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So Drones do CAUSE LAG... Interesting..

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SFM Hobb3s
Perkone
Caldari State
#41 - 2014-01-24 22:34:42 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
AOE damage on all ship and missile explosions will solve the drone-induced lag issue.




Road to good intentions and all...this will likely make things FAR worse. Can you imagine how much more work you'll be putting on the node when it has to account for the AOE damage of every missile? Potentially thousands of missiles, having to account for what's in the explosion radius of each one...You're gonna make those Hamsters strike...Pirate
ElQuirko
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#42 - 2014-01-24 22:35:56 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
ElQuirko wrote:
Find a counter to sentries

Counters to sentries only work when ships hold a reasonably small number of them. When you have ships that can hold 3,200 sentries each, the counter isn't exactly viable anymore.


Why is it not viable? Is it because you are inconvenienced by time? What about the guy being inconvenienced by having his 2Bil Carrier and 3 Bil in Sentries (rough estimate for a full drone bay) alpha'd off the field by dreads or battleships?

what about the people who only have a thousand dudes in their entire alliance. What counters 2000 man mega fleets...should they just have to roll over and die off or should they take a lesson from GSF and just Blue everything in sight?

The n+1 mentality some of you have really needs to go.

You lot need to recruit this man and let him do some planning for you.

Dodixie > Hek
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#43 - 2014-01-24 22:36:12 UTC
ElQuirko wrote:
drop the supercapitals. It's what they're for.

That would require non risk-averse behavior tho. Much easier to sign a pretty document and slowly back out of the room while your "allies" get mopped up. Twisted
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#44 - 2014-01-24 22:37:17 UTC
ElQuirko wrote:

Using the magical tool known as reading, you would soon discover that the age-old doctrine of the supercap blob, the workhorse of old null, seems to be a pretty decent option in this case.

That, or, as mentioned about three times now, use omegafleet. Take out those carriers from outside of sentry range and negate the amount of lag - you're practically doing the world a favour.


We did use omega fleet. Unfortunately the servers cannot handle the sheer amount of drones that are getting tossed about. So until that gets dealt with there isn't anything you can do against a blob of carriers.
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#45 - 2014-01-24 22:40:08 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
ElQuirko wrote:

Using the magical tool known as reading, you would soon discover that the age-old doctrine of the supercap blob, the workhorse of old null, seems to be a pretty decent option in this case.

That, or, as mentioned about three times now, use omegafleet. Take out those carriers from outside of sentry range and negate the amount of lag - you're practically doing the world a favour.


We did use omega fleet. Unfortunately the servers cannot handle the sheer amount of drones that are getting tossed about. So until that gets dealt with there isn't anything you can do against a blob of carriers.


Maybe bring in omegafleet before the 1000 domis? I mean if 1000 domis loaded grid, maybe 500 nags and 500 domis could also load grid. Just saying....Roll
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#46 - 2014-01-24 22:41:26 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:


Maybe bring in omegafleet before the 1000 domis? I mean if 1000 domis loaded grid, maybe 500 nags and 500 domis could also load grid. Just saying....Roll


Cyno jammers cause issues with cynos. Just saying...
Mario Putzo
#47 - 2014-01-24 22:44:16 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:


Maybe bring in omegafleet before the 1000 domis? I mean if 1000 domis loaded grid, maybe 500 nags and 500 domis could also load grid. Just saying....Roll


Cyno jammers cause issues with cynos. Just saying...


good thing mobile jammers don't cover the whole grid....let alone system.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#48 - 2014-01-24 22:45:43 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:


Maybe bring in omegafleet before the 1000 domis? I mean if 1000 domis loaded grid, maybe 500 nags and 500 domis could also load grid. Just saying....Roll


Cyno jammers cause issues with cynos. Just saying...


good thing mobile jammers don't cover the whole grid....let alone system.

Of course not, but if you cyno out of the jammer range you're essentially allowing the enemy fleet to dictate your positioning. Kill the jammer and you can position wherever you want.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#49 - 2014-01-24 22:46:55 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:


Maybe bring in omegafleet before the 1000 domis? I mean if 1000 domis loaded grid, maybe 500 nags and 500 domis could also load grid. Just saying....Roll


Cyno jammers cause issues with cynos. Just saying...

