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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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Character training speed

Author
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#61 - 2014-01-26 18:45:47 UTC
Algebar Orion wrote:
What is Mastery Level Certificate? What is difference amongst 1-5 levels?


Certificates are guidelines on what can be useful skills to have and at what level for a certain ship / module.
The higher the level, the more efficient you can use certain things.

But they are not set in stone things to have and it's not like you MUST have them or MUST follow them to the letter. But it can help you with spotting what might be useful to train for a certain ship or module.

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Algebar Orion
#62 - 2014-01-26 20:11:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Algebar Orion
OK, here you are my latest developments:

- after two and a half days of constant training I have reached Caldari Batteship II skill so I can board all T1 Caldari warships. That was my premiere goal!
- now I abandon training skills needed to board other races ships because I will concentrate all my time and effort on training Caldari warships skills only
- thus I will try to get Mastery Certificates level 1-5 for T1 Caldari cruisers, battlecruisers and battleships
- as the core skills are very important so I will train them also altogether with MC levels

As I understand Caldari warships use predominately various missile types as their main weapons with Drones being the secondary one. Therefore those two training areas are most important to me now.

Of course my actual fits are always determined by skills I learned so far!
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#63 - 2014-01-26 21:07:04 UTC
Algebar Orion wrote:
OK, here you are my latest developments:

- after two and a half days of constant training I have reached Caldari Batteship II skill so I can board all T1 Caldari warships. That was my premiere goal!
- now I abandon training skills needed to board other races ships because I will concentrate all my time and effort on training Caldari warships skills only
- thus I will try to get Mastery Certificates level 1-5 for T1 Caldari cruisers, battlecruisers and battleships
- as the core skills are very important so I will train them also altogether with MC levels

As I understand Caldari warships use predominately various missile types as their main weapons with Drones being the secondary one. Therefore those two training areas are most important to me now.

Of course my actual fits are always determined by skills I learned so far!


All ships bigger then cruiser utilize drones.

As for weapon systems:

Amarr: Lasers, with some drones and missile ships.
Gallente: Hybrids (Blasters) and Drones
Caldari: Hybrids (Railguns) and Missiles
Minmatar: Projectiles with some missile ships.

Of course, this is general rule, nothing prevents you to fit "unusually".

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Algebar Orion
#64 - 2014-01-26 21:24:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Algebar Orion
I looked at Caldari missile skills training time to be able to fit various missile types. Now I must wait for:

- T1 heavy missiles - 10h
- T1 torpedoes - 1d 10h
- T1 cruise missiles - 5d 2h
- T2 heavy missiles - 17d 12h
- T2 torpedoes - 22d 15h
- T2 cruise missiles - 27d 17h

It is quite long journey to get T2 stuff! Are T1 weapons enough for LV 3-4 missions against AI?
Miriya Zakalwe
World Wide Welp
#65 - 2014-01-26 22:40:51 UTC
Algebar Orion wrote:
I looked at Caldari missile skills training time to be able to fit various missile types. Now I must wait for:

- T1 heavy missiles - 10h
- T1 torpedoes - 1d 10h
- T1 cruise missiles - 5d 2h
- T2 heavy missiles - 17d 12h
- T2 torpedoes - 22d 15h
- T2 cruise missiles - 27d 17h

It is quite long journey to get T2 stuff! Are T1 weapons enough for LV 3-4 missions against AI?


This is what we were all talking about above. Just being able to undock a ship is meaningless - it takes a long time to be able to actually fit one in a meaningful way :)

For most weapons I have used so far, the T1 meta 4 variant is almost as "good" stats-wise as the T2 variant with the huge exception that you cannot use T2 ammo. However you should have little trouble in most highsec L3 missions in a BC with T1 ammo and launchers. T2 ammo is pretty amazing in some cases though so you'll want it.

Meta 4 launchers ('Arbalest') are also relatively expensive right now; they went up 1M ISK in the last month or so to about 4M a pop. I usually use meta 2 or 3 as my missile skills are bad.

You can also use faction ammo for higher DPS. I always do now, but I also almost never purely PvE so it is much more important for me to maximize DPS.

Drones are another story. T1 drones are ok but T2 drones are little beasts in comparison. You'll want T2 drones. I don't have them yet (I'm kind of focused at the moment on some other skills) and I want them badly.
Algebar Orion
#66 - 2014-01-26 22:46:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Algebar Orion
I see. BTW, heavy missiles are for BC and torpedoes and cruise missiles are for BS? Also this "fraction ammo" is a bit mystery to me. Can I fire it from T1 launchers or only from fraction launchers? How it compare to T2 ammo?
Miriya Zakalwe
World Wide Welp
#67 - 2014-01-26 22:51:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Miriya Zakalwe
Algebar Orion wrote:
I see. BTW, heavy missiles are for BC and torpedoes and cruise missiles are for BS? Also this "fraction ammo" is a bit mystery to me. Can I fire it from T1 launchers or only from fraction launchers? How it compare to T2 ammo?


