Player Features and Ideas Discussion

With all the high slots marauders have why not put them to use and give them a "Assaulter" module that boosts combat over instead of tank like the "Bastion" mainly does.

Give it a shorter duration with either a high cap usage or reduced cap recharge while active to help balance it out

Purpose would be to choose what you want when you want, either tank when needed or dps when needed.


On the same note you could even go on and give it a "MWD" bonus to it, give it a agility bonus and allow movement but prevent warp.

Take away the anti ECM bonus and allow assistance, as it would be a dps module and not a tank module it would have no bonus to tank but have a sig increase and mass increase or something to even out the movement capability the module gives it.

I personally think a module along these lines [Not this exact module] would make it very viable for pvp and people with the isk would fly it.


Something like this would allow the bastion module to be more balanced toward Pve/bait tanks and still allow the Marauders to have a option for combat in pvp and such.

I'm pretty sure the devs considered the vargur's damage type flexibility when they were working on the changes. If you want a game where the vargur has the same damage/range as the paladin AND capless weapons AND better tracking AND selective damage types....go find another game. Until then, try to be content that the vargur should rip through all but sansha/blood rats quicker than a paladin ( and that depending on the range).

What I did was to put your demands in the perspective. You cry that Vargur gets "only" 14,6% of falloff from bastion, while I point that 2 TC and bastion give overall 87% falloff bonus, 180% from gun's base range without hull bonus.

At the same time, while you denounce "unfair" 17,4% bastion's optimal bonus on Paladin, I note that again, 2 TC and bastion give it combined 53,3% bonus to optimal, 110% from gun's base.

I skipped considering optimal on ACs and fallof on Mega Pulses because this is not the point. The point is that while I am not sure if the situation pictured above is balanced or not, I am damn sure that proper balancing takes much more than just comparing 14,6 to 17,4.



Gah, my argumentation is inconsistent indeed. This is embarassing. Ok, let me recap. My claims and objections are as follows:

1. When no stacking penalties are considered, 1:1 split is fair.
2. When taking stacking into full extent, I can be argued that 1:2 split is fair too, however I object claims that it's the only proper way.
3. In practice, bastion's effect on guns range is weak at best and negligible at worst, thus it doesn't matter what is actual split of bonuses, as long as they themselves aren't too powerful (unstacked for example). Because of this argument I believe it to be a mistake to try to treat bastion as a serious range improving module. This aspect is a cherry on top and shouldn't be factored into normal operational range.
4. I object the claim that Vargur is at serious disadvantage compared to other marauders, whether bastioned or not, without any kind of practical proof. If your only argument about it is that it looks bad in EFT, my interest in this discussion ends here.



Not really. Or rather, it depends. For ACs optimal bonus is worthless. To have actual effect it would have to be outrageously big, like unstacked 100% or more.



Of course, if we were playing apples counting game. But we play a game involving spaceships floating in kind of aetheric fluid and shooting each other, where the net effect depends on no less than dozen parameters last time I counted. Now we can go full monty and start analyzing those parameters, what is their influence and how they interact. If you're into that, go ahead, just don't get me involved because I find it counterproductive and extremely boring. Instead, I prefer to measure this net effect, which may still be not too easy to do but definitely is less complex.



Glad you raised this issue because this is what we would talk about if you happened to provide the data I asked for.

But first, the focus is not on me (hmskrecik) but on you (chaosgrimm). My question was on what your data have you based your conclusions? The thing is, hmskrecik has been flying both Kronos and Vargur and found both awesome and bastion very useful. Now chaosgrimm is claiming that Vargur has been effectively nerfed, because of bastion. So the obvious question is what chaosgrimm was doing and what were this doing effects, on which he bases his claim? The only sort of answer received so far was that hmskrecik flies his Vargur wrong. Even if it was sort of proper argument (it is not), it does not even answer how much wrong?

And if you're really interested in my error margin, it's rather big. I measure as accurate as I can but upon flying numerous missions I learned that even in quite similar conditions the tick value or ISK/hr can vary as much as 10% thus if two ships have performance difference within this margin, I assume them practically equal. I think that my current skills and experience allow me to lower this margin to 5% but I'm also grinding missions not as much as I used to, so I have no base for proper calibration.

By the same token, yes, if you were able to show that certain two ships or certain two fittings yield 25% performance difference then yes, you'd get my full attention. Even on claiming 15% you'd get my ear but still it would have to be shown as a difference in performance on live server.