What's the range on a cynojammer? How big is a solar system? Drop 500 nags and 500 domis somewhere else. All of their caps, supers, and titans were bubbled. Weren't going anywhere. Hostile subcap support was light, certainly not a match for your 500 domis. Then use amazing warp function to land on grid. Much hard.
Gary Bell
Therapy.
Brave Collective
#50 - 2014-01-24 22:47:34 UTC
LOL for those of you who live in empire.. Supers dont counter slowcats either fyi... Every single carrier has at least one smartbomb ready to be refit.. And do I have to tell you what happens to Fighters and Fighter Bombers when they run into a carrier blob of 300 each with 2 smartbombs...

Hell in that case.. I demand super rebalance.. Super should have Sentry bombers and should be able to carry 3500 of em?

Seems legit..

Right now there is no counter to the carrier blob that the server can handle..

Titans are nice in thought but the issues is there are to many carriers.. If we played in a lag free fight where proper nag alpha could be used.. titans would die yes.. but carriers would keep coming in one by the hundreds... Not to mention 300 sentry carriers in 0 lag can prob alpha 2 and 3 dreads at a time..

So moral of the story..

Despite what the all knowing Grath says drones do cause lag.. and right now there is no counter to what there doing that the server can handle..

If we did drop 800 dreads and no subs into a slowcat fight they would simply drop 100s of drones till the node crashes.. there simply is no fix or counter
Dorian Wylde
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#51 - 2014-01-24 22:48:56 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
AOE damage on all ship and missile explosions will solve the drone-induced lag issue.




And create new missile induced lag issues when the server has to calculate all the new aoe damage.
Gary Bell
Therapy.
Brave Collective
#52 - 2014-01-24 22:48:57 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:


Maybe bring in omegafleet before the 1000 domis? I mean if 1000 domis loaded grid, maybe 500 nags and 500 domis could also load grid. Just saying....Roll


Cyno jammers cause issues with cynos. Just saying...

What's the range on a cynojammer? How big is a solar system? Drop 500 nags and 500 domis somewhere else. All of their caps, supers, and titans were bubbled. Weren't going anywhere. Hostile subcap support was light, certainly not a match for your 500 domis. Then use amazing warp function to land on grid. Much hard.


You must make lots of isk in highsec lol..

There is no warping in 10 percent tidi with 10k drones deployed and 4k people in system
Mario Putzo
#53 - 2014-01-24 22:50:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Mario Putzo
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
PotatoOverdose wrote:


Maybe bring in omegafleet before the 1000 domis? I mean if 1000 domis loaded grid, maybe 500 nags and 500 domis could also load grid. Just saying....Roll


Cyno jammers cause issues with cynos. Just saying...


good thing mobile jammers don't cover the whole grid....let alone system.

Of course not, but if you cyno out of the jammer range you're essentially allowing the enemy fleet to dictate your positioning. Kill the jammer and you can position wherever you want.


you mean you don'thave LR dread comps that can alpha carriers outside of 100K? I mean there are numerous BS comps that can do this. Or are you unable to warp to a ping on grid with CR dreads from 150K+ away? Cyno 200K off...warp down to bubbled carrier fleet with CR dreads, or cyno in at your LR optimals...

Not difficult.

Heck why you lot didn't just cyno on the SBU and DPS race is a noodle scratcher too.
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#54 - 2014-01-24 22:52:32 UTC  |  Edited by: PotatoOverdose
Gary Bell wrote:


You must make lots of isk in highsec lol..

There is no warping in 10 percent tidi with 10k drones deployed and 4k people in system

Haven't lived in hisec in 5 years bro. PLN3 brought ~1k people. 1k+500 domis+500 nags = 2k. Not 4k. Math much hard.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#55 - 2014-01-24 22:54:24 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:


you mean you don'thave LR dread comps that can alpha carriers outside of 100K? Or are you unable to warp to a ping on grid with CR dreads from 150K+ away? Cyno 200K off...warp down to bubbled carrier fleet with CR dreads, or cyno in at your LR optimals...

Not difficult.

Heck why you lot didn't just cyno on the SBU and DPS race is a noodle scratcher too.



Jump in dread fleet, dread fleet gets jumped on by counter cyno as they align and bubbled. Dread fleet is now stuck on the wrong grid and unable to dictate anything.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#56 - 2014-01-24 22:57:20 UTC
Gary Bell wrote:
LOL for those of you who live in empire.. Supers dont counter slowcats either fyi... Every single carrier has at least one smartbomb ready to be refit.. And do I have to tell you what happens to Fighters and Fighter Bombers when they run into a carrier blob of 300 each with 2 smartbombs...

