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Intergalactic Summit

 
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The Nation Never Rests, Sansha Never Sleeps

Author
Aphoxema G
Khushakor Clan
#1 - 2011-09-10 03:09:07 UTC
There's a lot of tough questions we face. As a person grows in influence they are presented with moral dillemas. Sometimes these demand consideration, introspection, and examination of ethics. Simply having become a capsuleer inherits heavy responsibility. Sometimes very unfair responsibility where, with our accidental power, others force us to make decisions we don't even want to think about.

Everyone has their detractors. Intergalactic Summit is a perfect compendium of colliding beliefs and desires. Even the fairest, most courteous individuals invite hatred by only daring to say anything. Some people grow only more timid. Some people just stop worrying about angering anyone.

Since our birth, hardly a decade ago, we've all had to take sides and shoulder different hardship. The expectations of us are immeasurable and the sheer force we exhibit economically, politically and destructively can bring us greater public outcry than even imperial royalty or politicians or even whole corporations.

We can consider ourselves lucky, though, because the harm we can cause without trying, the rage we can provoke is what makes us able to do wonderful things. The numbers we deal with casually can ruin most corporations. We can commit genocide with only a thought.

We have the power to stop terrible things, especially when it is other capsuleers who do these terrible things. There is little accountability in our actions so we don't need to fear public opinion. The sheer amount of money that we can throw at anything can turn greed into a weapon of philanthropy.

Most importantly, our words have meaning that governments and corporations can only dream of having. The examples we set are staggeringly influential of how the public sees capsuleers and how capsuleers see each other.

There is a terrible thing happening now. Sansha's Nation is trying to sink just one claw into the cluster so it can bring us all closer to its gaping, drueling mouth. Incredibly, we have kept these claws neatly trimmed and filed despite the persistent assaults and numbers beyond meaningful estimation.

As far as we can tell, we are winning and, unless Kuvakei has reserved more surprises for us later, we are keeping this threat stable. I've come to realize it's too early to predict the victor, but I have great evidence that as the Nation pushes harder, so we can too find the numbers to push back.

What I ask now is simple for you but can be sweeping to the cluster. I'm not pleading for your sympathy, I don't want to guilt you into fighting alongside us. Donations would be wonderful but that is not what I am here for.

What I need are your words.

It doesn't have to be here; it probably wouldn't make much difference whatever you said here. This is a place mostly for capsuleers and we pretty much know what each other has to say.

I want you to bring up the subject, to announce to others where you stand. Have conversations of the incursion and explore them emotionally.

The Nation might win someday. I can't believe it but it might even be the most ethical solution. But if the Nation is to win, I want us to choose that it wins and not be forced into it.

How does your crew feel? How does your entourage feel? Your fans? Your supporters? Your family? Your friends? Your chronies and henchmen? Your allies and adversaries? How do you feel?

This is how we solidify the fight against the Nation, or maybe discover how the majority of people wish to proceed. With words, with rational discourse we will accelerate the outcome and save lives. Either we will gain a greater offense or organize diplomacy.

Don't remain silent when this massive, philosophical war rages on.
Malcolm Khross
Doomheim
#2 - 2011-09-10 10:17:49 UTC
Aphoxema G wrote:


The Nation might win someday. I can't believe it but it might even be the most ethical solution. But if the Nation is to win, I want us to choose that it wins and not be forced into it.




Since you are asking how we feel, I will start with this. Nation's vision, as benevolent and uniting as it may be, is currently be brought about in unethical, aggressive ways and that destroys any ethic value it may have had. Nation is not the most ethical solution nor will it ever be so long as it attempts to force others into its vision.

Personally, I see very little ethical about Nation. I understand the desire to bring order and stability to the cluster as a whole, to cease wars and silence differences in the name of peace and unity. Yet, as I have watched humanity I have come to realize that it is our differences that drive us and define us. Our differences that serve as a catalyst that drives us to ever improve ourselves, gives us reason to stop and get to know one another and even paves pathways to new philosophical and technological advances.

