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So Drones do CAUSE LAG... Interesting..

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PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#121 - 2014-01-25 01:41:22 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
You just need to alpha one Archon and then you can go home because you've won.

Well...if you have 800 maelstroms....and you need 250 maelstroms to volley an archon, it will take the archons a fair bit of time to get you below 250 maels, and in that time you'll volley a fair few archons.

Furthermore, since we know both sides have huge stockpiles of ships:
Andski wrote:

Both sides have huge caches of replacement capitals, so that's irrelevant.

You can just reship and bridge in more maels once you start approaching that 250 figure.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#122 - 2014-01-25 01:41:26 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:


So you're stating publicly that 250 Maelstroms can't alpha an Archon?


Please say thats what you're saying.


I plan ahead of killing the first carrier.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#123 - 2014-01-25 01:42:19 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Andski wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
The idea of being at 180k is so that they don't take losses at all, its cute, they want to kill capitals with zero risk or effort simply by virtue of outnumbering their opponent and they seem to think nobody will notice.


No, because being any closer means that the nados will be volleyed as fast as the drone trigger can cycle his TP. If we were to compensate for that and sit closer, we'd have to bring in more nados than the node could handle.


Actually your damage would be higher closer

So would yours.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#124 - 2014-01-25 01:44:22 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
So would yours.


It doesn't matter because with their slowcat numbers they'll instapop Tornadoes at 160km or 40km all the same.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#125 - 2014-01-25 01:44:37 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
Andski wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
The idea of being at 180k is so that they don't take losses at all, its cute, they want to kill capitals with zero risk or effort simply by virtue of outnumbering their opponent and they seem to think nobody will notice.


No, because being any closer means that the nados will be volleyed as fast as the drone trigger can cycle his TP. If we were to compensate for that and sit closer, we'd have to bring in more nados than the node could handle.


Actually your damage would be higher closer

So would yours.


Considering we do 0 damage to you at 180km then yes, more than 0 would be higher, so we're back to the part where you want to kill a capital without taking any damage or losing any ships.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#126 - 2014-01-25 01:45:41 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
Considering we do 0 damage to you at 180km then yes, more than 0 would be higher, so we're back to the part where you want to kill a capital without taking any damage or losing any ships.


You don't form up 800+ Tornadoes with the goal of killing a single ******* carrier hth

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#127 - 2014-01-25 01:46:31 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Andski wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
So would yours.


It doesn't matter because with their slowcat numbers they'll instapop Tornadoes at 160km or 40km all the same.

At closer ranges they could use higher damage drones in combination with multiple drone triggers to alpha more Tornados simultaneously.

Wings 1 and 2 assist to this guy, wings 3 and 4 assist to this other guy, wing 5 assist to this third guy.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Shiti Dama
Hull Zero Two
#128 - 2014-01-25 01:47:01 UTC
Andski wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
Considering we do 0 damage to you at 180km then yes, more than 0 would be higher, so we're back to the part where you want to kill a capital without taking any damage or losing any ships.


You don't form up 800+ Tornadoes with the goal of killing a single ******* carrier hth


Same goes for Dominixes
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#129 - 2014-01-25 01:47:24 UTC
"No guys you really need to lose 100 tornadoes between every arty volley otherwise you're dirty cowards"

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#130 - 2014-01-25 01:49:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Grath Telkin
Andski wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
Considering we do 0 damage to you at 180km then yes, more than 0 would be higher, so we're back to the part where you want to kill a capital without taking any damage or losing any ships.


You don't form up 800+ Tornadoes with the goal of killing a single ******* carrier hth


No of course not, you form up 800 tornados with the goal of killing 4 carriers at a time, and if you fit properly/group your guns properly/fire properly you're doing that every 10 seconds or so compared to the carriers that generally run off a single trigger for 250 carriers.

