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What would happen if CCP finally nerfed hisec?

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Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#1361 - 2014-01-23 22:31:58 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Kimmi Chan wrote:


Why deal with bullshit in Null sec when you can play in high sec without that bullshit regardless of how much ISK you make?


Null sec life might bother you but it doesn't bother us. So again, why should null sov have worse income for a pilot than high sec?


Because in Null sec people engage in bullshit. Your personal income is subject to interruption from other players and it always will be.

Again, unless you force people in high sec to dock up when a cloaky neutral ****** comes into system null sec can never be as profitable as high sec.


This is in no way true. it wasn't true before wormholes and incursions (and systems upgrades in null). When i started playing there was NO steady 100+ mil an hour combat PVE content period. Sure, SOE missions were available but before wormholes the isk/lp ratio wasmerely good, not "omgwtf good" like it is now (and going to get even better with the Nestor.

That's what i've been talking about. CCP adds things to the game without much understanding of the consequences. When i started playing, the only high sec alts people in the allainces I was in had were for hauling and industry (and ganking I guess). no one talked. Then CCP introduced incursions which are an annoyince outside of high sec and a farmable gold mine inside it. And wormholes made the SOE LP store pure gold. other changes made the trust partners LP store gold. Yet other changes and additions (like marauders) lowered mission running times that even without blitzing you could make good isk from normal missions, and here lately CCP have further buffed high sec lp stores with faction versions of older implants.

The thing that always pops out at me in these discussions is that the people in denial of climate change the high sec imbalance tend to be the ones who don't pay attention to the details of why things changed.
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#1362 - 2014-01-23 22:34:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Kimmi Chan
Jenn aSide wrote:
...In a game like EVE, the choice should be "stay in safety and maybe make some money if I'm good and lucky" or "Go into danger and have a much much better chance of getting space rich (or dying, or both)...


You can't have a much much better chance of getting space rich because of the nature of null sec. The minute a neutral enters local - you are immediately making 0 ISK. You continue to make 0 ISK until the neutral buggers off elsewhere. This has nothing to do with ISK that is available. It is about the interruption caused by other players.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#1363 - 2014-01-23 22:39:13 UTC
I never understood blitzing. You're just missing out on bounties, loot to reprocess, and salvage. I rather kill every single one of those red crosses.

Except Recon I-III and Cargo Delivery. Hell I do Cargo Delivery in a shuttle.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
Dace Onio
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1364 - 2014-01-23 22:39:42 UTC
where is this illusion that "Hi-Sec" = safety come from? if anything nowadays hisec is probably more dangerous to live in than null, in null everything that aint blue is basically dead, in hisec even if its blue nowadays they prob still blow you up since most ppl are damn bored vets, big deal concord is there, whoopie bloody doo for that eh, noone knows about wardecs uhu no maam

you picked your life, now go live it, as i said before every option in this game is open to everyone, there aint nothing stopping anyone from doing it apart from themselfs
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1365 - 2014-01-23 22:47:20 UTC
Dace Onio wrote:
where is this illusion that "Hi-Sec" = safety come from? if anything nowadays hisec is probably more dangerous to live in than null, in null everything that aint blue is basically dead, in hisec even if its blue nowadays they prob still blow you up since most ppl are damn bored vets

Man, what a solid argument. I'm sold.

Dace Onio wrote:
big deal concord is there, whoopie bloody doo for that eh, noone knows about wardecs uhu no maam

Says the guy in an NPC corp...

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Josef Djugashvilis
#1366 - 2014-01-23 22:49:24 UTC
That horrible whining noise you can hear from null-sec?

Jenn aWhine and Baltec 1, Whining in Harmony.

Whining, from the Collins English Dictionary:

- making repeated complaints, esp in an annoying way.

This is not a signature.
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#1367 - 2014-01-23 22:50:00 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Dace Onio wrote:
big deal concord is there, whoopie bloody doo for that eh, noone knows about wardecs uhu no maam

Says the guy in an NPC corp...


I don't even hate to say it James. You're not wrong. Honestly man, stop making sense to me!


"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#1368 - 2014-01-23 22:50:56 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
...In a game like EVE, the choice should be "stay in safety and maybe make some money if I'm good and lucky" or "Go into danger and have a much much better chance of getting space rich (or dying, or both)...


