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A Market To Buy and Sell L.P

Author
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
#21 - 2014-01-21 15:09:32 UTC
Noxisia Arkana wrote:
Also, you can sell loyalty. You can buy your way into citizenship in a number of countries, if you pay me more at my job than my competitors you are 'buying' my loyalty. -1 for unsound logic.


Um... nothing here is you getting paid money to transfer a loyalty standing that you've generated with an entity (LPs), to another person. Which is the topic under discussion here.

Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.

Hesod Adee
Perkone
Caldari State
#22 - 2014-01-22 03:10:29 UTC
Jint Hikaru wrote:
Swiftstrike1 wrote:
-1

LP are awarded for loyalty. It doesn't make sense for the corporation in question to payout if some complete stranger walks into the LP store with your loyalty points.



Exactly this....

Its like Air Miles.

Loyalty Points are rewards to YOU for your loyalty to a corporation/entity. It makes no sense and to be honest there really isn't a good reason for this.

EDIT: Also what the guy says below my post.

Comparing to air-miles doesn't work at all. There are already too many differences

In RL the customer/client is the traveler. In Eve, the corporation is the customer/client. Which means that in Eve LP flows from the customer. In RL air-miles flow to the customer.

LP flowing in the opposite direction is a very big difference. So big that your comparison does not hold.


But my comparison with scrip, that does hold. Scrip was used to pay workers instead of cash. LP is used to pay capsuleers instead of cash. In both cases, it's flowing to the person that provides the service. The differences between scrip and Eve LP all come in what you can do with them after you have acquired them.


Besides, lore should never be an excuse for bad gameplay. Do you have any gameplay arguments for preventing LP trading ?
Loyalty Points
don't do that
#23 - 2014-01-22 19:16:47 UTC
As something of an authority on the subject, I don't think this is a good idea.
Hesod Adee
Perkone
Caldari State
#24 - 2014-01-22 22:34:45 UTC
Loyalty Points wrote:
As something of an authority on the subject, I don't think this is a good idea.

What makes you an authority on the subject ?
Tsobai Hashimoto
State War Academy
Caldari State
#25 - 2014-01-22 23:07:00 UTC
Swiftstrike1 wrote:
-1

LP are awarded for loyalty. It doesn't make sense for the corporation in question to payout if some complete stranger walks into the LP store with your loyalty points.



If it worked like that then

A) why can I swap back in forth between minnies and amarr or caldari FW all I want? or even gal if i join a corp....

B) why can i still dock in Hek TLF, and spend my minnie LP WHILE in Amarr FW, and currently killing Minnies, even wanted by the faction police, that cant seem to dock in Hek TLF where they are stationed from LOL

EVE has no LORE
Bald Beauty
Doomheim
#26 - 2014-01-24 21:12:55 UTC
Sounds like a good suggestion to me.
Hesod Adee
Perkone
Caldari State
#27 - 2014-01-24 21:13:53 UTC
With the Encounter Surveillance System providing LP to nullsec ratters, how will my complaints about cashing out LP apply to nullsec ratters ?
voetius
Grundrisse
#28 - 2014-01-24 22:15:44 UTC
Loyalty Points wrote:
As something of an authority on the subject, I don't think this is a good idea.


You created a character with a gimmick name, that's not the same as an argument.

+1 supported
Hesod Adee
Perkone
Caldari State
#29 - 2014-01-25 22:19:20 UTC
If adjusting the code to make LP tradeable is too difficult for CCP due to it being questionable legacy code, here is a possible workaround:
- Create a consumable item that costs LP, and when used provides the user with that much LP for the same corp.
- List all these LP tokens on the market.

While this is a physical item, this will not cause problems with my complaints about LP and new pilots because the LP tokens will not need to be moved if created at the right station. People will pay more ISK for the LP tokens at the station they plan to spend the LP at than they would at a trade hub, because any token purchases at a trade hub need to be hauled back to a station of that corp. (excluding corps which have a trade hub in one of their stations).
So any player who just spends their LP on tokens in the most popular of their corps stations should just sell them there.
Setantii
Conquistador.
#30 - 2014-03-05 20:50:36 UTC
Bump for my suggestion, anybody else in favour?
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#31 - 2014-03-05 21:08:18 UTC
I would be in favour of a 'Letter of Recommendation' mechanism that pushed LP up to the Faction level allowing players to aggregate into Navy faction stuff, implants etc if they so wish. Making it tradeable above and beyond the listed goods at the corp/faction they were earned from just turns them directly into yet another form of currency.
Hesod Adee
Perkone
Caldari State
#32 - 2014-03-05 21:26:06 UTC
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
I would be in favour of a 'Letter of Recommendation' mechanism that pushed LP up to the Faction level allowing players to aggregate into Navy faction stuff, implants etc if they so wish. Making it tradeable above and beyond the listed goods at the corp/faction they were earned from just turns them directly into yet another form of currency.

LP is already used as a currency by both capsuleers and NPCs. Starting from the moment the NPC corp pays the capsuleer in LP. When we cash out LP, we don't buy stuff to use directly, we buy stuff that we can see for ISK.

The only difference between LP and a currency is that we can't trade it between each other.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#33 - 2014-03-05 21:58:22 UTC
Really simple:

Make an LP store offer that sucks up a tiny bit of isk and returns you an LP token redeemable for 95% of the LP used to acquire it. Sell token. Would require adding a different token with each npc corp that has an LP store, which could suck a bit.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.

epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#34 - 2014-03-06 00:26:27 UTC  |  Edited by: epicurus ataraxia
Making loyalty points acceptable within each faction ie amarr constructions, tradeable with amarr navy. Would allow a lot of spread LP to be consolidated to purchase something useful, works for concord LP why not for others?
While i am not against having them tradeable, it could have economy balance implications and therefore could require more work than is justifiable for the gain.
There's a lot than can be addressed with improving LP that would have a greater benefit to all, for example addressing the tag requirements that haven't changed with the FW changes and change in availability.

Tl;dr
Allow use of faction LP in the same faction store.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

Hesod Adee
Perkone
Caldari State
#35 - 2014-03-06 01:08:27 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
While i am not against having them tradeable, it could have economy balance implications and therefore could require more work than is justifiable for the gain.

When it comes down to it, the main cause of any change will be the change in people who are cashing out LP. Currently everyone, no matter how little they know about the Eve economy, has to cash out their LP themselves. So they make mistakes. With LP trading, the people who earn the LP sell it to players who know what they are doing and those players cash it out.

So any effects will be very similar to if CCP manages to educate everyone regarding the best way to cash out LP. If the economy is so fragile that educating the population is a problem, then the economy has serious issues. So, unless the economy has problems, I don't see how LP trading could cause any problems either.

Maybe CCP will need to tweak LP store prices. But that's it.
Your Dad Naked
Doomheim
#36 - 2014-03-06 03:12:10 UTC
It could work, wouldn't make sense for the lore but who cares.

First thing they need to do is diversify the LP stores, though. Military divisions should not be offering the same wares as manufacturing conglomerates.
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings
#37 - 2014-03-06 04:03:55 UTC
LP is renamed scrip or corporate credit. Lore issue resolved.
Omnathious Deninard
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2014-03-06 04:10:23 UTC
Tsobai Hashimoto wrote:
Swiftstrike1 wrote:
-1

LP are awarded for loyalty. It doesn't make sense for the corporation in question to payout if some complete stranger walks into the LP store with your loyalty points.



If it worked like that then

A) why can I swap back in forth between minnies and amarr or caldari FW all I want? or even gal if i join a corp....

B) why can i still dock in Hek TLF, and spend my minnie LP WHILE in Amarr FW, and currently killing Minnies, even wanted by the faction police, that cant seem to dock in Hek TLF where they are stationed from LOL

EVE has no LORE

Because if the game worked the way lore would have it players would whine and ***** that the game has too many restrictionsand makes it hard for noobs.

If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.

Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2014-03-06 09:26:57 UTC
Maybe I'm just an old |RPG player at heart but I'd prefer the lore to be tied in more through changing Epic Arc mission cycles and such.

In terms of LP I thought they kept it distinct from ISK so that players *had* to gather them to gather some specific items as with the SoE ships when they were released. If LP were tradeable anyone with them would simply have sold to the highest bidder who would effective;ly have been buying the ship. As it was the whole LP mechanism provided CCP with a great means to introduce new faction items and drive players to specific locations, with then provided more conflict as the mission runners got jumped more often.

LP is a different mechanism to ISK for a reason I think and making it tradeable would simply negate that difference.
Major Trant
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#40 - 2014-03-06 10:33:38 UTC
I've got little bits of LP scattered around dozens of corp on various characters. However, while it would be nice for me to be able to convert and use them, this suggestion comes with the problem that everyone else will also be able to do this. It will result in more LP coming into use, prices of LP goods will generally go down and the distinction between working for different NPC corps will become blurred.

In short this suggestion amounts to a dumbing down of Eve. This game benefits the diligent and intellegent player. Those who do their research, plan their activities and put the work in where it is needed. But this suggestion caters to the:

"Wah Wah! I've screwed up and wasted my time on the wrong corp, make it easy CCP!"
"There, there little boy, here you go, just convert your bad LP to good LP, simple!"

-1


Hesod Adee wrote:
Two other beneficial side effects of an LP market:
- Increased ISK sink from the taxes of the LP market.
- High sec missioners now have more transparency about which corps are more profitable to run missions for, as the ISK:LP ratio is the main difference and it will now be visible. Which will lead to missioners spreading out a bit as where they clump up the oversupply will lead to lower ISK:LP ratios for that corp.

Please use valid arguments to support your view, this is complete rubbish.

1. Making LP that is currently unused suddenly easy to convert and use is an Isk generater, not a sink, whether you tax it or not.
2. It is already easy to work out who is the best corp to work for and you have even linked a tool in the same post to do that for you. If people are too lazy to do that or can't be bothered to grind up the standings with a new corp, giving them access to items from other LP stores without having to grind the standing isn't going to encourage them to grind those standings.

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