Andski wrote:
"No guys you really need to lose 100 tornadoes between every arty volley otherwise you're dirty cowards"


I'll wait right here while you come up with the carrier that kills 100 tornado's inside the volley of that same tornado.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Leigh Akiga
Kuhri Innovations
#131 - 2014-01-25 01:52:09 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
No of course not, you form up 800 tornados with the goal of killing 4 carriers at a time, and if you fit properly/group your guns properly/fire properly you're doing that every 10 seconds or so compared to the carriers that generally run off a single trigger for 250 carriers


And do all that while dodging bomb runs dun dun dun
Mario Putzo
#132 - 2014-01-25 01:54:49 UTC
Andski wrote:
"No guys you really need to lose 100 tornadoes between every arty volley otherwise you're dirty cowards"


Actually you would lose 6 at the most. It takes 1 second to lock minimum, 1 second for the Drone assist to cycle something, 1 second for the drones to respond. That is 3 seconds. For the initial target.

Granted they could have multiple drone assists, which isn't unreasonable. In order to kill 100 dudes in the 2 seconds it takes you guys to kill the first carrier they would need to have about 23 drone assist dudes, with enough drones each to volley through about 10KEHP.

I am sure you guys have some knuckle draggers who can't fly Tornados, I wonder what would happen if something like a Celestis support fleet was there. Heck with 50 of them you could shut down all 23 of those drone assist dudes.

Hell you could have 50 dudes show up in ibiss with an ECM and jam the **** out of all 23 drone assist dudes....and Ibis are free.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#133 - 2014-01-25 01:55:03 UTC
Leigh Akiga wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
No of course not, you form up 800 tornados with the goal of killing 4 carriers at a time, and if you fit properly/group your guns properly/fire properly you're doing that every 10 seconds or so compared to the carriers that generally run off a single trigger for 250 carriers


And do all that while dodging bomb runs dun dun dun


A counter doesn't become "not a counter" because there are counters to the counter, its called 'balance", otherwise people would just fly around in 800 tornado's all day because nothing stops it.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#134 - 2014-01-25 01:55:33 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
No of course not, you form up 800 tornados with the goal of killing 4 carriers at a time, and if you fit properly/group your guns properly/fire properly you're doing that every 10 seconds or so compared to the carriers that generally run off a single trigger for 250 carriers.


Show me the Tornado that cycles 1400s every 10 seconds

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Mario Putzo
#135 - 2014-01-25 01:58:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Mario Putzo
Andski wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
No of course not, you form up 800 tornados with the goal of killing 4 carriers at a time, and if you fit properly/group your guns properly/fire properly you're doing that every 10 seconds or so compared to the carriers that generally run off a single trigger for 250 carriers.


Show me the Tornado that cycles 1400s every 10 seconds


You don't need to use all 8 guns on each ship...

Also Grath why are you helping them understand how to beat you?
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#136 - 2014-01-25 02:00:33 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:

You don't need to use all 8 guns on each ship...


You have never been in a fleet have you?
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#137 - 2014-01-25 02:01:15 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
Hell you could have 50 dudes show up in ibiss with an ECM and jam the **** out of all 23 drone assist dudes....and Ibis are free.


Point out the drone triggers:

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Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Leigh Akiga
Kuhri Innovations
#138 - 2014-01-25 02:01:24 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
otherwise people would just fly around in 800 tornado's all day because nothing stops it


or 300 archons
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#139 - 2014-01-25 02:03:27 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:

You don't need to use all 8 guns on each ship...


You have never been in a fleet have you?

Using two groups of 4 guns can't be that much of a mental exertion, even for CFC linemembers.
Mario Putzo
#140 - 2014-01-25 02:05:36 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:

You don't need to use all 8 guns on each ship...


You have never been in a fleet have you?


You have never been in an Alpha fleet trying to maximize its popping power have you....oh of course not because Alpha fleets aren't realistic.

you only need the amount of damage you need anything else is wasted if you only need 4 guns with 250 dudes, that means those 250 dudes can blap 2 at a time, Or roughly about 75% of the activation time total or about 10 seconds as Grath pointed out.

Math is indeed a hard subject though.