You can't have a much much better chance of getting space rich because of the nature of null sec. The minute a neutral enters local - you are immediately making 0 ISK. You continue to make 0 ISK until the neutral buggers off elsewhere. This has nothing to do with ISK that is available. It is about the interruption caused by other players.


This "docking up when a neutral enters" is a side effect of CCP using anomalies (which spew liquid isk) as the cornerstone of null sec income. That was a mistake, anoms before dominion were just "quick little mini plexes", content for new explorers. What CCP should have done is made some new kind of content as the base for null sec isk making, Anoms should have NEVER been modified like this. CCP's mistake in this regard along with it's unthinking additions to high sec are at the heart of the imbalance.

The problem is that you don't seem to understand enough about the issue to form an opinon, yet opine you do.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#1369 - 2014-01-23 22:51:49 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
That horrible whining noise you can hear from null-sec?

Jenn aWhine and Baltec 1, Whining in Harmony.

Whining, from the Collins English Dictionary:

- making repeated complaints, esp in an annoying way.


This is what happens when a person cloaks themselves in lies after getting decloaked by the truth.
Dace Onio
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#1370 - 2014-01-23 22:54:21 UTC
yeah james sure as hell you aint got no neutral alts in npc corps, no sir

sorry forgot, mighty goon can post on main on forums an not have the tedium that comes with it
Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#1371 - 2014-01-23 22:56:04 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:
I never understood blitzing. You're just missing out on bounties, loot to reprocess, and salvage. I rather kill every single one of those red crosses.


Salvage used to be worth a lot more than it is now. Bounties on sub-battleship and non-elite ships are meh, and now that there are no meta 0 drops, refining yields less than it used to.

The big win from blitzing is LP. If you're running for a corp with a good LP:ISK ratio (SoE, Thukker, Trust Partners, etc.) you'll make far more money raking in the LP, cashing it out (with the ISK from your bounties) for profitable, high-demand items from the LP store, and then selling those in a hub. SoE are doubly nice in that their agent systems are not at all far from the biggest hub in the game.

Quote:
Except Recon I-III and Cargo Delivery. Hell I do Cargo Delivery in a shuttle.


You can do Recon I in a shuttle, too.

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1372 - 2014-01-23 22:56:36 UTC
Posting on your main is tedious?

I was not aware that using an NPC alt was so exciting!
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1373 - 2014-01-23 22:59:43 UTC
Dace Onio wrote:
yeah james sure as hell you aint got no neutral alts in npc corps, no sir

sorry forgot, mighty goon can post on main on forums an not have the tedium that comes with it

Of course we do, for the same reason you do. That was my entire point. You can easily avoid wardecs by staying in an NPC corp.

Highsec is not more dangerous than nullsec. In highsec PVE you avoid getting ganked by fitting your ship intelligently (read: not putting loads of stupid faction/deadspace/officer crap on it). In nullsec you avoid getting ganked by watching local and intel channels like a hawk and getting safe whenever someone enters your system.

In other words, staying safe in nullsec requires constant vigilance. You can AFK for days in highsec without being ganked.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#1374 - 2014-01-23 23:10:53 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
[The problem is that you don't seem to understand enough about the issue to form an opinon, yet opine you do.


The reason, just maybe that I opine as I do, is related to the title of this thread Jenn. Nerf Highsec - do you really, honestly, seriously expect everyone in Highsec to just say, "Oh sure - go ahead. Seriously guys why not?"

It seems to me that a lot of people on this thread have done nothing but criticize CCP for short-sighted choices, ill conceived nerfs, poorly attuned buffs, etc. That all of these things have created an imbalance and it never occurs to any of them that CCP, in their infinite wisdom, has struck the exact balance that they want.

In the time that I've been playing this game, I've seen every claim and rallying cry from people outside of High Sec claiming that "people aren't supposed to stay in highsec!" "people aren't supposed to stay in NPC corps!" "people aren't supposed to play this game solo!"

I don't want to have to put up with any bullshit when I am playing something I pay for - I deal with enough bullshit at work. Highsec provides me just the right amount of not having to deal with bullshit for my taste. Yours might differ in which case, enjoy your bullshit.

I'm not in an NPC corp but I can understand those that are. There are people in this thread and others who want to be able to wardec these people - so they can be more risk-averse in not having to deal with CONCORD retribution.

My Eve Personality profile - There are some professions that ARE in fact meant to be solo.

