These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page12
 

AWOX'ing boot mechanic
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
PsychoTroop
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#21 - 2014-01-27 08:22:48 UTC  |  Edited by: PsychoTroop
The point of using fleet to validate a 2nd militia member's entry is to give some local accountability. AWOXers have mastered the range of exploits. If they have to be in your fleet to jump into your plex then they can be kicked out of your fleet - or better yet just blackballed on a master list. As it is now AWOXers still show as militia members, still mess up your faction when you respond to their griefing.

Far as the 'how does anyone get in if they have to be part of your fleet question': if they're a member of your militia they would have to be part of your fleet. Actual opponents could still enter.
Hesod Adee
Perkone
Caldari State
#22 - 2014-01-27 09:06:25 UTC
I've got a couple of kills by noticing a friendly militia member fighting an enemy in a plex and warping in to help. Sometimes the friendly pilot would have soloed the fight, sometimes not. There is no way to tell before I go in, so I enter the plex to kill the war target/pirate. If both of us survive the fight against the mutual enemy, I leave.

However, if only fleet members can get in without permission from the friendly militia member inside the plex, then assisting them will not be possible. So that isn't a useful solution.

Riot Girl wrote:
Hesod Adee wrote:
Locking them up and asking them to leave usually gets them to leave.

Sounds like the only AWOXer is you. Either way, it doesn't matter. It's not AWOXing, it's just low-sec PvP which is what you signed up for so quit crying about it.

I signed up for PvP. I did not sign up for someone who claims to be my ally to contribute almost nothing towards finishing the plex and take half the reward. So I make it clear that they can either leave, or they can have PvP.

War Targets get the same choice. Though I assume that me showing up as a war target in local makes that clear enough for them.
As for non-militia pilots, the only reasons they have for entering a FW plex is either looking for PvP or because they don't know about plexes. If it's the first, shooting them gives them what they want. If the second, shooting them should get them asking the right questions.
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#23 - 2014-01-27 10:23:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Zan Shiro
Riot Girl wrote:
Exploited mechanics
Sociopaths
Player interaction
Tears

Perfect thread 10/10.



more like a 9.

It do not lead off with I don't know if this has ever been thought of before but here it goes....or something like that. That is like the SOP lead off for stuff like this.


Thread confuses me...someone clear up for me,please.

FW for months has whined its too easy and warp stabbed cloaked frigates flown by 1 week noobs can do it.
To me that then sounds like a pvp fit ship should be able to do as well.
So why not just bring a pvp ship into the plex and if someone wants to go blue on blue....well then give back as good or if not better than what you are getting.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#24 - 2014-01-27 10:26:21 UTC
Hesod Adee wrote:
I did not sign up for someone who claims to be my ally to contribute almost nothing towards finishing the plex and take half the reward. So I make it clear that they can either leave, or they can have PvP.

I don't think they ever claimed to be your ally, but if they did, then you should be happy to share your reward with them. After all, you're only making them stronger, which in turn, makes your militia stronger. Of course, that's all garbage because, as I said, they never claimed to be your ally. The only reason they're in your militia is because of the character they made when they started playing. It's not like they have a choice and so there is no reason to pretend.

Oh god.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#25 - 2014-01-27 10:32:35 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:

I don't think they ever claimed to be your ally, but if they did, then you should be happy to share your reward with them. After all, you're only making them stronger, which in turn, makes your militia stronger. Of course, that's all garbage because, as I said, they never claimed to be your ally. The only reason they're in your militia is because of the character they made when they started playing. It's not like they have a choice and so there is no reason to pretend.

Uh, wtf are you on and can I have some.
You totally have a choice about what corp to be in to do FW.
And they totally made the choice to be in the NPC FW corp. Not a personal corp in FW or one of the many that are involved on each side.
Riot Girl
You'll Cowards Don't Even Smoke Crack
#26 - 2014-01-27 10:47:01 UTC
Right. If they're not in an NPC corp, then why is this a problem?

Oh god.
Seranova Farreach
Biomass Negative
#27 - 2014-01-27 11:38:28 UTC
PsychoTroop wrote:
AWOXers - people who attack their own faction or side in FW wars by using various exploits - face nearly 0 penalties. They are usually experienced sociopaths who know how to **** people off enough to attack them (jump into their plex, crawl under their range, target them) while exploiting the game's mechanic designed to prevent AWOXing - the attacking party, who now has some wretched prick poking him in his armpit - takes the faction hit for attacking the irritant. AWOXers are usually older players who know exactly how to do this, who to do it to (usually, newer players).

So I recommend this mechanic: unless you're in a fleet with someone on your side they can't enter a plex you have entered before them. It would just block them out.


if people drop to -2 with their FW they get kicked out of militia iirc. not sure about fw corps though.

