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Tournament ideas discussion

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CCP Bro
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1 - 2014-01-22 10:38:56 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Bro
Hey everyone,

I'm posting this thread here to start a discussion. So feel free to brainstorm and talk about:


  • Ways to reduce the player/money gap
  • Ways to increase interest in tournaments, both for participants and viewers
  • Ways to encourage new teams to participate in tournaments
  • Ways to tier tournaments so everyone can find a tournament to be competitive in
  • Ways to provide the community with the proper tools to host their own tournaments, be it on a separate server or on TQ


I'd also like to hear your ideas on new prizes aimed specifically at newer teams, for instance a good prize for "Best new team" for the New Eden Open. If we get good ideas I really want to add something like that to the NEOII


-CCP Bro

eSports Coordinator for the EVE Universe & Community Specialist
Anthar Thebess
#2 - 2014-01-22 11:29:10 UTC
Quote:

Ways to increase interest in tournaments, both for participants and viewers
Ways to encourage new teams to participate in tournaments
Ways to tier tournaments so everyone can find a tournament to be competitive in
Ways to provide the community with the proper tools to host their own tournaments, be it on a separate server or on TQ


During reinforce timers Ihub , station will be protected by damping field - that will prevent those structures from being attacked.

10 minutes before reinforce timer , attacker and defender can assemble up to 50? people subcapital fleet that must be taken into the subspace pocked where installation controlling this dampening field is located.
Depending on the system security status - allowed ships and number ships per group can varry.

Installation is only accessible when other group of players have been eliminated.
Winning side can decide if they want to put structure in the next timer or use SBU scrambler to cycle all SBU in the contested system.


- Most of lagfests are gone
- Bloob battles and bloob importance is gone
- mini tournaments on each timer
- Movies from those skirmishes grate for EVE adversing.
- Subspace pocket can be hosted on separate node.

During the TCU defense/attack normal lagfest.

Stop discrimination, help in a fight against terrorists

Show your support to The Cause!
Lyta Jhonson
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#3 - 2014-01-22 15:39:20 UTC
Tournaments in their current format are both exhausting to participate in and exhausting to watch. It would be much better if they were played in the manner of footbal leagues through entire year: like every saturday and sunday two or four matches are played. It's also better for people in other timezones as it's much easier to not spoil yourself the results and watch 1-2 hours of recorded stream instead of watching entire day.

Also disconnect = death is too harsh penalty. Ship should stay in place and allow player to reconnnect. Quite a few matches were stupidly lost because of that.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#4 - 2014-01-22 16:29:25 UTC
Consider tournaments where there is some goal other than exploding the other side. For example:

EW football. Was popular for a bit. The goal was to tractor a can to your goal. Any non-damaging mod could be used: webs, ECM, neuts, ect.

Races. These do get run. There can be all sorts of variations. Like just pure speed, allowing non-damaging weapons, or go back to allowing explosions.

Player tools: A way to have near perfect security. This is Eve and someone will try and spoil the party if it is in any way possible for them to do it. Guarding against such people is so difficult that most players just give up on the idea of running their own tournament. Right now "do it on Sisi" works almost perfectly as interfering is a bannable action.

A way to know distances. Ship distance from a beacon, or a race turn point, or the distance of a can from a goal.

A way to know times. Like the time a ship is within a set distance of a beacon.

A way to set beacons.

A way to disqualify participants who violate a rule. (Your ship is out of bounds.. BOOM!!!"

For cost control: A way to know the cost and meta of everything on someone's ship, quickly and easily.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
Destoya
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#5 - 2014-01-22 16:34:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Destoya
Lyta Jhonson wrote:


Also disconnect = death is too harsh penalty. Ship should stay in place and allow player to reconnnect. Quite a few matches were stupidly lost because of that.


I'll write up a longer response to the OP later, but this has existed since NEO 1 or ATX I believe. There's an invisible bubble so when you disconnect your ship just sits there. The only exception to this is in the first few seconds when everyone is warping in, since the bubble is not up at that point.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#6 - 2014-01-22 16:43:05 UTC

  • Ways to reduce the player/money gap

    • --- Bans generally force pilots to have multiple fleet concepts setup ahead of time, so they can reship appropriately. This is a source of moderate expense (although I prefer having bans, as it makes the tourney more interesting).

    --- Ships themselves can vary wildly in pricing. Faction & T2 Battleships go for 500-1b+ each, which becomes very expensive very fast.