Conversely, the removal of our differences, the absolute and total unification of humankind will require that humans sacrifice who we are. So long as individuality remains, there will be differences, there will be conflicts, there will be debates and arguments, struggles and wars and yet there will always be charities and kindness, benevolence and brotherhood. For all of our sins and failures, for all of our faults and imperfections we are a species defined by our differences that both unite us and divide us.

I have had this conversation with several of my colleagues and with the few I currently employ as crew and planetside employees. The end sentiment is always the same, we are either free to be different our bound to conformity and given the choice, we accept our faults to embrace our qualities.

~Malcolm Khross

Akrasjel Lanate
Immemorial Coalescence Administration
Immemorial Coalescence
#3 - 2011-09-10 13:37:09 UTC
Poor Nation's propaganda is poor.

CEO of Lanate Industries

Citizen of Solitude

Aphoxema G
Khushakor Clan
#4 - 2011-09-10 14:38:34 UTC
Malcolm Khross wrote:
(good stuff)



I used to think Humanity was generally awful and that our nature is to be stupid and callous. Altruism was only a tool to gain reputation and was still inherently selfish. I didn't think we had any hope and due to our primitive, emotional motivations there wasn't much reason to worry about the wants or needs of other people. I was equally inadequate and really had just as little respect for myself as I had for everyone else.

It was before Kuvakei's ultimatum that I got out of this thinking, but I have to thank the Nation in a really awkward way for teaching me a lot about myself and others. We are cruel, awful and selfish beings capable of horrible things, but it isn't through those tendencies that we are where we are today. I'm not the scholarly type and I've heard a lot of different stories about our genesis in New Eden, but they all depend on us rising from ashes and collaborating to make giant leaps that surpass what even the most ambitious individual could possibly do.

I have faith in us, and though capsuleers have a poor history in benefiting Humanity, we are still young and the complex interactions with non-capsuleers has been messy. We may be the worst thing to yet happen to society, or we may be the sieves that society can use to separate our differences from our unifying qualities.

Or we're just really rich people who happen to have a highly efficient bus to control spaceships with...

So what if we're dirty monsters who lack self-control? How does Humanity's faults give Kuvakei the right to choose for us what we need? How is he any more empirically qualified to reassign our meaning of self? He is not a professional in sociology. He is not a master educator. He is not an elected official.

Sansha is his own prophet. Sansha is his own god. The Nation isn't an experiment or an alternative lifestyle. This entire conquest is about imposing a religion upon other people, and we are all perfectly aware of where that has gotten us before.

If I am to be convinced that the Nation is the best thing for us, it will take a Hell of a lot more than any of the drivel that the apologists have offered on IGS. All I've seen is arguments by assertion, claims that these people seem to believe should be self-evident in their glory. They fail to understand that propaganda needs to start somewhere else than the glorious conclusion they hope for.
Aphoxema G
Khushakor Clan
#5 - 2011-09-10 14:47:16 UTC
That reminds me... I saw this on a Galnet site a while ago and it really struck deep in me.

Anonymous wrote:
No person is a planet all to itself. Every person is a piece of the continents, a part of the whole. If any were to be blown away by an asteroid collision, the planet is the less. As well as a mountain were, a house of friends or family; every death diminishes me because I am involved in human kind. Therefor, never ask to know whom has died; it is you.
Saul Dhampir
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
#6 - 2011-09-10 18:02:59 UTC
The think is Aphox old mate, most capsuleers could not give a rat's ass about Sansha incursions. Furthermore, I suggest that the majority that do, do so for capital and fiscal gain, as opposed to holding any moral stand point about defending the systems they invade.

There will be those that do, but I think they will be the tiny minority.
Aphoxema G
Khushakor Clan
#7 - 2011-09-10 19:52:11 UTC
Saul Dhampir wrote:
The think is Aphox old mate, most capsuleers could not give a rat's ass about Sansha incursions. Furthermore, I suggest that the majority that do, do so for capital and fiscal gain, as opposed to holding any moral stand point about defending the systems they invade.

