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Mission runners and Incursion runners, your Empire LP is about to get ruined in value

First post
Author
Loraine Gess
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
#41 - 2014-01-24 19:43:32 UTC
Batelle wrote:
Loraine Gess wrote:
Saying we hit 40m LP/day a total due to inefficiencies would still equate to ~640 medium plexes worth of LP at minmatar's T4 rate.


33% of all nullsec bounties being covered by the ESS seems like a huge overestimate. I think 33% is near the top end of what we might see IF large alliances everywhere adopt usage of the structure.



It doesn't have much of a downside anymore. With a not-terrible intel channel you're still basically invincible. Even if you just abandon it every time a neut enters the system I think there's still good profit in it, which should lead to widespread adoption sooner or later.


On that note: Can it be anchored near POS towers? That would reduce its only real downside and leave the perceived drama.
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#42 - 2014-01-24 20:17:26 UTC
Loraine Gess wrote:
Batelle wrote:
Loraine Gess wrote:
Saying we hit 40m LP/day a total due to inefficiencies would still equate to ~640 medium plexes worth of LP at minmatar's T4 rate.


33% of all nullsec bounties being covered by the ESS seems like a huge overestimate. I think 33% is near the top end of what we might see IF large alliances everywhere adopt usage of the structure.



It doesn't have much of a downside anymore. With a not-terrible intel channel you're still basically invincible. Even if you just abandon it every time a neut enters the system I think there's still good profit in it, which should lead to widespread adoption sooner or later.


On that note: Can it be anchored near POS towers? That would reduce its only real downside and leave the perceived drama.


So with widespread adoption looking imminent, my original post stands.
Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights
#43 - 2014-01-24 20:28:55 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
[
So with widespread adoption looking imminent, my original post stands.


Then so does mine? (it was for the sake of simplicity that faction antimatter is too expensive).

Really, what does it matter? The LP store has a hard floor on prices anyway. People aren't going to buy things in the LP store that are selling on the market for less than the components and isk to purchase. And if they do, the people like you are going to do the bare minimum amount of research required not to buy items selling below their actual value.

LP is a decent supplement to your income but this doesn't seem like a 'the sky is falling scenerio.'
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#44 - 2014-01-24 20:34:17 UTC
Noxisia Arkana wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
[
So with widespread adoption looking imminent, my original post stands.


Then so does mine? (it was for the sake of simplicity that faction antimatter is too expensive).

Really, what does it matter? The LP store has a hard floor on prices anyway. People aren't going to buy things in the LP store that are selling on the market for less than the components and isk to purchase. And if they do, the people like you are going to do the bare minimum amount of research required not to buy items selling below their actual value.

LP is a decent supplement to your income but this doesn't seem like a 'the sky is falling scenerio.'


I used to get 5,000-6,000 ISK / LP on some items. (Repub Fleet TE's). Now, that number has been decimated by various game mechanic changes, not involved with this one.

But it is an example of how bad this can indeed impact on income, when there is a flood of Empire Navy LP into items than crossover into other LP stores.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#45 - 2014-01-24 20:44:10 UTC
Anomaly One wrote:
Well, thanks for the tip Dinsdale :( and I was just skilling up to do missions (lvl 2 missions atm) meh wasted sp.. back to mining, such **** income in high sec really..


just don't run for a navy corp and you will be fine.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#46 - 2014-01-24 20:53:20 UTC
Loraine Gess wrote:
Batelle wrote:
Loraine Gess wrote:
Saying we hit 40m LP/day a total due to inefficiencies would still equate to ~640 medium plexes worth of LP at minmatar's T4 rate.


33% of all nullsec bounties being covered by the ESS seems like a huge overestimate. I think 33% is near the top end of what we might see IF large alliances everywhere adopt usage of the structure.



It doesn't have much of a downside anymore. With a not-terrible intel channel you're still basically invincible. Even if you just abandon it every time a neut enters the system I think there's still good profit in it, which should lead to widespread adoption sooner or later.


On that note: Can it be anchored near POS towers? That would reduce its only real downside and leave the perceived drama.


Assuming 1k isk/ LP, the LP reward theoretically completely replaces the 15% held by the ESS. However, you still have the cost of the ESS, the volume of it, the potential for blue drama, and the fact that LP will be less than 1k/LP, and are a PITA to retrieve. When thinking about ALL of nullsec bounties everywhere, from every activity, I think the proportion that happen with an ESS deployed will be significant, but not anywhere close to 50%.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.

unidenify
Deaf Armada
#47 - 2014-01-24 21:06:40 UTC  |  Edited by: unidenify
Batelle wrote:
Loraine Gess wrote:
Batelle wrote:
Loraine Gess wrote:
Saying we hit 40m LP/day a total due to inefficiencies would still equate to ~640 medium plexes worth of LP at minmatar's T4 rate.