[u]___________________ http://i.imgur.com/d9Ee2ik.jpg[/u]
PsychoTroop
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#28 - 2014-01-28 05:26:09 UTC  |  Edited by: PsychoTroop
Seranova Farreach wrote:
PsychoTroop wrote:
AWOXers - people who attack their own faction or side in FW wars by using various exploits - face nearly 0 penalties. They are usually experienced sociopaths who know how to **** people off enough to attack them (jump into their plex, crawl under their range, target them) while exploiting the game's mechanic designed to prevent AWOXing - the attacking party, who now has some wretched prick poking him in his armpit - takes the faction hit for attacking the irritant. AWOXers are usually older players who know exactly how to do this, who to do it to (usually, newer players).

So I recommend this mechanic: unless you're in a fleet with someone on your side they can't enter a plex you have entered before them. It would just block them out.


if people drop to -2 with their FW they get kicked out of militia iirc. not sure about fw corps though.



And since most AWOXers are cynical veterans they don't take faction dings. They irritate someone - preferably new - until that person attacks them. Or they surprise someone and act like they're going to attack so the other person counters and that other person takes the faction ding. Or they switch back and forth between orgs to wipe their slate.

The guys who AWOX are seriously messed up. True sociopaths. Messing with sided warfare and any presumption of honor just floats their boat and puts a spring in their screwed up step. Present mechanics encourage this. Whatever the mechanic is they've figured it out. They really have no life and griefing their own side seems like justice to them. By making local fleet mandatory for jumping into someone else's plex you at least make it real time and interpersonal.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#29 - 2014-01-28 06:14:07 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
Seranova Farreach wrote:
PsychoTroop wrote:
AWOXers - people who attack their own faction or side in FW wars by using various exploits - face nearly 0 penalties. They are usually experienced sociopaths who know how to **** people off enough to attack them (jump into their plex, crawl under their range, target them) while exploiting the game's mechanic designed to prevent AWOXing - the attacking party, who now has some wretched prick poking him in his armpit - takes the faction hit for attacking the irritant. AWOXers are usually older players who know exactly how to do this, who to do it to (usually, newer players).

So I recommend this mechanic: unless you're in a fleet with someone on your side they can't enter a plex you have entered before them. It would just block them out.


if people drop to -2 with their FW they get kicked out of militia iirc. not sure about fw corps though.

In corporations the standings are combined and averaged. In alliances, that combined standing is averaged with those of all the other corporations in it.

Generally, you have FW corps and alliances with almost perfect standings peppered with people who have very bad standings. As long as the average standings of the corporation/alliance stays above 0.05 it can stay in the militia.

And yes... even veterans take standings hits for killing their own militia members. So it's not something that many people will get into the habit of doing unless they don't care about staying in the militia.



As far as what the OP is talking about...
The idea he is proposing will do more harm than anything else as it will disallow friendly gangs/fleets from assisting each other at the drop of a hat (which is quite often).
NOTE: FW corporations and alliances typically like their independence and often dislike working too closely with others... even if they are friendly. They will work together if they must... but when they can, they will operate on their own. And I like it this way because it makes things "colorful."


edit:
There is one semi-famous AWOXer that I think the OP is talking about. I forget his name, but he jumps from alt corp to alt corp in each militia and kills friendlies. His standings with all factions are atrocious and the only way he gets away with it is because when a person joins a corporation their standings are not factored in until 7 days after joining. When that happens, he joins another alt FW corp and continues the cycle.
This man is generally the exception rather than a rule.

How did you Veterans start?
Daandrah
State War Academy
Caldari State
#30 - 2014-01-28 06:41:42 UTC
Xe'Cara'eos wrote:
FW plex rewards ought to be based on time spent and distance to the button - nearer to button: more reward, longer in complex: more reward



+1 for this reply, great idea.
PsychoTroop
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#31 - 2014-01-28 18:41:13 UTC  |  Edited by: PsychoTroop
ShahFluffers wrote:
Seranova Farreach wrote:
PsychoTroop wrote:
AWOXers - people who attack their own faction or side in FW wars by using various exploits - face nearly 0 penalties. They are usually experienced sociopaths who know how to **** people off enough to attack them (jump into their plex, crawl under their range, target them) while exploiting the game's mechanic designed to prevent AWOXing - the attacking party, who now has some wretched prick poking him in his armpit - takes the faction hit for attacking the irritant. AWOXers are usually older players who know exactly how to do this, who to do it to (usually, newer players).

So I recommend this mechanic: unless you're in a fleet with someone on your side they can't enter a plex you have entered before them. It would just block them out.


if people drop to -2 with their FW they get kicked out of militia iirc. not sure about fw corps though.

In corporations the standings are combined and averaged. In alliances, that combined standing is averaged with those of all the other corporations in it.

