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So Drones do CAUSE LAG... Interesting..

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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#161 - 2014-01-25 02:25:44 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:


I asked why you're not fielding a carrier ball of your own, not dreads.

I mean obviously carriers aren't defensive only, we've taken more than a few systems with them.

So why won't the CFC runs just run around with 700+ carriers that you should easily be able to field burning down the countryside?

From what Baltec, James, and yourself are saying it should be virtually impossible to stop you if you'd just do that.


But you're not doing that are you, I wonder why that is.


They are going to be nerfed, and by the looks of it very soon.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#162 - 2014-01-25 02:25:54 UTC
Andski wrote:
All this ******** talk about gun splitting assumes that the slowcat pilots aren't going to notice that a bunch of tornadoes are yellowboxing them and overheat hardeners, that the slowcat pilots are all flying T2 tanked archons without bonuses, and that the DPS of the tornado fleet isn't being eroded every 3-4 seconds



Assuming we're not running a passive tank like we normally do now, you're likely to already have your hardeners on, and running, which means you can't overheat till the next cycle, which almost assuredly falls after the yellowboxing tornado's fire.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#163 - 2014-01-25 02:27:23 UTC  |  Edited by: PotatoOverdose
Andski wrote:
it defeats spies, it defeats everything along those lines.

God forbid you actually have to use internet spaceships to fight your internet space battles. Roll
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#164 - 2014-01-25 02:27:56 UTC
Andski wrote:
Speaking of overheating when yellowboxed what exactly do you do when a single ship with a passive targeter is about to trigger thousands of drones on you?

Drone assist defeats the overview, it defeats spies, it defeats everything along those lines. But keep being apologists~

we're not using passive targeters at all,

baltec1 wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:


I asked why you're not fielding a carrier ball of your own, not dreads.

I mean obviously carriers aren't defensive only, we've taken more than a few systems with them.

So why won't the CFC runs just run around with 700+ carriers that you should easily be able to field burning down the countryside?

From what Baltec, James, and yourself are saying it should be virtually impossible to stop you if you'd just do that.


But you're not doing that are you, I wonder why that is.


They are going to be nerfed, and by the looks of it very soon.


So you'll be not forming Domis anymore since those will be nerfed or what exactly are you sayin here Baltec, that the CFC hasn't used an invincible carrier blob because it might get nerfed or that you're not using them because theres a counter that we not only know about but would use.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Mario Putzo
#165 - 2014-01-25 02:28:59 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:

Using two groups of 4 guns can't be that much of a mental exertion, even for CFC linemembers.


Its a surefire way of killing nothing.

Given that it's pretty common practice......lol.


Don't worry an hour ago he learned that a group of 100 well skilled (as in SP) Tornados can Alpha Archons. Takes a while to process that information.

Filling up with Bee tears in here now. Should be a fun friday at work!



100 nados do not have the firepower to alpha a carrier.


How much Isk do you want to put on that?
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#166 - 2014-01-25 02:30:55 UTC
Hold on, before you get him off on some other tangent, I would like a simple answer to a question from Baltec:

If carriers are harder than woodpeckers lips like he suggests, why isn't the CFC fielding its own carrier blob to take systems like PL/N3 is doing?

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#167 - 2014-01-25 02:31:29 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Andski wrote:
Speaking of overheating when yellowboxed what exactly do you do when a single ship with a passive targeter is about to trigger thousands of drones on you?

Drone assist defeats the overview, it defeats spies, it defeats everything along those lines. But keep being apologists~

we're not using passive targeters at all,

baltec1 wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:


I asked why you're not fielding a carrier ball of your own, not dreads.

I mean obviously carriers aren't defensive only, we've taken more than a few systems with them.

So why won't the CFC runs just run around with 700+ carriers that you should easily be able to field burning down the countryside?

From what Baltec, James, and yourself are saying it should be virtually impossible to stop you if you'd just do that.


But you're not doing that are you, I wonder why that is.


They are going to be nerfed, and by the looks of it very soon.


So you'll be not forming Domis anymore since those will be nerfed

Of course they'll be nerfed.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#168 - 2014-01-25 02:33:00 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
How much Isk do you want to put on that?