33% of all nullsec bounties being covered by the ESS seems like a huge overestimate. I think 33% is near the top end of what we might see IF large alliances everywhere adopt usage of the structure.



It doesn't have much of a downside anymore. With a not-terrible intel channel you're still basically invincible. Even if you just abandon it every time a neut enters the system I think there's still good profit in it, which should lead to widespread adoption sooner or later.


On that note: Can it be anchored near POS towers? That would reduce its only real downside and leave the perceived drama.


Assuming 1k isk/ LP, the LP reward theoretically completely replaces the 15% held by the ESS. However, you still have the cost of the ESS, the volume of it, the potential for blue drama, and the fact that LP will be less than 1k/LP, and are a PITA to retrieve. When thinking about ALL of nullsec bounties everywhere, from every activity, I think the proportion that happen with an ESS deployed will be significant, but not anywhere close to 50%.


what we do know for sure is that it will reduce value on LP, (question is how much impact)

I think what will happen
1. Null sec alliance check which navy has highest rate
2. Null stack on ESS that generate this navy LP
3. this Navy LP rate crash due to flow from Null sec
4. Go back to 1.

this is on assumption that Null sec Corp/Alliance will use ESS
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#48 - 2014-01-25 00:01:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Tauranon
Noxisia Arkana wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
[
So with widespread adoption looking imminent, my original post stands.


Then so does mine? (it was for the sake of simplicity that faction antimatter is too expensive).

Really, what does it matter? The LP store has a hard floor on prices anyway. People aren't going to buy things in the LP store that are selling on the market for less than the components and isk to purchase. And if they do, the people like you are going to do the bare minimum amount of research required not to buy items selling below their actual value.

LP is a decent supplement to your income but this doesn't seem like a 'the sky is falling scenerio.'


if you are running for sisters, and blitzing properly, its about 2/3rds of your income, its by no means supplemental to a good mission runner, it is the method by which mission runner incomes can reach over 100m/hr.

In any case the change to moongoo to increase null alliance income reliance on pilot activity has literally given a mission runner a choice of 200 non strategic corps to recruit themselves into null without having to sign onto structure grinds or blobs at all - ie its not as if this stuff is -hard to access- anymore. Seriously think people ought to drop the whole null/not null thing, its so easy for a bear to move...

and yes I'll be recruiting soon, and yes the terms will be generous - ie I'll probably wind up basically insulating corp members from the costs of renting the system. Given different tax regimes in different corps it may actually be more wallet isk to shoot my hubs than it will be to shoot someone elses forsaken hubs.
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#49 - 2014-01-25 00:16:34 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
Anomaly One wrote:
Well, thanks for the tip Dinsdale :( and I was just skilling up to do missions (lvl 2 missions atm) meh wasted sp.. back to mining, such **** income in high sec really..


just don't run for a navy corp and you will be fine.


And what about the crossover items, that are available in Navy stores and non-Navy NPC LP stores?
thetwilitehour
Caldari Provisions
#50 - 2014-01-25 00:23:46 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
Anomaly One wrote:
Well, thanks for the tip Dinsdale :( and I was just skilling up to do missions (lvl 2 missions atm) meh wasted sp.. back to mining, such **** income in high sec really..


just don't run for a navy corp and you will be fine.


And what about the crossover items, that are available in Navy stores and non-Navy NPC LP stores?


Except of course the devaluation of Navy LP means heavy mission runners will move to non-Navy LP stores, and drive down prices there as well. As planned, our slow destruction of the income in High sec is continuing.

Of course it makes sense, if your mommy goes to work with you to keep you safe, you shouldn't expect to make the same amount of money as an adult.
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#51 - 2014-01-25 01:00:05 UTC
thetwilitehour wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
Anomaly One wrote:
Well, thanks for the tip Dinsdale :( and I was just skilling up to do missions (lvl 2 missions atm) meh wasted sp.. back to mining, such **** income in high sec really..


just don't run for a navy corp and you will be fine.


And what about the crossover items, that are available in Navy stores and non-Navy NPC LP stores?


Except of course the devaluation of Navy LP means heavy mission runners will move to non-Navy LP stores, and drive down prices there as well. As planned, our slow destruction of the income in High sec is continuing.

Of course it makes sense, if your mommy goes to work with you to keep you safe, you shouldn't expect to make the same amount of money as an adult.


**** off.
Like the deal you just cut with PL to make sure all your botting systems never will be attacked again?
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#52 - 2014-01-25 01:58:31 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
thetwilitehour wrote:
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
Anomaly One wrote:
Well, thanks for the tip Dinsdale :( and I was just skilling up to do missions (lvl 2 missions atm) meh wasted sp.. back to mining, such **** income in high sec really..


just don't run for a navy corp and you will be fine.