Hell in that case.. I demand super rebalance.. Super should have Sentry bombers and should be able to carry 3500 of em?

Seems legit..

Right now there is no counter to the carrier blob that the server can handle..

Titans are nice in thought but the issues is there are to many carriers.. If we played in a lag free fight where proper nag alpha could be used.. titans would die yes.. but carriers would keep coming in one by the hundreds... Not to mention 300 sentry carriers in 0 lag can prob alpha 2 and 3 dreads at a time..

So moral of the story..

Despite what the all knowing Grath says drones do cause lag.. and right now there is no counter to what there doing that the server can handle..

If we did drop 800 dreads and no subs into a slowcat fight they would simply drop 100s of drones till the node crashes.. there simply is no fix or counter


Well at least now we know why all of BL makes fun of Wrecking Shots.


I suggest you go back and re read my posts, to the letter, and see how what I actually said differs from what you're implying I said.

We can go on to discuss how 17k more drones caused FIVE TIMES more latency and how it could very well be something larger at that point in the code like the thing that was causing node crashes that they had to fix (you know, that thing that was released in some update between 6VDT and the holloween war that cause instant node crashes when we broke 1k players in a fight) but I'm going to assume that any form of actual conversation is lost on a member of wrecking shots who's busy raging in General Discussion while misquoting me.

To clear it up for you I'll re type one of the many posts I made on the matter and see if you can see whats different from my posting and what you're implying:

You don't know if its the drones, you have zero actual proof its the drones so claiming that without any server knowledge makes you a ******


Now that the numbers have actually been released, we can see that the drones are having an adverse effect, but its not linear by any means. 40 seconds with 21k drones, you might exect to see double or triple that jumping up 17k more drones but five times the amount? That screams something else being wrong like the node crashes.

Anyway sweet Wrecking Shots guy, do feel free to gather up Baltec and James and carry on.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Anthar Thebess
#57 - 2014-01-24 23:00:58 UTC
Drones are not the issue, and we will have new capital wreck models that will solve all null sec issues.

Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists

Show your support to The Cause!
Mario Putzo
#58 - 2014-01-24 23:03:54 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:


you mean you don'thave LR dread comps that can alpha carriers outside of 100K? Or are you unable to warp to a ping on grid with CR dreads from 150K+ away? Cyno 200K off...warp down to bubbled carrier fleet with CR dreads, or cyno in at your LR optimals...

Not difficult.

Heck why you lot didn't just cyno on the SBU and DPS race is a noodle scratcher too.



Jump in dread fleet, dread fleet gets jumped on by counter cyno as they align and bubbled. Dread fleet is now stuck on the wrong grid and unable to dictate anything.


And this explains why you are short 350 dreads. You guys have no capacity in understanding capital warfare. Just an FYI Nags can shoot further than 100K so you cyno in at 110K and presto now your nags are on grid and they can begin popping Carriers. Its not rocket science.

You brought a knife to a gun fight...and then threw it on the ground and ran in swinging your arms wildly at the air.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#59 - 2014-01-24 23:08:52 UTC
Mario Putzo wrote:


And this explains why you are short 350 dreads. You guys have no capacity in understanding capital warfare. Just an FYI Nags can shoot further than 100K so you cyno in at 110K and presto now your nags are on grid and they can begin popping Carriers. Its not rocket science.

You brought a knife to a gun fight...and then threw it on the ground and ran in swinging your arms wildly at the air.


It doesnt matter what range we picked, the carriers were doing very little damage. About the only things that were working were the DDs.
Mario Putzo
#60 - 2014-01-24 23:12:47 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Mario Putzo wrote:


And this explains why you are short 350 dreads. You guys have no capacity in understanding capital warfare. Just an FYI Nags can shoot further than 100K so you cyno in at 110K and presto now your nags are on grid and they can begin popping Carriers. Its not rocket science.

You brought a knife to a gun fight...and then threw it on the ground and ran in swinging your arms wildly at the air.


It doesnt matter what range we picked, the carriers were doing very little damage. About the only things that were working were the DDs.


Was that before or after your 700Dreads spiked the node load?