Assembly Hall

Hello.

Reimbursement policy is missing some important information.

HED fight was classified as Large-scale player engagement and :
"Any losses of any kind resulting from a large-scale player engagement are not covered by this reimbursement policy."

1. Can CCP be more precise and define what is "large-scale player engagement".
Is this means for example local bigger than 300 people or 300 people shooting.

2. How normal player can protect itself from being a part of something that is against CCP policy.
We cannot know :
- what is on the another side of the gate , cyno in case of capitals
- if someone else will jump in into the system

3. Can we get some popup that will state before entering system :
- "You are about to enter Large-Scale player engagement that is against CCP reimbursement policy and not supported by EVE. Do you want to execute the jump. Yes/No"
or when you are in the system:
- "Current system escalated to Large-Scale player engagement that is against CCP reimbursement policy and not supported by EVE.
Do you want to continue to be here or do you want your ship to be moved to the nearest safe system. Yes/No"

Yes i know " do not undock ".
But i ask for clarification from CCP employee and answers how player can defend himself from being in some events that are not supported and against official CCP Policy.

Thank you for your answer.

You are almost in every point.
But can you state what is "large-scale player engagement"?

If this is a 1000vs1000 people fighting OR 2000 people on local OR 2000 people on the same node in multiple systems.
Difference?
2000 on local you can have in Jita - and there is always people shooting each other on the station.
They all are part of large scale engagement

Maybe we don't have to go to thousands of players, and large - scale player engagement for CCP starts from 255 players.

We have no guarantee that at some point someone will not abuse "large-scale player engagement" and deny some player reimbursement because of some obvious bug during 70 vs 40 fight.

I don't see any harm in asking CCP for a definition of LSPE .
Clear rules will never do any one harm - they will also cut speculations.

Edit:
Additionally why are you stating that large-scale fights are supported by EVE.
They are possible , but as unsupported feature - and because of this CCP don't reimburse any looses.
No one normal will ask for reimbursement because someone destroyed my ship - people will be asking because some mechanic is bugged during those fights - and those mechanics cause loose of this person ship.

So in my interpretation CCP say something like this :


I want to know what is the definition of Large Scale player interaction that CCP consider unsupported , and how player can say NO to this kind of event.


Those are very simple and logical questions - and only CCP can give response to them.

Thats why i'm asking for support from CSM in getting answers.

Good rule of thumb:

When TiDi kicks in -> Large scale fight


Basically OP, any company in any industry is going to keep some of their policies vague on purpose. It gives them flexibility in what they can say or do.
In this case... a large scale fight can be pretty much anything, yes. But I don't think the GMs are that spiteful and/or lazy that they would declare any battle a "large scale fight" and be done with it (though, I can imagine it being very tempting sometimes).

If this can never satisfy you... well... "HTFU." Accept any loss you take regardlesss whether you or CCP were at fault.

You already have a clear statement from CCP-

"Any losses of any kind resulting from a large-scale player engagement are not covered by this reimbursement policy."

Do you lack an understanding of the concept of intentional vagueness? Do you understand the need for intentional vagueness?

Let's see if this will suffice - all reimbursement requests will be evaluated on a case by case basis.

I dunno why you folks keep spamming this. The policy is clear, one could be entiteled to a reinbursement only in case of some server bug (if you can prove it):



basically very few scenarios are covered: node or server crashing du to some bug (not simple overload) and similar.

The large-scale battle thing steps in only to enforce the concept that even if you can prove there was some bug will NOT be considerated if happened in some massive battle.



So, in the first place, you have to run in a bug if you want to try to ask a reimboursement.

The flow is:

#1. were you victim of a bug or server error?
1a) Yes -> goto #2
1b) No - > deal with it

#2. where you in a large fleet engagment?
2a) yes -> deal with it
2b) no -> maybe you' are entiteled to a reimboursement

HED is typical scenario where nobody is entiteled to any reimboursement. Any half experienced EVE player know how CCP handle this. If your blob leaders or FC are telling you something different (and pushing yout o spam EVE forum) then they're either incompetents or liars; in both cases better to drop them.

The root problem is that it isn't always numbers in system that cause the instability. A relatively small number of people can spike Time Dilation by all jumping a gate at once, or all undocking at once, etc., but that's not an issue because it's just a spike, and it's well within what the system can handle.

Let's say you get to HED-GP before RUS/CFC do. You get your dialog box saying, hey, you can jump into system. We got this! So you jump, go wherever you're going, and suddenly 1700 more ships on grid. Boom, you're in a large-scale fight, and one side just hit the system much harder than Time Dilation can handle, and you and lots of other people are under lag. CCP can no longer guarantee the performance of the system because of actions taken by the players that overloaded it, and you get no reimbursement.

Basically, the causes of large-scale fights are too dynamic to predict. By the time it's obvious that you're in one, you're in it. Don't fly what you can't afford to lose.

Er, yes, that was my point.