And what about the crossover items, that are available in Navy stores and non-Navy NPC LP stores?


Except of course the devaluation of Navy LP means heavy mission runners will move to non-Navy LP stores, and drive down prices there as well. As planned, our slow destruction of the income in High sec is continuing.

Of course it makes sense, if your mommy goes to work with you to keep you safe, you shouldn't expect to make the same amount of money as an adult.


**** off.
Like the deal you just cut with PL to make sure all your botting systems never will be attacked again?


Chokepoint, disband dot, a couple of other gangs whos tags escape me and occasionally mordus angels are seen in Vale, and are not in anyway affected by the above deal. Nor would the above deal have prevented the TEMP invasion.

However those entities are out for fun, where as PL and the CFC murder pets for keeps when they get going, so from the extracting rent perspective, that is plain due diligence.

In any case, the benefits of the deal are accessible to the garden variety bear via renting or getting recruited.

mynnna
State War Academy
Caldari State
#53 - 2014-01-25 12:48:28 UTC  |  Edited by: mynnna
Even Dinsdale argued against the original version of the ESS, saying it was bad and not worth using.


Your voice was quite useful. Be careful what you wish for, I guess.

Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal

Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#54 - 2014-01-25 14:48:45 UTC
mynnna wrote:
Even Dinsdale argued against the original version of the ESS, saying it was bad and not worth using.


Your voice was quite useful. Be careful what you wish for, I guess.


True on the 1st part.
The ESS in the original form was punitative to null sec players, arbitrary , and badly designed.

But this new version, now is equally punitative to high sec mission runners, while a gift to null sec players.
That is equally wrong.

Here you are gloating, so I know it will be good for null and bad for high sec.
Gimme more Cynos
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#55 - 2014-01-25 17:05:21 UTC
Dinsdale Pirannha wrote:


But this new version, now is equally punitative to high sec mission runners, while a gift to null sec players.
That is equally wrong.


Erm, no.

There are currently 2 sorts of mission runners:

Those, where LP is the primary income
Those, where LP is only a tiny fraction of the income

The first ones are better with not doing missions for the empire factions ( SOE SOE SOE SOE!!)

The other ones don't care that much, as it doesn't make too much of a difference if you're getting 500isk / LP or 300isk / LP by selling your stuff directly to buy orders (hope you see what I did here)

Result = Buff to 0.0 (which is good) with a very limited impact on Highsec.


Peeps doing missions in Highsec will still have the opportunity to make a huge killing in ISK by doing missions for non-empire corps.

It might also end up in a buff to missions, as more isk = more Tag demand = rise in price for allready limited tags which can be looted and farmed easily in HS missions.

Of course these points are depending on the actual use of the ESS.
Garnoo
Eternity INC.
Goonswarm Federation
#56 - 2014-01-25 23:10:31 UTC
mayby its the time to move to nullsec...

People are going to try to ruin your day. Get together with others, ruin their day back -  EvE

dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#57 - 2014-01-26 07:12:29 UTC
Garnoo wrote:
mayby its the time to move to nullsec...


move to null, and experience tidi in all it's glory?, no thank you... i'll just keep running seo missions, the value of navy LP is not something that concerns me.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.

Loraine Gess
Confedeferate Union of Tax Legalists
#58 - 2014-01-26 10:16:40 UTC
dexington wrote:
Garnoo wrote:
mayby its the time to move to nullsec...


move to null, and experience tidi in all it's glory?, no thank you... i'll just keep running seo missions, the value of navy LP is not something that concerns me.




Confirming the point of eve is to fly more missions to earn more isk to fly more missions to... fly more missions.
Cheng Musana
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#59 - 2014-01-26 11:24:01 UTC
Had a thought about it. A carrier pilot running his sanctums and getting 50 mil ticks and has his ESS running on 0.2LP/1000 ISK will get around 10.000 LP every 20 mins. There is no travel time, no mission gates just warp to sites and blap everything in your sight. And if he uses a mobile depot he deploys it and if a neutral comes in just fit like 6 warpcore stabs and run for it.
dexington
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#60 - 2014-01-26 12:00:33 UTC  |  Edited by: dexington
Loraine Gess wrote:
dexington wrote:
Garnoo wrote:
mayby its the time to move to nullsec...


move to null, and experience tidi in all it's glory?, no thank you... i'll just keep running seo missions, the value of navy LP is not something that concerns me.


Confirming the point of eve is to fly more missions to earn more isk to fly more missions to... fly more missions.


Confirming this guy is right, there is only one way to play eve, and this is the right way.

Thank you random dude, you really understand what eve is all about, you saved us all from play eve the wrong way, ccp should given you some kind of reward.

I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous.