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Multibox Balancing
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Aneeda
Cosmic Chemicals
#1 - 2014-01-24 08:35:52 UTC
After watching a fleet of 8 multiboxed Dominix's take down a POS in a system where I was scanning for anomolies, I finally reached my breaking point with this type of game play. Normally, to do any type of group operation in Eve, you need teamwork, cooperation and good leadership. Multiboxers get a clear advantage on this. They are essentially the Borgs of New Eden. They don't need to worry about getting a fleet together and managing player personalities and expectations. Multiboxers just click and go.

Since CCP condones multiboxing, why not make this an official part of game mechanics so that it can be balanced and controlled through the Eve client and prohibit the use of third party multiboxing software in the process.

Allow players to link their ships together in an enhanced form of fleet control, but balance it out by giving other pilots a way to attack the link between these ships and disrupt them or inject false commands into the links. There needs to be some penalty for automation. This could bring a whole new level to EWAR and still allow the players who want to build their Borg armies an outlet to do so while giving players who are piloting their own ships some advantages and tools to combat these automated fleets.
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
#2 - 2014-01-24 08:42:46 UTC
What if hes moving every Single Dominix by hand without any automation? Can you proof hes using any kind of Tools or Macros?

Meet the Mario Kart 8 - Capsuleer Club Cup
HiddenPorpoise
Jarlhettur's Drop
United Federation of Conifers
#3 - 2014-01-24 08:44:13 UTC
"We are the Goon. Lower your shields and surrender your ship. We add you to our own. Your corporation will adapt to serve us. Resistance is futile."

Solo multiboxers will just use there own thing so all you're doing is making fleets a matter of showing up and taking a nap while the FC puppets your things.
Aneeda
Cosmic Chemicals
#4 - 2014-01-24 08:48:31 UTC
Lephia DeGrande wrote:
What if hes moving every Single Dominix by hand without any automation? Can you proof hes using any kind of Tools or Macros?


Just through experience and observation. Drones usually don't all deploy at once if you are clicking each client and ships don't warp all on top of each other. But, thats besides my point. There are lots of multiboxers in Eve... from miners to mission runners. I see them every day. Even though I personally don't like it, I realize that it is condoned by CCP. I'm just looking for a way to balance the mechanic.
Aneeda
Cosmic Chemicals
#5 - 2014-01-24 08:52:46 UTC
HiddenPorpoise wrote:
"We are the Goon. Lower your shields and surrender your ship. We add you to our own. Your corporation will adapt to serve us. Resistance is futile."

Solo multiboxers will just use there own thing so all you're doing is making fleets a matter of showing up and taking a nap while the FC puppets your things.


Fleet control is just an example. The 'multiboxing' could be handled in some other interface. My main point is that it become an officially coded game mechanic so that it can in turn be balanced.
NearNihil
Jump Drive Appreciation Society
#6 - 2014-01-24 11:00:21 UTC
Aneeda wrote:
Just through experience and observation. Drones usually don't all deploy at once if you are clicking each client
True, I guess.
Aneeda wrote:
and ships don't warp all on top of each other.
This is what we have Squad Warp for.
Aneeda wrote:
But, thats besides my point. There are lots of multiboxers in Eve... from miners to mission runners. I see them every day. Even though I personally don't like it, I realize that it is condoned by CCP. I'm just looking for a way to balance the mechanic.
It's not really a game mechanic. At least, I don't call a thing that requires two separate game clients to be open a game mechanic. Besides, what are you going to do anyway? The most I've ever done is handle 4 clients at once and I felt like a confused octopus trying to solve 4 rubik's cubes while simultaneously reading Shakespeare's works. I may be slightly exaggerating, but it is confusing if you don't simplify things to have identical ships as opposed to all different ones.

And then there's ISBoxer, which I haven't used, but apparently makes multiboxing really easy. A third-party program that allows you to handle all clients as if they were one, more or less. I think your biggest beef is with this thing and not as much multiboxing as a concept.
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2014-01-24 11:15:49 UTC
I'm fine with multi-boxing, if you can control many characters at once then good luck to you!

ISBoxer (if I understand it correctly) I don't like. This lets one player have many characters perform the exact same task at once on a single command? Where is the extra effort in return fort the greater rewards? Easy solution is to check the MAC address of the connecting box at login I guess(?), and only allow one per machine
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
#8 - 2014-01-24 11:41:15 UTC
I dont like Boxer at all, but i would Never suggest to remove this possibility, on the other Hand some balancing would be fine, but forcing them into some build in gamemechanic is nearly pointless, thus who use bots, macros and such things will still missuse the Game with any possible exploit in the end, it will only harm the fair Boxers and thats simply unfair.

I like your Idea, but i can simply not see it work out.

Meet the Mario Kart 8 - Capsuleer Club Cup
Notorious Fellon
#9 - 2014-01-24 13:29:47 UTC
Ban isboxer.

Crime, it is not a "career", it is a lifestyle.
TheMercenaryKing
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#10 - 2014-01-24 14:31:23 UTC
I am an ISBoxer and your just mad. Give me your tears!

Oh, and I probably lose way more ships than you, but i manually type in my keys and then those get replicated to the other screens, there is 0 automation as i am manually making the commands, no a macro.
Notorious Fellon
#11 - 2014-01-24 15:14:07 UTC
TheMercenaryKing wrote:
I am an ISBoxer and your just mad. Give me your tears!

Oh, and I probably lose way more ships than you, but i manually type in my keys and then those get replicated to the other screens, there is 0 automation as i am manually making the commands, no a macro.


Forking a command is parallel automation. It reduces the need for input.

You can try to change the definition of words and split hairs all damn day for all I care. It changes nothing.

EVE should not be a solo-fleet game. If you can actually keep up with 6 ships inputting commands and activating modules via individual keyboard commands and mouse clicks, then by all means bring it.

But if you have to rely on a software crutch, then it is bullshit.

I look forward to the day that one person with a rack of hypervisors can roll out a fleet of 2,000 Sentry domis and one shot a capital every time he clicks F1. Sounds real fun.

Crime, it is not a "career", it is a lifestyle.
TheMercenaryKing
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#12 - 2014-01-24 15:29:15 UTC
Notorious Fellon wrote:
TheMercenaryKing wrote:
I am an ISBoxer and your just mad. Give me your tears!

Oh, and I probably lose way more ships than you, but i manually type in my keys and then those get replicated to the other screens, there is 0 automation as i am manually making the commands, no a macro.


Forking a command is parallel automation. It reduces the need for input.

You can try to change the definition of words and split hairs all damn day for all I care. It changes nothing.

EVE should not be a solo-fleet game. If you can actually keep up with 6 ships inputting commands and activating modules via individual keyboard commands and mouse clicks, then by all means bring it.

But if you have to rely on a software crutch, then it is bullshit.

I look forward to the day that one person with a rack of hypervisors can roll out a fleet of 2,000 Sentry domis and one shot a capital every time he clicks F1. Sounds real fun.



So i know it was not me, but who was the multiboxer who killed you?
Iminent- Doom
Tax What Tax Industries
#13 - 2014-01-24 16:48:38 UTC
i personally dont see a problem with muliboxing however i do believe isoboxing gives a unfair advantage especially when it comes to bombers

getting 7 people to warp to a perch/ping cloaked alineing to there target decloaking and launching there bomb then warping off and cloaking up with perfect timing is quite difficult some 1 always seams to mishear a command and launch there bomb in the wrong direction. not to mention the time lag on coms from people from different parts of the globe it may only be a 100ms difference but in eve that can make the difference between the target getting into warp and off field or not

where as isoboxing is still 7 ships all reacting to a single set of commands all ships with be in perfect sink it removes the human element of making the odd mistake from 6 of the 7 ships
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2014-01-24 17:12:35 UTC
Aneeda wrote:
They are essentially the Borgs of New Eden.