    --- Skill gap: Some ships are really good, but extremely skill intensive to fly (Like Command Ships with Warfare Links).

    With all these in mind, you could run tournaments that remove the pricey elements. For example, a tournament consisting only of t2 cruisers and below. These are easier to afford, have a lower SP wall, and could still be very interesting & fun to watch as more & more explosions happen. Alternatively, you can artificially create this through a more steeply structured point system.

  • Ways to increase interest in tournaments, both for participants and viewers

    • Interact with the fans:
    Surveys for MVP and/or best matches.
    You could make bans come from the players rather than team captains (ok, this would be gamed).
    You could add in obstacles.

  • Ways to encourage new teams to participate in tournaments

    • Have more tourney slots and lower the barrier to be competitive. Lower the cost of entry, and lower the time window requirement of the tourney. A 10 vs 10 frigate match doesn't need 15 minutes a match, and can be very entertaining.

  • Ways to tier tournaments so everyone can find a tournament to be competitive in

    • T1 Frigate Tourney
    Dessie & T2/Pirate Frig Tourney
    Cruiser Tourney, etc...

  • Ways to provide the community with the proper tools to host their own tournaments, be it on a separate server or on TQ

    • Environmental Control: Password protected systems like last years duality was nice.
    Deployable Beacons, etc.

    Observation Ship: Create a ship with a 250km lock range, 12 max targets, passive targeting as a special ability, a unique ship class (so it can be easily filtered off the overview), but lacks the ability to fit any remote assistance and/or offensive modules (could simply be no mids, no highs).


I'd also like to hear your ideas on new prizes aimed specifically at newer teams, for instance a good prize for "Best new team" for the New Eden Open. If we get good ideas I really want to add something like that to the NEOII

-- EvE collectors edition.
-- Smaller Prizes: Pirate Frig / Cruiser / BS pack. Implant Set.
-- Gag gifts: If someone distinguishes themselves for flying a hero damp ship, give them 100 damps or damp ships.
Nicen Jehr
Subsidy H.R.S.
Xagenic Freymvork
#7 - 2014-01-22 17:22:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicen Jehr
> Ways to reduce the player/money gap
you mean how the richest alliances always get spots in tournaments? if so here are some possibilities:
-Little Guy Format: All players are NOT eligible for the tourney, who are a member of an alliance or corporation, which contains more than 1000 members as of the announce date of the tourney
-Have tournaments much more frequently, that do NOT have an option to buy-in for your team's slot. Instead randomly choose all teams. you could help deal with crappy teams by blacklisting, or at least give lower weighting chances, to players who repeatedly fail to show or are unsporting.
-If combined with a tier system this would have the best of both worlds - frequent battles between similarly classed teams without letting any team's money come into play.

If your concern is instead the richest alliances have enough money to buy Etanas and Bhaalgorns... i would do a flat rate tournament entry fee from TQ wallets. (i would try ~500M per team for a low-tier, just-for-fun tournament and scale up for higher tier events). Run it on sisi so players can use any gear they want. Put any restrictions you want for the format ('no special edition ships,' 'frigates only,' etc).


>Ways to increase interest in tournaments, both for participants and viewers
-Run more tournaments. Way more. One per week in each of several tiers.
-Find really entertaining announcers. I was quite happy with the ATXI announcers but you will need more to prevent burnout with frequent tournaments. Make sure the announcers are trying to engage non-EVE players who found the stream e.g. explaining the basics every now and then. You don't need the announcers physically present, give them access to a Mumble server whose audio is mixed into the stream audio.
-See if you can get Twitch to display ads to ppl watching other streams: "Team Deathmatch... IN SPACE! Now live: EVE Online Rookie Tournament - Week 13"


>Ways to encourage new teams to participate in tournaments
-Ingame decorations to 1st and 2nd place winners
-Play on SiSi with an entry fee that even a handful of Brave Newbies can afford
-Pickup matches that follow tournament rules, but are just for fun, so prospective teams can see what it's all about.


>Ways to tier tournaments so everyone can find a tournament to be competitive in
the first thing that comes to mind is to start off with a basic metric of pvp activity, kill count
-Announce open entry for all teams, no limit to how many.
-Get each team member's total kill count over the past year (not ISK destroyed)
-Calculate the sum to get the team's total kill count
-Sort the teams by kill count and bin them into however many tiers you want

So that's what I would use as a starting point to kinda bootstrap the tier system. You would of course want to explore more relevant ways for teams to affect their tier status e.g. tourney kills, tourney wins, no-shows etc.