Furthermore, is it possible that people in High Sec aren't aware (or more likely don't give a ****) about nerfs and other goings on in Null Sec because they feel it in no way affects their play? Yet the warlord comes here to ask. "What if CCP finally nerfed High Sec" and you expect people in High Sec not to have an opinion about that? C'mon you're smarter than that.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#1375 - 2014-01-23 23:14:30 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Dace Onio wrote:
yeah james sure as hell you aint got no neutral alts in npc corps, no sir

sorry forgot, mighty goon can post on main on forums an not have the tedium that comes with it

Of course we do, for the same reason you do. That was my entire point. You can easily avoid wardecs by staying in an NPC corp.

Highsec is not more dangerous than nullsec. In highsec PVE you avoid getting ganked by fitting your ship intelligently (read: not putting loads of stupid faction/deadspace/officer crap on it). In nullsec you avoid getting ganked by watching local and intel channels like a hawk and getting safe whenever someone enters your system.

In other words, staying safe in nullsec requires constant vigilance. You can AFK for days in highsec without being ganked.



So watching local in nullsec..... but nullsec is supposed to be this huge "taking risks makes you Uber God of space MMO" zone, why can't we swap out the vigilance of "watching local" to "watching D-scan" and get rid of local?


It's rather lopsided that the huge rewards of nullsec has something as simple as "watching local" as a means of being vigilant.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1376 - 2014-01-23 23:19:32 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
So watching local in nullsec..... but nullsec is supposed to be this huge "taking risks makes you Uber God of space MMO" zone, why can't we swap out the vigilance of "watching local" to "watching D-scan" and get rid of local?


It's rather lopsided that the huge rewards of nullsec has something as simple as "watching local" as a means of being vigilant.

Because d-scan isn't going to help you against the blackops gang that'll get dropped on your ass just for daring to run an anom at all. But you knew this, so why did you ask the question in the first place?

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#1377 - 2014-01-23 23:22:31 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Highsec is not more dangerous than nullsec. In highsec PVE you avoid getting ganked by fitting your ship intelligently (read: not putting loads of stupid faction/deadspace/officer crap on it)...


I still don't understand why people in Highsec don't get this simple fact.

James Amril-Kesh wrote:
In other words, staying safe in nullsec requires constant vigilance. You can AFK for days in highsec without being ganked.


I don't get this either. Why would you pay to AFK? Seems a little counter intuitive to me.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#1378 - 2014-01-23 23:23:36 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
So watching local in nullsec..... but nullsec is supposed to be this huge "taking risks makes you Uber God of space MMO" zone, why can't we swap out the vigilance of "watching local" to "watching D-scan" and get rid of local?


It's rather lopsided that the huge rewards of nullsec has something as simple as "watching local" as a means of being vigilant.

Because d-scan isn't going to help you against the blackops gang that'll get dropped on your ass just for daring to run an anom at all. But you knew this, so why did you ask the question in the first place?



Maybe you should stop treating the game like it was single player and, you know, get into a fleet or join a large corp/alliance.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#1379 - 2014-01-23 23:25:29 UTC
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Herzog Wolfhammer wrote:
So watching local in nullsec..... but nullsec is supposed to be this huge "taking risks makes you Uber God of space MMO" zone, why can't we swap out the vigilance of "watching local" to "watching D-scan" and get rid of local?


It's rather lopsided that the huge rewards of nullsec has something as simple as "watching local" as a means of being vigilant.

Because d-scan isn't going to help you against the blackops gang that'll get dropped on your ass just for daring to run an anom at all. But you knew this, so why did you ask the question in the first place?



Maybe you should stop treating the game like it was single player and, you know, get into a fleet or join a large corp/alliance.



Wait... what?

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1380 - 2014-01-23 23:25:34 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:
do you really, honestly, seriously expect everyone in Highsec to just say, "Oh sure - go ahead. Seriously guys why not?"
their permission is not required

Kimmi Chan wrote:
That all of these things have created an imbalance and it never occurs to any of them that CCP, in their infinite wisdom, has struck the exact balance that they want.
if this was the balance ccp wanted, then ccp was wrong

Kimmi Chan wrote:
In the time that I've been playing this game, I've seen every claim and rallying cry from people outside of High Sec claiming that "people aren't supposed to stay in highsec!" "people aren't supposed to stay in NPC corps!" "people aren't supposed to play this game solo!"
no, you haven't