Generally heavy missiles, Heavy Assault missiles, and rapid lights are for cruisers and BC's, yeah. Rapid Heavies, torps and so on are for battleships. Generally. There are exceptions (stealth bombers (T2 frigates, yay!), etc).

Faction ammo works in T1 launchers, yes. It's a higher DPS variant of normal ammo.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#68 - 2014-01-26 22:54:10 UTC
Faction ammo is like tech 1 ammo but does 15% more damage and usually costs 300-500% more than base ammo.

T2 ammo is different, with extreme stat changes (example: for blasters which I know the most about, Null ammo has massive range, decent damage and truly awful tracking).

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Algebar Orion
#69 - 2014-01-26 22:55:33 UTC
Great! What are best T1 fraction heavy missiles, torps and cruise missiles? I must live with T1 weapons for a month.
Miriya Zakalwe
World Wide Welp
#70 - 2014-01-26 23:07:28 UTC
Algebar Orion wrote:
Great! What are best T1 fraction heavy missiles, torps and cruise missiles? I must live with T1 weapons for a month.


You select them by the damage type you wish to do. For example, missioning against Angel Cartel in Minmatar space, you want to do explosive damage.

Generally for faction missiles, the Caldari Navy missiles are a fine choice.

And before you cause someone's head to explode, it's faction, not fraction.
Algebar Orion
#71 - 2014-01-26 23:17:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Algebar Orion
Of course! Anyway there is a bit too much weapon types in EVE for my taste!

In short there are four types missile damage: kinetic, explosive, thermal and EM so I should always have missiles of all four types on-board just in case?
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#72 - 2014-01-26 23:38:37 UTC
Algebar Orion wrote:
I see. BTW, heavy missiles are for BC and torpedoes and cruise missiles are for BS? Also this "fraction ammo" is a bit mystery to me. Can I fire it from T1 launchers or only from fraction launchers? How it compare to T2 ammo?


T1 Launchers can fire: T1 ammo + Faction ammo
T2 Launchers can fire: T1 ammo + Faction ammo + T2 ammo.

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Algebar Orion
#73 - 2014-01-26 23:48:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Algebar Orion
In short, Caldari torpedoes are for PvP and cruise missiles for PvE?

Anyway I have to accomplish a week long training to get acceptable T1 fit for BC and BS. What?
J'Poll
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#74 - 2014-01-27 00:10:43 UTC  |  Edited by: J'Poll
Algebar Orion wrote:
In short, Caldari torpedoes are for PvP and cruise missiles for PvE?

Anyway I have to accomplish a week long training to get acceptable T1 fit for BC and BS. What?


Both Torps and Cruise missiles can be used in either PvP or PvE.

It's a matter of personal playstyle and the type of engagement you are in.


EVE is not black or white, it's all different type of grey.
EVE is not left or right, it's just going straight forward and smash all the things in the way.

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Wombat65Au Egdald
R I S E
#75 - 2014-01-27 10:43:16 UTC
Algebar Orion wrote:
Of course! Anyway there is a bit too much weapon types in EVE for my taste!

In short there are four types missile damage: kinetic, explosive, thermal and EM so I should always have missiles of all four types on-board just in case?


Time for another 2 isk worth of opinion. :)

It depends on what or who you're expecting to fight.

The game has several factions of NPC pirates, "rats" as they are commonly called. Each "rat" faction does particular types of damage, and is vulnerable to particular types of damage. If you are doing NPC agent missions, the mission description info will tell you which rat faction you will be fighting. Use the type of missile that works best against that rat faction.

The Eve-Survival web site is a list of different missions the game has, what you need to do to complete them, what type of rat you'll fight in each mission, what type of damage you should equip yourself to do, and what type of damage the rats will do so you can set up your ship defences for that type of damage.

Rats also spawn in asteroid belts and inside anomalies. The type of rats that spawn in each system isn't random, CCP set up which types of rats will spawn in each system, and it's only one type of rat faction in each system. DOTLAN is a useful web site you can use to find out which type of rat faction will spawn in a particular system, and you can equip your weapons and defences to match that particular rat faction. You can also earn isk by hunting rats in asteroid belts and anomalies. Concord will pay you a reward for each rat ship you blow up . The weakest rats with the lowest rewards are in high security space. Low security space has stronger rats and bigger rewards, and null security has the strongest rats and the biggest rewards, but also the highest risk that another player could ambush you while you hunt rats (ambushes often happen in low security space as well, and can happen in high security space but are less common). As well as the rewards, you can loot and salvage the wrecks of the rat ships for modules and valuable scrap to sell. Rats are easy to prepare for with only a small amount of research needed before you fly out to shoot them.