100 tornadoes might kill an untanked carrier, but not a slowcat

thanks for playing you can send 5bn to this character

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#169 - 2014-01-25 02:34:18 UTC
So no answer to the 'Wheres the CFC carrier blob?" then?

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#170 - 2014-01-25 02:35:49 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:


So you'll be not forming Domis anymore since those will be nerfed or what exactly are you sayin here Baltec, that the CFC hasn't used an invincible carrier blob because it might get nerfed or that you're not using them because theres a counter that we not only know about but would use.


CCP are not only changing drones right now but have also stated that they will be looking into them further. If domi get a nerf and something is better then we will adapt. Unlike you, we have not put all of our faith into a handful of overpowered ships used in a single fleet tactic. Its WN all over again.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#171 - 2014-01-25 02:38:22 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:


So you'll be not forming Domis anymore since those will be nerfed or what exactly are you sayin here Baltec, that the CFC hasn't used an invincible carrier blob because it might get nerfed or that you're not using them because theres a counter that we not only know about but would use.


CCP are not only changing drones right now but have also stated that they will be looking into them further. If domi get a nerf and something is better then we will adapt. Unlike you, we have not put all of our faith into a handful of overpowered ships used in a single fleet tactic. Its WN all over again.


Its a simple question you seem to be dodging Baltec

If Boot carriers are so strong where is the CFC carrier blob taking systems like the n3/PL carrier blob?

This should be easy, there should be an easy answer right at your fignertips to give here but so far you, Andski, and James have all just ignored it like its not a thing.

Like I said, its like theres a counter that you know exists, or at least know your enemy knows exists and you're afraid of losing a carrier fleet because of it.

I mean is there some reason the Goon is holding back from using what you're describing as EVE's ultimate weapon?

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#172 - 2014-01-25 02:41:16 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:


So you'll be not forming Domis anymore since those will be nerfed or what exactly are you sayin here Baltec, that the CFC hasn't used an invincible carrier blob because it might get nerfed or that you're not using them because theres a counter that we not only know about but would use.


CCP are not only changing drones right now but have also stated that they will be looking into them further. If domi get a nerf and something is better then we will adapt. Unlike you, we have not put all of our faith into a handful of overpowered ships used in a single fleet tactic. Its WN all over again.


Its a simple question you seem to be dodging Baltec

If Boot carriers are so strong where is the CFC carrier blob taking systems like the n3/PL carrier blob?

This should be easy, there should be an easy answer right at your fignertips to give here but so far you, Andski, and James have all just ignored it like its not a thing.

Like I said, its like theres a counter that you know exists, or at least know your enemy knows exists and you're afraid of losing a carrier fleet because of it.

I mean is there some reason the Goon is holding back from using what you're describing as EVE's ultimate weapon?



We have the counter, the servers cannot handle it though.

We wont be putting all of our eggs into the carrier basket because they are going to be nerfed, just like the last five times when capitals were invulnerable to subcaps.
Mario Putzo
#173 - 2014-01-25 02:42:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Mario Putzo
Andski wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
How much Isk do you want to put on that?


100 tornadoes might kill an untanked carrier, but not a slowcat

thanks for playing you can send 5bn to this character


No one specified what type of carrier we were talking about.

The PL Slow Fit can not be alpha'd by 100 Nados (that requires about 125 with perfect skills)

But, a Damage Fit Carrier can be, a Rep fit Carrier can be, A travel fit Carrier can be, and yes an Untanked carrier can be alpha'd by 100 Nados.

So ill take 5BN thanks.

thankfully though if the Carrier is fit according to the PL slow profile...they won't be blapping 6 dudes every Arty cycle, they might get 3 dudes if they are lucky...so the 250 F1 and F2 monkeys in Nados can pop 2 carriers for every 3 dudes they lose. Which means for 1K (4 fleets) you should be able to pop 8 Carriers for every 12 you lose...I am sure CFC logistics is capable of keeping a constant stream of Nados coming back to the fight.


Also everything is dramatically more effective if you spice it up with some Void Bombs.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#174 - 2014-01-25 02:46:19 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
Andski wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
How much Isk do you want to put on that?


