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High Sec War Deccing is Utterly Broken.

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Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#121 - 2014-01-26 16:25:59 UTC
Billy McCandless wrote:
Your grip on business law appears to be as loose, or even as non-existant as your grip on both reality and the english language.

+1 for pulling me into another one of your pointless nonsenses with no meaning.
+1 for properly applying the word "loose".

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE
Haedonism Bot
People for the Ethical Treatment of Rogue Drones
#122 - 2014-01-26 16:47:56 UTC
Everybody can relax now, I have devised the perfect solution to the wardec problem. Since my plan is completely flawless, CCP will no doubt implement it with the next patch.

1. Fix wardecs. As I stated earlier, this means a flat 10 million isk fee and a limit of 10 aggressive decs active at any one time.

2. Newbies who stay in starter corps should be drafted into their faction militia after 30 days. This gives them a high degree of safety in their own faction space, immunity from wardecs, and incentives to leave highsec and pewpew. Likewise, older players who are between corps will also be in a faction militia by default.

3. Wardecs follow individuals who drop corp for seven days.

4. Continue to develop conflict drivers for highsec. Still cooking up ideas for this one - give people more things to fight over.

www.everevolutionaryfront.blogspot.com

Vote Sabriz Adoudel and Tora Bushido for CSMX. Keep the Evil in EVE!
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#123 - 2014-01-26 18:03:22 UTC
Veronica Felix wrote:
War deccing is broken, almost to a surreal extent. In high sec, small industrial corps are war decced repeatedly for no other purpose than to cause grief. The ward deccers--if looking at their killboards are any indication--are cowards, never attacking a low sec corp, or even the more potent high sec corps.

War dec after war dec after war dec. It has all become rather tiresome, even disheartening. My corp alone has endured a war dec almost every other week since the early summer.

Some--most, perhaps-- war deccing corps will issue war decs against multiple corps at once: XXX XXXX just issued war decs against 23 corps and alliances simultaneously. Why? For the lulz, and to generate a superficially more attractive resume, I imagine. Of course, all the corps that they are 'fighting' (do they ever leave major hubs?) are small industrial corps.

Some suggestions:

--No corp/alliance should be permitted to issue more than three concurrent war declarations.

--The aggressor must deposit into a CONCORD trust account enough isk to cover a war for a month of renewals. As it is now, a corp issues a war dec, and after a week, the war is usually allowed to lapse. Wars should not just lapse because the aggressor loses interest; the aggressor must either surrender with consequences, or be forced to pay repeatedly for a month for the continuance of the war.

--The 'alts' of the war deccing corporations should all be identified to the defenders. As it stands now, any single war deccer is accompanied by two neutral logistics alts who suddenly appear 80 kms away, with repping so over-powered that an Atron can destroy a Dominix.

--War dec fees are too low by a factor of ten. Only 50 million isk to dec an entire alliance for a week is nonsensical.

Hiring mercenaries is not an answer. Joining larger alliances is not the answer. HTFU is not the answer. High sec war deccing is broken, and it is used primarily to abuse, grief, and harass others.

Summary: High sec war deccing is broken. It is an instrument for griefers to constantly harass industrialists, miners, and missioners. Unable to survive the travails of low and null, they repeatedly war dec those least inclined to fight. War decs should have strict limits and significant consequences for the aggressors.



You have no CLUE.

We war dec Doznes of corps at same time because that is the only way to have a chance to get any kills. BEcause YOU PREYS.. are all utter cowards that rarely fight back.

Second.. I think we have wardecced almost all high sec large corps, and several of the powerful 0.0 alliances.


Third.. LEARN TO MAKE YOUR OWN RESEARCH! You can and shoudl discover the enemy alts. That is the first thing we do when we start a war.

NO war decs are too HIGH for a factor of 10!! nowadays is much cheaper to suicide gank thatn to make a war.


Summary: you are acting like a looser!!! You are wrong.. and you are whining like a baby

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Alaekessa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
#124 - 2014-01-26 18:26:23 UTC
Wait, what? Since when can we dec NPC corps?

I will agree that war dec mechanics are far from ideal, though so is so much other stuff in eve.
Abla Tive
#125 - 2014-01-26 18:27:58 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:


You have no CLUE.

We war dec Doznes of corps at same time because that is the only way to have a chance to get any kills. BEcause YOU PREYS.. are all utter cowards that rarely fight back.