If you want to know about which missiles to carry to fight other players, that's more complicated. Each playable race has ships that are strong against some types of damage and weak against other types of damage, but players can fit different defence modules to their ships to improve their weakest defences, so it's not a simple case of saying "you should use damage A against Gallente ships and damage B against Caldari ships and damage C against Minmatar ships, etc". Scourge (kinetic) is thought to be a generally useful all round damage type, and Inferno (thermal) as well.

The weak point about missiles is that they only do one damage type, If you've picked the right type of missile to use, you'll do a lot of damage. If you picked the wrong type of missile to use, not so good. Combat drones are the same, drones only do one type of damage so if you want to spread out your drone damage types, you need to carry several different types of drones.

This is an area where gun type weapons (Minmatar projectiles, Gallente hybrids and Amarr lasers) can have an advantage because they all have ammunition that can do several types of damage at the same time. Minmatar have two different types of ammunition that do three of the four damage types at the same time. A Minmatar ship that uses a combination of missiles and projectile guns could cover all damage types at the same time depending on ammunition choice for the guns and missiles. Guns are not always superior to missiles though, they have less range and big guns have problems hitting small fast ships compared to big missiles hitting the same small fast ships. A general rule of thumb, small weapons (guns and missiles) hit small targets more easily, big weapons work better against big targets.
Algebar Orion
#76 - 2014-01-27 14:27:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Algebar Orion
So all that looks different than I thought. There is no ideal fit because everything depends on actual enemy you must fight. Thanks for clarification. Fortunately I want to begin combat in missions against single profile damage rats. Tomorrow I will almost finish training of Mastery Certificate I for Raven battleship so my options will be a bit more flexible.

If it is true that Caldari CNR missile battleship is overally weaker than "laser-railgun-blaster" warships as you suggest, I will buy Vindicator but that means another week long training. What?

As for drones I have bought temporary stuff: 5 x Integrated Hammerhead and 5 x Integrated Hobgoblin.
Dkeh Weis
Digital Innovations
#77 - 2014-01-27 15:40:36 UTC
You can use this link to see what types of damage certain NPC's are weak to, and what type of damage they deal.

http://www.eve-outtakes.de/damagetypes.htm

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Algebar Orion
#78 - 2014-01-27 16:31:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Algebar Orion
OK, so I am fielding nice T1 faction Raven's fit against Guristas rats:

[HIGH]
6 x Prototype "Arbalet" torpedo launcher, Caldary Navy Mjolnir torpedo
1 x Small Tractor Beam I

[MID]
2 x "Dread Guristas" Kinetic Deflection Field
1 x "Dread Guristas" Thermic Dissipation Field
1 x "Dread Guristas" X-Large Shield Booster
2 x "Domination" Shield Boost Amplifier

[LOW]
3 x "Pandemonium" Ballistic Control System I
2 x "Page" Capacitor Flux Coil I

[RiG]
3 x Large Capacitor Control Circuit I

[DRONES]
5 x "Integrated" Hammerhead
5 x "Integrated" Hobgoblin

It should be ready tomorrow. What do you think about it?
Thomas Builder
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#79 - 2014-01-27 18:54:11 UTC
Algebar Orion wrote:
It should be ready tomorrow. What do you think about it?
I think you have too much ISK on your hands for a new player and I see an embarrassing loss mail waiting to happen.

Several things:
1) If you've never flown lvl 4 missions you might underestimate the amount of damage you take. Especially as you are using Torpedoes, you will be right in the middle of them and might be webbed & scrammed, unable to fly away, dying. For new players I'd always suggest a MJD and long distance weapons, as it's much more forgiving, you can always micro-jump away to safety. Take on too much with your fit and you will be trapped.

2) There are locator agents in this game. These are NPCs who will tell anyone that has the required standing where you are. You just posted a rather expensive fit, with little buffer. (BTW, it's normal for a PvE fit to have little buffer.) And you have little skill points and experience. You should expect several people to have taken notes and they might show up tomorrow and kill you in order to loot those faction modules from your wreck. Never, ever publicly announce that you are flying with expensive modules.
Algebar Orion
#80 - 2014-01-27 19:03:52 UTC
Where are those NPC spies? On this forum? I do not understand this.