100 tornadoes might kill an untanked carrier, but not a slowcat

thanks for playing you can send 5bn to this character


No one specified what we were talking about.

The PL Slow Fit can not be hit killed by 100 Nados (that requires about 125 with perfect skills)

But, a Damage Fit Carrier can be, a Rep fit Carrier can be, A travel fit Carrier can be, and yes an Untanked carrier can be alpha'd by 100 Nados.

So ill take 5BN thanks.

thankfully though if the Carrier is fit according to the PL slow profile...they won't be blapping 6 dudes every Arty cycle, they might get 3 dudes if they are lucky...so the 250 F1 and F2 monkeys in Nados can pop 2 carriers for every 3 dudes they lose.


"as a hisec miner, let me theorycraft a capital battle for you"

Hint you're wrong on all counts because "travel fit" carriers don't ******* exist in a capital battle

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#175 - 2014-01-25 02:46:42 UTC
baltec1 wrote:


We wont be putting all of our eggs into the carrier basket because they are going to be nerfed, just like the last five times when capitals were invulnerable to subcaps.


Wait, are you calling your leader a liar because he went on for over a year talking about putting a Boot in every hangar, so I'm going to go ahead and believe him since we've seen the Goon Boot fleet in Fountain.


So if you're done lying, why don't you answer the question, and let me word it for you in a way that leaves no room for error:

We've seen the Boot fleet, we know the CFC has one. We know you moved NINE HUNDRED caps into the theater here in the south so we know you have this many capital capable pilots who simply need to plug in a skill book should they not be carrier ready, so then why is the fleet of carriers that we know that the CFC can field not out taking systems since they can't be stopped?


This isn't hard Baltec, you don't have to keep dodging the question like this, you're starting to look a little silly here, you've managed to call Mittani a liar and then refuse to answer a very simple question.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#176 - 2014-01-25 02:48:07 UTC
Andski wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
Andski wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
How much Isk do you want to put on that?


100 tornadoes might kill an untanked carrier, but not a slowcat

thanks for playing you can send 5bn to this character


No one specified what we were talking about.

The PL Slow Fit can not be hit killed by 100 Nados (that requires about 125 with perfect skills)

But, a Damage Fit Carrier can be, a Rep fit Carrier can be, A travel fit Carrier can be, and yes an Untanked carrier can be alpha'd by 100 Nados.

So ill take 5BN thanks.

thankfully though if the Carrier is fit according to the PL slow profile...they won't be blapping 6 dudes every Arty cycle, they might get 3 dudes if they are lucky...so the 250 F1 and F2 monkeys in Nados can pop 2 carriers for every 3 dudes they lose.


"as a hisec miner, let me theorycraft a capital battle for you"

Hint you're wrong on all counts because "travel fit" carriers don't ******* exist in a capital battle


Thanks for ignoring my simple question, it doesn't at all undermine your argument at all to dodge it like that

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#177 - 2014-01-25 02:48:23 UTC
"Snipe them with tornadoes when they're moving their cap fit carriers, this is how you will win" - mario putzo

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#178 - 2014-01-25 02:51:14 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Thanks for ignoring my simple question, it doesn't at all undermine your argument at all to dodge it like that


you should ask your friends in Fountain why we're not throwing around carrier fleets

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
PinkPanter
Valhalla Drinking Team
#179 - 2014-01-25 02:51:23 UTC  |  Edited by: PinkPanter
So from reading this whole thread only conclusion I get is Goons will never fight unless they are comfortably 3-1 and out of range so they will not loose a single ship.
No matter what doctrines will change for goons will always be same. We have to throw 3 times more players on the grid or we'll cry for nerf.

Nerf this nerf that it's all babies cry. They can not play this game. They suck so they try to nerf it.

Bejebus this actually deserves a long article on gamasutra, kotaku and all over game world or something. First time in history 50K blue players are scared of pixels.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#180 - 2014-01-25 02:53:03 UTC
Andski wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
Thanks for ignoring my simple question, it doesn't at all undermine your argument at all to dodge it like that


you should ask your friends in Fountain why we're not throwing around carrier fleets


I don't have any friends in Fountain but way to dodge the question yet again.


Carrier fleets, so invincible that the CFC wont explain why they're not using them.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.