Hmm, how about this as a solution to your lack of kills?

A company that declares war could be trying to wage aggressive war, which is normally considered a war crime.

Hence, their motives are suspect, so any declaring corp has its members automatically tagged with a *suspect* tag for the duration of the war dec.

This should greatly increase the opportunities for PvP

Don't you think?
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#126 - 2014-01-26 18:30:11 UTC
if someone wanted to go suspect they'd go suspect
grr wardeccers
Billy McCandless
Zacharia Explorations Group
#127 - 2014-01-26 18:39:13 UTC
Abla Tive wrote:

A company that declares war could be trying to wage aggressive war, which is normally considered a war crime. (Citation needed)

"Thread locked for being deemed a total loss." - ISD Ezwal
Veronica Felix
Doomheim
#128 - 2014-01-26 18:44:12 UTC
Thank you for the replies, some of which are remarkably helpful, and some of which are, well, to be expected.

As for corp-hopping, that is not a desirable option. Some of us love our corps, and cherish the corp's history and members too much to leave even temporarily. And, really, is corp-hopping the answer for the broken war dec system? No.

Some have made the statement that their brave and baleful mercenary corps must---must!---war dec dozens of small industrial corps simultaneously in order to have 'targets to shoot at'. Yes, quite. I believe that that is part of the point that I was making: that most of these abusive, griefing war decs are issued by the most cravenly sorts of griefing corporations. They select the weak, and then flee when outnumbered, or hide behind their repping alts.

Perhaps the PTB imagined that wars would occur between rivals for resources and territories. And I have no doubt that some wars are predicated on those factors.

For the most part, however, wars are just griefing mechanisms, and serve to drive people from EVE, whilst those of us who remain are mired in gratuitous and abusive conflicts.

Go fight the Goons, or the Tuskers, and the like, I would say, but there is small chance of that happening, isn't there?
EI Digin
irc.zulusquad.org
#129 - 2014-01-26 19:12:56 UTC
Hey guys, want to learn how to pvp? Why don't you go fight a group that has 10 to 100 times your numbers and has more experience and isk than you will ever have instead of picking on poor little 5-year-old-veteran me? :smug: :smug: :smug: TwistedTwistedPiratePirate
ISD Tyrozan
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#130 - 2014-01-26 19:51:30 UTC
Thread has been moved to Features & Ideas Discussion.

ISD Tyrozan

Captain

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

@ISDTyrozan | @ISD_CCL
Kitty Bear
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#131 - 2014-01-26 20:08:47 UTC
The broken part is station gaming.
Undocking whilst under a war-dec should enable the pvp log-off timer .. and disable quick redocking.

if you issue a wardec, that says you WANT to fight. so fight.
Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
#132 - 2014-01-26 20:13:43 UTC
Michele Bachmann wrote:
As a hopeful CSM9 candidate who specializes in these kinds of issues these concerns raise some interesting questions and ideas.


EVE is a social game with both positive and negative interactions between players. Simply deciding that you will not participate in an action you see as negative or detrimental to your game is not in the spirit of the sandbox that we all play in.


I look forward to your feedback and discussion


So just lie back and enjoy it. WOW!
Lion Ahishatsu
State War Academy
Caldari State
#133 - 2014-01-26 20:14:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Lion Ahishatsu
i aggre with you to some extend even if eve is a pvp game (eve isnt a sole pvp game)

there are player who hate pvp and dont want to sit in npc corps mostly industrie miners etc

if people get wardecced in empire in most cases they avoid to fight now why they dont play the wrong game
the play like they want to without pvp

in my corp we had a pvp wing but we had only in rare cases war deccs and they left to 0.0
since they didnt get the pvp they want people who wants pvp real pvp go to low or 0.0 peoply who hate pvp or dont want to are in the empire

and even in 0.0 are pvp haters and again it isnt wrong if the industriels
are needet for supply of ships etc but that isnt the case in empire we get all we want

and industriels are left behind or hatet because they dont like or cant do pvp
if they where needet with all they industriel might for fights and wars that would be different but hey
why should a producer who could build a little fleet by himself not fight since we can buy all things in empire

or short the pvp guys who want easy targets or wardec them because the corps are miners etc are nothing more than griefers
we had war because a mining corp was in our home system thats a reason not easy kills ( my corp was mining corp)
Seranova Farreach
Biomass Negative
#134 - 2014-01-26 20:18:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Seranova Farreach
high-sec war-decks are nothing but a mechanic to grief and harass small corps or newbro corps.



