27 12:12:34 UTC
Yes, I have read the whole thread.

You're wrong.

I have pointed out why you are wrong. Using your 'proofs' you can only claim ownership of the mission structures and items, yet you want to claim ownership of the space.

That space is always there, some of my best safe spots were originally missions. That space still exists even though the mission does not.

User of 'Bumblefck's Luscious & Luminous Mustachio Wax'
Abdul 'aleem
Sumiko Yoshida Corporation
#256 - 2014-01-27 12:13:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Abdul 'aleem
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:
Yes, I have read the whole thread.

You're wrong.

I have pointed out why you are wrong. Using your 'proofs' you can only claim ownership of the mission structures and items, yet you want to claim ownership of the space.

That space is always there, some of my best safe spots were originally missions. That space still exists even though the mission does not.




I am suggesting that CCP treat the mission pocket space assigned to and created for the missioner, especially COSMOS and other unique mission pockets, as belonging to the missioner. The following game mechanics support the claim that the mission pocket does in fact belong to the missioner and validate the suggestion that they be treated as such:

1) The mission pocket space is created as a result of private and individual interaction between the player and their mission agent for the purpose of that player completing an assigned task

2) it is impossible for any player to access a mission pocket owned by another player without action from the owner (the player can exercise his ownership rights to deny access to his mission site by simply staying docked, among other things)

3) the game assigns ownership of all wrecks in the mission space to the missioner and his fleet regardless of who kills them

4) the player owning the mission site can exercise their right of ownership to destroy the site by simply choosing the "fail" option available exclusively to them


Which don't you understand?

The ability for everyone and their allies to legally counter-gank mission invaders... yes please. Add a Suspect Flag for Mission Invasion

Click "like" in the original post to support it.
Archibald Thistlewaite III
The Royal Society for the Prevention of Miners
#257 - 2014-01-27 12:13:56 UTC
Abdul 'aleem wrote:




*sigh*

Here we go again folks.... sorry for feeding the trolls/ thread crappers.

There are four proofs, did you read them all?


I thought you wanted a discussion?

I have come here with a sensible counter to your argument and you start name calling.

User of 'Bumblefck's Luscious & Luminous Mustachio Wax'
Abdul 'aleem
Sumiko Yoshida Corporation
#258 - 2014-01-27 12:14:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Abdul 'aleem
Abdul 'aleem wrote:
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:
Yes, I have read the whole thread.

You're wrong.

I have pointed out why you are wrong. Using your 'proofs' you can only claim ownership of the mission structures and items, yet you want to claim ownership of the space.

That space is always there, some of my best safe spots were originally missions. That space still exists even though the mission does not.




I am suggesting that CCP treat the mission pocket space assigned to and created for the missioner, especially COSMOS and other unique mission pockets, as belonging to the missioner. The following game mechanics support the claim that the mission pocket does in fact belong to the missioner and validate the suggestion that they be treated as such:

1) The mission pocket space is created as a result of private and individual interaction between the player and their mission agent for the purpose of that player completing an assigned task

2) it is impossible for any player to access a mission pocket owned by another player without action from the owner (the player can exercise his ownership rights to deny access to his mission site by simply staying docked, among other things)

3) the game assigns ownership of all wrecks in the mission space to the missioner and his fleet regardless of who kills them

4) the player owning the mission site can exercise their right of ownership to destroy the site by simply choosing the "fail" option available exclusively to them


Which don't you understand?



re-posted because you may have missed it.

The ability for everyone and their allies to legally counter-gank mission invaders... yes please. Add a Suspect Flag for Mission Invasion

Click "like" in the original post to support it.
Archibald Thistlewaite III
The Royal Society for the Prevention of Miners
#259 - 2014-01-27 12:20:39 UTC  |  Edited by: Archibald Thistlewaite III
Abdul 'aleem wrote:



I am suggesting that CCP treat the mission pocket space assigned to and created for the missioner, especially COSMOS and other unique mission pockets, as belonging to the missioner. The following game mechanics support the claim that the mission pocket does in fact belong to the missioner and validate the suggestion that they be treated as such:

1) The mission pocket space is created as a result of private and individual interaction between the player and their mission agent for the purpose of that player completing an assigned task


That is wrong the space is always there, its the mission items/structures that are created for the player.

Abdul 'aleem wrote:

2) it is impossible for any player to access a mission pocket owned by another player without action from the owner (the player can exercise his ownership rights to deny access to his mission site by simply staying docked, among other things)

Yes they can, a player can access any area of the solar system which a mission can spawn in. Its the mission items/structures they can't access.

Abdul 'aleem wrote:

3) the game assigns ownership of all wrecks in the mission space to the missioner and his fleet regardless of who kills them


Yes. Any player stealing form the mission runner should and does go suspect.

Abdul 'aleem wrote:

4) the player owning the mission site can exercise their right of ownership to destroy the site by simply choosing the "fail" option available exclusively to them


They can despawn all the mission items/structures by failing or finishing the mission. Unless of course someone is on grid with them. Edit- by them I mean the structures/items.


Abdul 'aleem wrote:

Which don't you understand?



You seem to be confusing space with mission items/structures.

User of 'Bumblefck's Luscious & Luminous Mustachio Wax'
Abdul 'aleem
Sumiko Yoshida Corporation
#260 - 2014-01-27 12:23:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Abdul 'aleem
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:
Abdul 'aleem wrote:



I am suggesting that CCP treat the mission pocket space assigned to and created for the missioner, especially COSMOS and other unique mission pockets, as belonging to the missioner. The following game mechanics support the claim that the mission pocket does in fact belong to the missioner and validate the suggestion that they be treated as such:

1) The mission pocket space is created as a result of private and individual interaction between the player and their mission agent for the purpose of that player completing an assigned task


That is wrong the space is always there, its the mission items/structures that are created for the player.

Abdul 'aleem wrote:

2) it is impossible for any player to access a mission pocket owned by another player without action from the owner (the player can exercise his ownership rights to deny access to his mission site by simply staying docked, among other things)

Yes they can, a player can access any area of the solar system which a mission can spawn in. Its the mission items/structures they can't access.

Abdul 'aleem wrote:

3) the game assigns ownership of all wrecks in the mission space to the missioner and his fleet regardless of who kills them


Yes. Any player stealing form the mission runner should and does go suspect.

Abdul 'aleem wrote:

4) the player owning the mission site can exercise their right of ownership to destroy the site by simply choosing the "fail" option available exclusively to them


They can despawn all the mission items/structures by failing or finishing the mission. Unless of course someone is on grid with them.

You seem to be confusing space with mission items/structures.



I think everyone understands your arguments.

We can agree to disagree.

The ability for everyone and their allies to legally counter-gank mission invaders... yes please. Add a Suspect Flag for Mission Invasion

Click "like" in the original post to support it.