>Ways to provide the community with the proper tools to host their own tournaments, be it on a separate server or on TQ
-make a bot that blows up ships crossing the edge of glory so you don't need a dev to do it
-make a bot similar to 'moveme' that is used to move team members who are staging, into a station in the tourney system. have it put Red Team in Red Station and Blue Team in Blue Station. Align the undocks of both stations towards the arena. Destroy any ships that warp anywhere from their station before the match begins.
-have a bot announce in local 'FIGHT!' and turn off the destroy-ships-that-warp mechanic
-have a 'rules' bot who I can link my fit to, and it tells me if it is a legal fit for this format
-One way to detect people using illegal fits would be to destroy all ships after a winner is found, then have a script look at all killmails generated to detect problems (not sure how you could control implant use unless you podded everyone too)
-You might also be able to parse killmails to automatically identify the winner of each match


>I'd also like to hear your ideas on new prizes aimed specifically at newer teams, for instance a good prize for "Best new team" for the New Eden Open. If we get good ideas I really want to add something like that to the NEOII
-again, ingame decorations would be nice
-flavor items are always nice
-maybe make a rendering of their characters standing in front of a big NEO II backdrop and put it on the launcher and community page
-maybe a devblog/community spotlight talking with the 'Best new team'
-remember that 'ten year veteran' station? how about a station for tournament winners and/or teams that didn't win but are granted honors like "Best new team"

Little Things to improve ≡⋁≡ | My Little Things posts
Nicen Jehr
Subsidy H.R.S.
Xagenic Freymvork
#8 - 2014-01-22 17:36:11 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
-- EvE collectors edition.
-- Smaller Prizes: Pirate Frig / Cruiser / BS pack. Implant Set.
-- Gag gifts: If someone distinguishes themselves for flying a hero damp ship, give them 100 damps or damp ships.
i like these too!

Little Things to improve ≡⋁≡ | My Little Things posts
CCP Bro
C C P
C C P Alliance
#9 - 2014-01-22 17:48:43 UTC
I really like what I am reading here so far. I'd also want to open the floor for some alternative competitive event ideas. Much like earlier in this thread. We worked on a "hunger games" concept a bit back but that got scrapped. So if you can think of something cool I'd definitely like to do something different.

eSports Coordinator for the EVE Universe & Community Specialist
Farrell Jay
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#10 - 2014-01-22 18:33:11 UTC
CCP Bro wrote:

  • Ways to increase interest in tournaments, both for participants and viewers

    • During breaks there could be in game events with prizes, similar to what somer blink has done or even more CCP roaming fleets. Also more promotional videos, there's a lot of really talented video editors that play eve, so perhaps even get the eve community involved with prizes for best Alliance tournament promo videos. Releasing compilations of the alliance tournaments best and most exciting contests in the lead up would also generate more hype.

    CCP Bro wrote:
  • Ways to encourage new teams to participate in tournaments
    • Perhaps tutorial videos would inspire new teams to participate, making sure everyone's aware of how to use sisi for practice and give examples of popular tournament fleet compositions. I think also getting some of the tournament veterans to talk about their preparation for past tournaments and their experiences in the later rounds (perhaps this could be done at fanfest?).

    CCP Bro wrote:
  • Ways to tier tournaments so everyone can find a tournament to be competitive in

    • I like the idea of a several smaller tournaments for those alliances that don't have the funds that certain alliances do. These tournaments wouldn't have a large buy in price and would be shown in the weeks running up to the alliance tournament/new eden open. Perhaps the victor gets a place in the new eden open/alliance tournament as it's reward.


    CCP Bro wrote:
    I'd also like to hear your ideas on new prizes aimed specifically at newer teams, for instance a good prize for "Best new team" for the New Eden Open. If we get good ideas I really want to add something like that to the NEOII


    Best newcomer
    Biggest overachievers
    Biggest upset
    Most creative fleet comp
    Fastest win
    Cheapest successful fleet comp

    Winners to be for voted by the broadcast team as to stay somewhat impartial.
    Lucine Delacourt
    The Covenant of Blood
    #11 - 2014-01-22 19:02:54 UTC
    CCP Bro wrote:
    I really like what I am reading here so far. I'd also want to open the floor for some alternative competitive event ideas. Much like earlier in this thread. We worked on a "hunger games" concept a bit back but that got scrapped. So if you can think of something cool I'd definitely like to do something different.




