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0.01 ISK market bot fury

Author
Xixa Nova
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#1 - 2014-01-20 15:35:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Xixa Nova
So, I recently started selling and trading on the market and every time I make an order, within minutes (sometimes seconds), the order is beat by someone else for a difference of only 0.01 ISK.

It seems too fast and consistent for an actual person just sitting there constantly refreshing and modifying their orders, so I can only conclude that just about everyone is using a bot to handle their orders.

Is this true or am I just paranoid and underestimating other players' obsessive compulsive disorder and/or sheer tenacity?

Thanks!
Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
Nornir Empire
#2 - 2014-01-20 15:58:07 UTC
Xixa Nova wrote:
So, I recently started selling and trading on the market and every time I make an order, within minutes (sometimes seconds), the order is beat by someone else for a difference of only 0.01 ISK.

It seems too fast and consistent for an actual person just sitting there constantly refreshing and modifying their orders, so I can only conclude that just about everyone is using a bot to handle their orders.

Is this true or am I just paranoid and underestimating other players' obsessive compulsive disorder and/or sheer tenacity?

Thanks!


You are just paranoid and underestimating the frequency of order updating by other players. Not to say there aren't bots, but most you're seeing probably aren't using automated software to update their orders.
Kyori Ephrael
You'll Thank Me Later
#3 - 2014-01-20 16:09:40 UTC
It doesn't take that long for a practiced marketeer to undercut.

When I do it, I am constantly double-clicking my market orders in the wallet orders page to cycle through the orders [with the 'highlight my orders' setting turned on] so that it takes very little time to see if I am undercut.
Then it is a simple matter to right click the order, backspace once or twice and type one or two digits to undercut.
Several seconds is more than enough time.


If you're having trouble being undercut and keeping up - I suggest splitting your orders into several smaller orders so you can modify the prices more frequently, or move to a quieter hub.


Kyori,
Kendra Coldera
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#4 - 2014-01-20 16:13:39 UTC
Be glad that you get 0.01 isked!

Nothing is worse then actually getting 1.00 isked or similar! Because then I cannot use the mousewheel to adjust my price Ugh
Xixa Nova
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2014-01-20 16:15:05 UTC
Ok, so maybe not bots then, at least not always.

It's not that I'm having trouble - I sell my stuff and make a profit so I don't mind. I just have a terrible hatred for bots of all sorts. If people are doing it themselves then I am a happy trading alt!
Silvetica Dian
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2014-01-20 16:31:50 UTC
When i am actively trading for my manufacturing alt it is often the 5 min update rule that limits my trading.
i generally actively trade while waiting for a fleet to form up or when i have a ton of stuff i need processed.

Money at its root is a form of rationing. When the richest 85 people have as much wealth as the poorest 3.5 billion (50% of humanity) it is clear where the source of poverty is. http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jan/20/trickle-down-economics-broken-promise-richest-85

Signal11th
#7 - 2014-01-20 16:45:11 UTC
tbh when I did it I used to spend all day checking my orders constantly, so tbh you could have just come across another player like me.
I even used to spread my orders into groups for the same item so I could just at anytime be the top order on the market. Don't need to be a bot just someone very sad like I was back then.

God Said "Come Forth and receive eternal life!" I came fifth and won a toaster!

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#8 - 2014-01-20 17:16:31 UTC
Xixa Nova wrote:
So, I recently started selling and trading on the market and every time I make an order, within minutes (sometimes seconds), the order is beat by someone else for a difference of only 0.01 ISK.

It seems too fast and consistent for an actual person just sitting there constantly refreshing and modifying their orders, so I can only conclude that just about everyone is using a bot to handle their orders.

Is this true or am I just paranoid and underestimating other players' obsessive compulsive disorder and/or sheer tenacity?

Thanks!
I undercut people within minutes quite a lot of the time if I'm actively marketing. It's because I just cycle through, pretty much on autopilot with my limits and margins in my head, adjusting orders. If I'm not adding anything new, I often sit one jump out too, so I can mark my orders and set destination on the trading station so They both highlight for even more ease.

If I do see someone undercutting me a lot, I'll usually put a second batch of the item up, then alternate them so I can halve the time between updates, and I'll time one to be able to update within seconds of the person undercutting me. The plan is to make them ragequit their attempts to undercut, and it's surprisingly effective. I'd like to say that it's just patience, but it's not really it's impatience. I want to sell my stuff as soon as is possible for the best margin possible, and updating fast and often is the best way to do that.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Oska Rus
Free Ice Cream People
#9 - 2014-01-20 20:15:17 UTC
You would be surprised how many flesh morons 0.01 undercut. You actually dont have to be always top order. If you push price enough all 0.01 in front of you punks get sold out and you too. All for your price. Some of them leave trading your product in process.
joyous the
Slippery Penguin
#10 - 2014-01-21 00:42:17 UTC
You are all bots and should be banned
Vamprina Maximus
Equity Nuclear
#11 - 2014-01-22 01:32:24 UTC
Bots are a problem, but the instant .01 isking is usually another player with multiple buy and sell orders. You know its a robot when 4 orders are getting refreshed at once every 5 minute cooldown.. because a real player would only update 2, and wait to be undercut before updating the others.