There will be those that do, but I think they will be the tiny minority.


I'm afraid I have to agree with you, but for even selfish purposes good can be accidentally done.

Though this is why it is more important to promote discussion. Life is crushed at the feet of giants in the forest; every step a person takes, they murder the plants and insects they do not notice. If they choose to not care, to shrug it off, that is much less tragic than never knowing that damage was done. When we try to get to places, we miss what happens on the way there. Large objectives have reaching results and our indiscretion can cause the same harm we work to prevent.
Wedgetail
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2011-09-21 05:11:09 UTC
Kuvakei's not an unintelligent person - and he has not lied when he says he cares for the people of new eden, however he is impatient. humanity is not ready to exist in the utopia he seeks to build - because of this he must forcibly pacify the elements that prevent us as a race from doing so. he is attempting to force the course of evolution he wants onto the human race before its time.

it is for this reason and this reason alone that I originally took a stance against nation and for this reason alone that I continue to - despite the opinions to the contrary spouted by the blinded organisations I used to fight beside.

When the Amarr reclaiming hit the Minmatar almost all of its culture was destroyed - the Minmatar that exists in freedom now is little more than a smoldering pile of hatred and contempt - in many cases this is well justified however there is no excuse for being blinded by one's rage. - different topic however, this is the point I need to explain my view so I shall stop here.

If kuvakei wins - if he does manage to topple what strength we have - something that in all honesty is very possible at this stage of the 'game'. we will quite simply cease to be human by its current definition, we will loose too much of what makes humanity what it is too soon to be able to call it a natural evolution of the species...we will become extinct forced to become another species entirely, our way of life and thinking utterly destroyed as the Amarr in large part succeeded in doing to the Minmatar so long ago if you want to see the result of this conflict should Kuvakei win you need only look in that direction for a comparison and substitute the relevant 'pieces of the equation'.



Arkady Sadik
Gradient
Electus Matari
#9 - 2011-09-21 07:17:38 UTC
Quote:
Sansha Never Sleeps
I'm afraid that it's a bit late in the conflict to try and ask for pity.
Wedgetail
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2011-09-21 07:53:30 UTC
Arkady Sadik wrote:
Quote:
Sansha Never Sleeps
I'm afraid that it's a bit late in the conflict to try and ask for pity.


I'm yet to see anyone who has... unless I am grossly mis-interpreting opinions - I agree with your statement however and for Kuvakei's part at least he went so far as to offer said pity without being asked - an invitation which was declined for reasons I can only assume to be on the individual level.

The reaction to that refusal is evident in his current short term strategic goal: the elimination of capsuleers as a threat to his operations - we did not step out of his way when he 'gave us the chance' in the promised land system late last year - leaving him 'no alternative' but to remove us from his path.. the situation we are all in now is very blatantly our own doing, therefore the responsibility to deal with our current situation lies with us - we would not receive pity even if sought.
Vaari
Imperial Pharmacy
#11 - 2011-09-21 08:01:27 UTC
I, Lord Vaari, earl of Sosan VII, archbishop of the Church of Providence, founder and despot of the Imperial Pharamcy, golden mountain, carrier of the Heaven's light, self proclaimed prophet, bane of all hexers and many more feel that Sansha Kuvakei's is working to unmake the Creation. He is going to fail.

Fear the God and honor the Empress!

-House Valius battle shout.

Thgil Goldcore
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2011-09-21 08:19:46 UTC
The nation is currently at a state of total war against the empires of new eden, on the reverse side the empires of new Eden aren't even close to their full war potential. We have plenty of resources to fight each-other in small time skirmishes which don't even begin to tap the raw power which can be brought to bare.

For those unfamiliar, total war is an entire empire completely devoted towards battle. Strict rationing, conversion of all industrial facilities to building military hardware, and conscription of all who can fight is the hallmarks of such a state.