Generally, you have FW corps and alliances with almost perfect standings peppered with people who have very bad standings. As long as the average standings of the corporation/alliance stays above 0.05 it can stay in the militia.

And yes... even veterans take standings hits for killing their own militia members. So it's not something that many people will get into the habit of doing unless they don't care about staying in the militia.



As far as what the OP is talking about...
The idea he is proposing will do more harm than anything else as it will disallow friendly gangs/fleets from assisting each other at the drop of a hat (which is quite often).
NOTE: FW corporations and alliances typically like their independence and often dislike working too closely with others... even if they are friendly. They will work together if they must... but when they can, they will operate on their own. And I like it this way because it makes things "colorful."


edit:
There is one semi-famous AWOXer that I think the OP is talking about. I forget his name, but he jumps from alt corp to alt corp in each militia and kills friendlies. His standings with all factions are atrocious and the only way he gets away with it is because when a person joins a corporation their standings are not factored in until 7 days after joining. When that happens, he joins another alt FW corp and continues the cycle.
This man is generally the exception rather than a rule.


In the roughly year and a half that I've been involved in FW I have never had someone jump into my plex who stayed (to help, I've had some help the attackers) when a fight began. On the other hand I've had plenty of uninvited people jump in right before it flipped. I've had plenty of people jump in, target lock me and release a flurry of drones. I have never received help from anyone outside my fleet and usually even that comes too late to help. Most FW fights are over within seconds. That's one of the things AWOXers exploit - they don't con red but they're acting like they're going to attack. You have like 2.5 seconds to decide what to do. You attack, you take the faction ding.

You're also fighting a sociopathic veteran who lives for nothing but precisely that fight in that situation so you've already lost... he was using your uncertainty to get into range, under your guns, into neut range, whatever. I can understand why the game, in its efforts to remain free, would like to remain open ended. Fair enough. But it shouldn't encourage the perpetually maladjusted. FW is supposed to be PVP with some rules. Let local fleets enforce them.
Anya Klibor
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2014-01-28 18:45:10 UTC
PsychoTroop wrote:
AWOXers - people who attack their own faction or side in FW wars by using various exploits - face nearly 0 penalties. They are usually experienced sociopaths who know how to **** people off enough to attack them (jump into their plex, crawl under their range, target them) while exploiting the game's mechanic designed to prevent AWOXing - the attacking party, who now has some wretched prick poking him in his armpit - takes the faction hit for attacking the irritant. AWOXers are usually older players who know exactly how to do this, who to do it to (usually, newer players).

So I recommend this mechanic: unless you're in a fleet with someone on your side they can't enter a plex you have entered before them. It would just block them out.


Hey, if you engage me first, that doesn't make me the AWOXer! That makes you the dirty traitor to the cause and you should be excised like the cancerous carebear tumor you are!

Leadership is something you learn. Maybe one day, you'll learn that.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#33 - 2014-01-28 19:20:39 UTC
PsychoTroop wrote:



And since most AWOXers are cynical veterans they don't take faction dings. They irritate someone - preferably new - until that person attacks them. Or they surprise someone and act like they're going to attack so the other person counters and that other person takes the faction ding. Or they switch back and forth between orgs to wipe their slate.

The guys who AWOX are seriously messed up. True sociopaths. Messing with sided warfare and any presumption of honor just floats their boat and puts a spring in their screwed up step. Present mechanics encourage this. Whatever the mechanic is they've figured it out. They really have no life and griefing their own side seems like justice to them. By making local fleet mandatory for jumping into someone else's plex you at least make it real time and interpersonal.




That's still not AWOXing in any way, shape or form. It's theft at best.

Nor is it sociopathy. Or griefing. or any of the other names you're calling people.

I think you need to talk to a psychiatrist.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#34 - 2014-01-28 19:26:55 UTC
ITT: we call people sociopaths for doing things we don't like.

PsychoTroop wrote:
AWOXers - people who attack their own faction or side in FW wars by using various exploits - face nearly 0 penalties. They are usually experienced sociopaths who know how to **** people off enough to attack them (jump into their plex, crawl under their range, target them) while exploiting the game's mechanic designed to prevent AWOXing - the attacking party, who now has some wretched prick poking him in his armpit - takes the faction hit for attacking the irritant. AWOXers are usually older players who know exactly how to do this, who to do it to (usually, newer players).


Seriously, yes FW awoxers use game mechanics intended to punish awoxers to protect themselves while awoxing and also circumventing those same mechanics to suffer no consequences for awoxing. This sucks and needs a look at by CCP.

This does not make them sociopaths.

Quote:
So I recommend this mechanic: unless you're in a fleet with someone on your side they can't enter a plex you have entered before them. It would just block them out.


This is ********, sorry.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Previous page12