Well the Borg were pretty cool in Star Trek, the coolest to a large amount of fans. When you calm down, come up with an example that won't undermine your point, whatever it was. Blink

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
TheMercenaryKing
Collapsed Out
Pandemic Legion
#15 - 2014-01-24 17:12:57 UTC
Iminent- Doom wrote:
i personally dont see a problem with muliboxing however i do believe isoboxing gives a unfair advantage especially when it comes to bombers

getting 7 people to warp to a perch/ping cloaked alineing to there target decloaking and launching there bomb then warping off and cloaking up with perfect timing is quite difficult some 1 always seams to mishear a command and launch there bomb in the wrong direction. not to mention the time lag on coms from people from different parts of the globe it may only be a 100ms difference but in eve that can make the difference between the target getting into warp and off field or not

where as isoboxing is still 7 ships all reacting to a single set of commands all ships with be in perfect sink it removes the human element of making the odd mistake from 6 of the 7 ships


no, the overview gets ****** up easy, sometimes i get bombers in the wrong place, plus i am risking (isk of a ship)*(number of toons flying). So me risking 8 times more than other people is not balanced for 8 times the effect?
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2014-01-24 17:16:10 UTC
Iminent- Doom wrote:
i personally dont see a problem with muliboxing however i do believe isoboxing gives a unfair advantage especially when it comes to bombers

getting 7 people to warp to a perch/ping cloaked alineing to there target decloaking and launching there bomb then warping off and cloaking up with perfect timing is quite difficult some 1 always seams to mishear a command and launch there bomb in the wrong direction. not to mention the time lag on coms from people from different parts of the globe it may only be a 100ms difference but in eve that can make the difference between the target getting into warp and off field or not

where as isoboxing is still 7 ships all reacting to a single set of commands all ships with be in perfect sink it removes the human element of making the odd mistake from 6 of the 7 ships


Someone has never tried to manage 7 bombers with IsBoxer apparently. Especially when there's a need to keep them cloaked.

Unfair advantage? Hardly.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
#17 - 2014-01-24 17:28:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Lephia DeGrande
Ok just everyone come down.

Boxing and Fleet Ops are a pain in the arse, can we agree? Ok? Thanks.

Meet the Mario Kart 8 - Capsuleer Club Cup
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#18 - 2014-01-24 17:45:05 UTC
so, if i can multibox 8 domis now using totally separate clients, then why would I ever use the in-game system and accept unnecessary penalties?

I don't think you understand why CCP allows multiboxers.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Aneeda
Cosmic Chemicals
#19 - 2014-01-24 18:28:55 UTC
NearNihil wrote:
Aneeda wrote:
Just through experience and observation. Drones usually don't all deploy at once if you are clicking each client
True, I guess.
Aneeda wrote:
and ships don't warp all on top of each other.
This is what we have Squad Warp for.
Aneeda wrote:
But, thats besides my point. There are lots of multiboxers in Eve... from miners to mission runners. I see them every day. Even though I personally don't like it, I realize that it is condoned by CCP. I'm just looking for a way to balance the mechanic.
It's not really a game mechanic. At least, I don't call a thing that requires two separate game clients to be open a game mechanic. Besides, what are you going to do anyway? The most I've ever done is handle 4 clients at once and I felt like a confused octopus trying to solve 4 rubik's cubes while simultaneously reading Shakespeare's works. I may be slightly exaggerating, but it is confusing if you don't simplify things to have identical ships as opposed to all different ones.

And then there's ISBoxer, which I haven't used, but apparently makes multiboxing really easy. A third-party program that allows you to handle all clients as if they were one, more or less. I think your biggest beef is with this thing and not as much multiboxing as a concept.


Correct, I'm not at all at odds with multiple accounts. Its the automation aspect that is unbalancing.
Aneeda
Cosmic Chemicals
#20 - 2014-01-24 18:31:53 UTC
TheMercenaryKing wrote:
Iminent- Doom wrote:
i personally dont see a problem with muliboxing however i do believe isoboxing gives a unfair advantage especially when it comes to bombers

getting 7 people to warp to a perch/ping cloaked alineing to there target decloaking and launching there bomb then warping off and cloaking up with perfect timing is quite difficult some 1 always seams to mishear a command and launch there bomb in the wrong direction. not to mention the time lag on coms from people from different parts of the globe it may only be a 100ms difference but in eve that can make the difference between the target getting into warp and off field or not

where as isoboxing is still 7 ships all reacting to a single set of commands all ships with be in perfect sink it removes the human element of making the odd mistake from 6 of the 7 ships


no, the overview gets ****** up easy, sometimes i get bombers in the wrong place, plus i am risking (isk of a ship)*(number of toons flying). So me risking 8 times more than other people is not balanced for 8 times the effect?


So, if you are losing/risking more ships and spending more ISK, than what is your reason for using ISBoxer? You must feel you gain some advantage from it.
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