with as much isk as there is in eve the wardec mechanic needs to be increased in price vs corp and vs alliance and some % based math like is a 200 man corp wardecks a 5 man corp the 200 man corp has to pay 200% what they normally would and have a bare minimum amount of characters in the corp to be able to wardeck to avoid making 1 man corps just to get a low payment then inviting people to join the corp after.

should also not be allowed to invite people during a wardec only invite some one to defend for you.

the flaw of wardecs other then the obvious is that people use them just to blap and grief people in highsec for limited time, there needs to be a base minimum time the war is in effect to make it so you are commited to the cause not just a quick 24 hour spurt

[u]___________________ http://i.imgur.com/d9Ee2ik.jpg[/u]
Veronica Felix
Doomheim
#135 - 2014-01-26 20:26:01 UTC
Moved from General Discussion so the topic can die. Must have cut quite a bit too close to the bone for some.

This was not really an 'idea', despite the suggestions, but a major problem that needs to be openly discussed. Burying it will not solve the problem.
Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#136 - 2014-01-26 20:26:30 UTC
Seranova Farreach wrote:
high-sec war-decks are nothing but a mechanic to grief and harass small corps or newbro corps.



with as much isk as there is in eve the wardec mechanic needs to be increased in price vs corp and vs alliance and some % based math like is a 200 man corp wardecks a 5 man corp the 200 man corp has to pay 200% what they normally would and have a bare minimum amount of characters in the corp to be able to wardeck to avoid making 1 man corps just to get a low payment then inviting people to join the corp after.

should also not be allowed to invite people during a wardec only invite some one to defend for you.

the flaw of wardecs other then the obvious is that people use them just to blap and grief people in highsec for limited time, there needs to be a base minimum time the war is in effect to make it so you are commited to the cause not just a quick 24 hour spurt
Holy **** your dress is tight!

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE
Maxpie
MUSE LLP
#137 - 2014-01-26 21:24:44 UTC
Kitty Bear wrote:
The broken part is station gaming.
Undocking whilst under a war-dec should enable the pvp log-off timer .. and disable quick redocking.

if you issue a wardec, that says you WANT to fight. so fight.



Totally agree with this.

Also, wardecs would be much improved if wars had actual conflict driver. Nearly all come along randomly, which is a shame really considering what it could be. I think that's why many defenders simply avoid the wardec. They have no real animosity against the attacker, nothing to gain. The attacker usually only wants kills, so the defender simply seeks to deprive them of it. Wars miss the core concept of what a war should be and that's unfortunate. Maybe there's no better way to implement that in high sec, but it would be cool.

No good deed goes unpunished
Alaekessa
Matari Combat Research and Manufacture Inc.
#138 - 2014-01-26 21:39:33 UTC
Haedonism Bot wrote:
2. Newbies who stay in starter corps should be drafted into their faction militia after 30 days. This gives them a high degree of safety in their own faction space, immunity from wardecs, and incentives to leave highsec and pewpew. Likewise, older players who are between corps will also be in a faction militia by default.

I can't help but think you are being a smartass with this one but I honestly do think it is a good idea. Only change I would make is give the newbies 35 days.

I really think that this idea would also help drive home the fact the Eve is meant to a PvP centered game (not just ship combat PvP but PvP in all of its forms).
Sentinel 7
Signal One.
#139 - 2014-01-26 21:42:34 UTC
OK. in 3.5 years and 10+ characters in 9 small player corps, several of them specifically set up as either bait corps or bait pilots... I have never been on the receiving end of a "random" or "griefer" wardec. In fact just two wardecs ever, both as direct consequences of other actions. Yet so many other newcorps apparently get wardecced for "no reason".

So c'mon, whats the real story. What is it you're doing to make yourself such a target? Loudmouthing in local or the forums? Pissed off an alliance that's taking it in turns? Advertise yourself as non-combat indy corp aka loot pinata? There's no such thing as "no reason", even most seemingly random attacks start with some sort of provocation, the trick is to work out what it is.
Abla Tive
#140 - 2014-01-26 21:47:53 UTC
A major reason for getting a war dec is flying a hauler or freighter.
Especially AFK.