As it stands, none of the forces in the cluster are even remotely close to this state. Simply put, the Nation cannot win.
Taronyu Eywa
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#13 - 2011-09-21 08:30:52 UTC
The fear and initial shock of the Sansha is absent amongst Capuleers now. Many Capsuleers have turned these invasions into profitable ventures, as have many others and they see no loss, only profit and victory. It may come to pass that the Nation will win, but thus far there is no evidence of that, I see no decisive defeat or fear spreading amongst the Capsuleers who counter Incursions. When I see the strength of Capsuleers failing, when the Nation casts aside the collective efforts of pilots effortlessly, then I will perhaps begin to pay attention to Nation Propoganda.

Taronyu Freight and Logistics Division Caldari Provisions

Wedgetail
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2011-09-21 08:37:36 UTC
Thgil Goldcore wrote:
The nation is currently at a state of total war against the empires of new eden, on the reverse side the empires of new Eden aren't even close to their full war potential. We have plenty of resources to fight each-other in small time skirmishes which don't even begin to tap the raw power which can be brought to bare.

For those unfamiliar, total war is an entire empire completely devoted towards battle. Strict rationing, conversion of all industrial facilities to building military hardware, and conscription of all who can fight is the hallmarks of such a state.

As it stands, none of the forces in the cluster are even remotely close to this state. Simply put, the Nation cannot win.


Bear in mind this conflict is only just now shy of 2 years old - we have not got a solid target to strike at nor have inflicted one confirmed kill on our enemy since the conflict's start at the beginning of last year - nation's goal as we understand it and as you have stated it is to over throw / assimilate all known space - this is a monumental task and will take a great deal of time to achieve but the fact that he has gone this long without suffering a major strategic defeat is in and of itself remarkable.

- also we do not know what nation's internal structure resembles, we do not know if they are following this very path of total dedication to the cause or merely playing with us. If they are then it is only a matter of time - they are slowly but surely harming us with every ship we lose, conversely we are not visibly harming them...we need to find a critical point to strike at - a problem anti nation capsuleers have faced since day one of the resurgence.

that said you are correct in your assessment that we haven't exactly put a concerted effort into stopping them, this is a key point in an argument I have been having with those professing to be doing so for a number of months now.

- i find this opinion is interesting and wish it was more widely shared, as nation appears to present us with what I recently learned is called a 'xanatos gambit' a 'no matter what action you take you will not gain a significant strategic victory' scenario, this would logically call for a severe re-think in our current strategy - this maneuver needs to be subverted if we are to make progress....
Vaari
Imperial Pharmacy
#15 - 2011-09-21 14:55:41 UTC
Only a total fool can even think the possibility of Kuvakei winning. I, Lord Vaari, earl of Sosan VII, founder and despot of the Imperial Pharmacy, golden mountain, liberator of the Providence, bane of witches and archbishop of the Church of Providence know very well the situation of this war. Sansha Kuvakei, the grand heretic does not have sufficent military power for even small skirmish againt our glorious Empire.

Fear the God and honor the Empress!

-House Valius battle shout.

Cmdr Baxter
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#16 - 2011-09-21 16:32:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Cmdr Baxter
Aphoxema G wrote:
... As far as we can tell, we are winning and, unless Kuvakei has reserved more surprises for us later, we are keeping this threat stable. I've come to realize it's too early to predict the victor, but I have great evidence that as the Nation pushes harder, so we can too find the numbers to push back ...

This has been a point of contention for the last few months amongst many in the anti-Nation community. My own opinion is closer to that of Wedgetail's. We are not winning this conflict, nor are we entirely losing it. We are stalemated with Sansha's Nation.

My read of this situation suggests that it would not take much to significantly shift the balance-of-power in favor of Sansha's Nation, however.

Nation has not revealed its full strength, and any assessment to the contrary is willful ignorance. None of the Nation titans, seen in Mouse Nell's imagery from last year, have been witnessed in combat with capsuleers. Nation continues to rebuild its combat forces overnight, and we have seen evidence that they are now making improvements to their first-generation ships. The empire militaries remain paralyzed by technology that the systems on our ships are, thankfully, immune to.