Vamprina Maximus
Equity Nuclear
#12 - 2014-01-22 01:38:27 UTC
Oska Rus wrote:
You would be surprised how many flesh morons 0.01 undercut. You actually dont have to be always top order. If you push price enough all 0.01 in front of you punks get sold out and you too. All for your price. Some of them leave trading your product in process.


Unless there is significant margin, there is no reason to do anything other than .01 isk. Unless you sell for less than what others would lose money at, you will not stop the competition.

If anything, severely undercutting sell orders makes competition stiffer because margin traders will not want to dump their buy orders at a loss.
Ave Kathrina
My Ass Is On Fire
#13 - 2014-01-22 11:59:21 UTC
Kyori Ephrael wrote:
It doesn't take that long for a practiced marketeer to undercut.

When I do it, I am constantly double-clicking my market orders in the wallet orders page to cycle through the orders [with the 'highlight my orders' setting turned on] so that it takes very little time to see if I am undercut.
Then it is a simple matter to right click the order, backspace once or twice and type one or two digits to undercut.
Several seconds is more than enough time.


If you're having trouble being undercut and keeping up - I suggest splitting your orders into several smaller orders so you can modify the prices more frequently, or move to a quieter hub.


Kyori,


Y'all know you can use the mouse wheel to roll the price up/down in the modify order window? Potentially much faster.
I've done some really stupid shit in this game.
Nate Guralman
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2014-01-22 22:10:02 UTC
Silvetica Dian wrote:
When i am actively trading for my manufacturing alt it is often the 5 min update rule that limits my trading.
i generally actively trade while waiting for a fleet to form up or when i have a ton of stuff i need processed.


This. I work from a home a few days a week. My gaming machine is running EVE the whole day, and I'll check market orders
fairly often (a few times an hour).
Lady Katherine Devonshire
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#15 - 2014-01-23 07:44:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Lady Katherine Devonshire
I am going to make an assumption here: You are attempting to trade in Jita, yes?

I would suggest trying some of the other trade hubs instead, if you have not already.

There are also some lesser known, tertiary trade hubs as well. Those are almost entirely bot-free.
Gypsio III
State War Academy
Caldari State
#16 - 2014-01-23 12:27:15 UTC
Vamprina Maximus wrote:
Oska Rus wrote:
You would be surprised how many flesh morons 0.01 undercut. You actually dont have to be always top order. If you push price enough all 0.01 in front of you punks get sold out and you too. All for your price. Some of them leave trading your product in process.


Unless there is significant margin, there is no reason to do anything other than .01 isk. Unless you sell for less than what others would lose money at, you will not stop the competition.


Apart from the sheer entertainment of griefing them by cutting their profits at virtually no cost to yourself.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#17 - 2014-01-23 18:00:38 UTC
Kendra Coldera wrote:
Be glad that you get 0.01 isked!

Nothing is worse then actually getting 1.00 isked or similar! Because then I cannot use the mousewheel to adjust my price Ugh



Heheh, I always undercut by greater than 1.0 isk.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.

Ramone Ormand
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2014-01-24 08:18:33 UTC
When I station traded for a while I used a 3rd party application to tell me when i've been undercut and what the new price I should put in is if I want to 0.01 isk them. It was really good because it copied the price to your clipboard so instead of looking at the price, mousewheeling to 0.01 isk the other orders, double checking is you're the lowest price, then moving on to your next order, you would instead just copy - paste all the prices

It is something to consider I would think.

Or just try some of the other form of trading if you grow tired of 0.01'ing other people
sodney
Tactical Feed.
Pandemic Horde
#19 - 2014-01-26 18:00:06 UTC
Elizabeth Norn wrote:


You are just paranoid and underestimating the frequency of order updating by other players. Not to say there aren't bots, but most you're seeing probably aren't using automated software to update their orders.


not saying your wrong, but I'd like to know the source of that assertion. Besides CCP, I dont see how anyone can say anything about that topic but a pure guess.
Jace Sarice
#20 - 2014-01-26 18:20:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Jace Sarice
Generally speaking, I think you are underestimating the pennypunchers. I know many people who do absolutely nothing in-game besides .01 and chat with friends.

Time to head to Rens.
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