As if that wasn't enough, since January we have been tested, not outright attacked. Nation has been probing our defenses and state of organization, and has found we are vulnerable and lacking. Whatever unity that existed before 24.01.113YC disappeared when CONCORD levied the incursions into a cheap source of profit for capsuleers.

Make not mistake about it, until further notice we remain New Eden's first, and only, line of defense against Sansha Kuvakei. There is no backup coming, no cavalry flying to our assistance. We are on our own in this conflict. And we are a reactive force, dependent on Sansha Kuvakei to make the first move. We are unable to go on the offensive and can only counteract his attacks.

That is the true state of affairs in this war.

Aphoxema G wrote:
... How does your crew feel? How does your entourage feel? Your fans? Your supporters? Your family? Your friends? Your chronies and henchmen? Your allies and adversaries? How do you feel? ...

How should my personnel feel? SYNE is a tight-knit team, and every day we hear more stories about ships lost and survivors abducted. It hits directly at morale, and increases frustration, when you're powerless to go on the offensive and strike back. But make no mistake about it, one day we will go on the offensive, and we will make Sansha Kuvakei pay for his crimes.

And he will never see a courtroom, a judge, a jury. The man is too dangerous to let live.

Commander S. "Old Man" Baxter, CN (ret.)

Chief Archivist, The Synenose Accord

ValentinaDLM
SoE Roughriders
Electus Matari
#17 - 2011-09-21 17:02:59 UTC
When push comes to shove, I think we all know what side I will be on. That side is also by and large the same side my friends and crewmembers are on, however my family isn't....yet.
Rek Jaiga
Teraa Matar
#18 - 2011-09-21 17:04:17 UTC
Vaari wrote:
Only a total fool can even think the possibility of Kuvakei winning. I, Lord Vaari, earl of Sosan VII, founder and despot of the Imperial Pharmacy, golden mountain, liberator of the Providence, bane of witches and archbishop of the Church of Providence know very well the situation of this war. Sansha Kuvakei, the grand heretic does not have sufficent military power for even small skirmish againt our glorious Empire.


Careful. Hubris on the part of the Empire has resulted in defeat for the Amarr Navy before.

Remember that Kuvakei has access to wormhole technology and can go wherever he pleases. You know all those star systems that aren't linked by stargates? Nation could very well be in those systems, harvesting all of the resources in them to build up its fleet. Every asteroid and planet under the light of those alien stars may one day be formed into quite a few (read: thousands upon thousands) of Nightmares and a hundred Revenant-class supercarriers. I'm not saying this surely is the case, but it's a possiblity we shouldn't discount when making claims such as "Nation is weak".
Wedgetail
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#19 - 2011-09-21 17:18:40 UTC
Vaari wrote:
Only a total fool can even think the possibility of Kuvakei winning. I, Lord Vaari, earl of Sosan VII, founder and despot of the Imperial Pharmacy, golden mountain, liberator of the Providence, bane of witches and archbishop of the Church of Providence know very well the situation of this war. Sansha Kuvakei, the grand heretic does not have sufficent military power for even small skirmish againt our glorious Empire.


quite the contrary, only a total fool believes himself immune to failure. perhaps you need to take a look at the current known deployments of Sansha's nation forces - as well as at Baxter's statement currently they are in effective operations in 7 constellations including 2 Minmatar territories, one concord territory and two Amarrian territories - they have just been removed from a third Amarrian territory not long prior to this post - and in fact appear to hit your turf in very close vicinity to your throne worlds on a weekly basis. the arrogance of one of your naval commanders cost you dearly during the first year I would advise you not to repeat his mistake, Amarr is in just as much danger as the rest of us.
Rek Jaiga
Teraa Matar
#20 - 2011-09-21 18:45:47 UTC
ValentinaDLM wrote:
When push comes to shove, I think we all know what side I will be on. That side is also by and large the same side my friends and crewmembers are on, however my family isn't....yet.


You too are infected and damned to wake up to that terrible white morning?
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