    If you wanted to do a hunger games thing you could just have like 12-24 teams of 5-10 all random in one system. have the gates turned off and have them hunt each other. GMs could spawn certain items for the teams based on crowd response and their specific needs(I.E. Probe Launcher and a depot if their scout dies). Last team standing wins.
    Nicen Jehr
    Subsidy H.R.S.
    Xagenic Freymvork
    #12 - 2014-01-22 20:21:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Nicen Jehr
    CCP Bro wrote:
    I really like what I am reading here so far. I'd also want to open the floor for some alternative competitive event ideas. Much like earlier in this thread. We worked on a "hunger games" concept a bit back but that got scrapped. So if you can think of something cool I'd definitely like to do something different.
    Oh wow lets see, others have had some good ideas already...
    • CTF with tractor beams, no damaging modules allowed
    • Obstacle course with beacon checkpoints - interceptor pilots for speed runs, or covert ops (maybe with >1x tidi) for precision flying (don't decloak!)
    • Dogpile - one team gets a single badass ship (anything subcap maybe?) and all other teammates fly noobships; the other team gets to fly a more normal comp, maybe T1 cruiser down or dessy down.
    • 1v1 ladders, if you develop all these automation tools for team fights they would probably work just as well for 1v1s
    • I do like the hunger games idea and suggest that you periodically activate different wormhole effects. Maybe everyone starts in frigates spawned randomly in the system and you put a 'Supplies' beacon where bigger ships are floating in space, pre-fit, plus some mobile jump units and mobile warp disruptors to take. I think Lucine's idea for many teams that are all locked in a system is great. You could hide further supply caches in cosmic signatures and spawn them as desired.
    • Minmatar Militia format: Give every pilot a random fitted ship (with some specifications of what skills will be required to fly everything)
    • Brutor Cheerleeding Squad: Upon starting the competition each team is given a particular formation to form - all in a line, smiley face, cube, sphere, 7o... Any team may claim 'Done' at which point 0.01x tidi is activated while the judges decide whether the team has successfully completed their formation. If the judges rule against the team, tidi goes back to normal 1x and that team must wait N seconds before another 'Done' claim.
    • Ender's Game format: Red Team's goal is to get from their start point to a beacon on the surface of a planet, light a cyno, and jump a capital ship to it. Blue Team's goal is to prevent the capital from jumping in. Warping in the arena is allowed, mobile cyno disruptors and mobile warp disruptors are allowed
    • Drebuchet bowling :)

    Little Things to improve ≡⋁≡ | My Little Things posts
    Gizznitt Malikite
    Agony Unleashed
    Agony Empire
    #13 - 2014-01-22 22:00:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Gizznitt Malikite
    CCP Bro wrote:
    I really like what I am reading here so far. I'd also want to open the floor for some alternative competitive event ideas. Much like earlier in this thread. We worked on a "hunger games" concept a bit back but that got scrapped. So if you can think of something cool I'd definitely like to do something different.


    Idea 1: Solo or Team Deathrace: After the countdown, everyone must fly 600 km's to an acceleration gate and activate it. Live weapons fire, score people based on finish time. Add in obstacles like mines, proximity activated stasis web towers, and the like for extra fun. Bonus prizes for ship kills. This is very scaleable... and could have a 1000 pilots participating at once (although I'd recommend RFing the node).

    Idea 2: Hunger Games: Everyone starts on the edge of a sphere 20 km's apart from one another... at countdown, may the odds be ever in your favor!

    Idea 3: Team Starship Troopers: Teams must defeat wave after wave after ever increasingly brutal wave of NPC's.... Whoever can survive the longest wins. (Sleeper AI, Jams, Neuts, and webs a must). Use sleeper rats so salvage and bounties aren't an issue.

    Idea 4: Team Capture the flag. To be done in highsec. Whoever picks up the flag goes suspect so everyone can shoot them. Flag must be moved to your base (a can you drop it in). Shooting someone not a suspect gets you concorded. Suspect can return fire if aggressed thanks to limited engagements. Coding should ensure the flag always drops as loot to be picked up by the next pilot.

    Idea 5: Bumper Cars: Put a large ship (titan) in the center of an arena... bump it around (this sounds kinda lame tbh).

    *edit* Make this Gladiator Challenge style, and combine these for a multi-obstacle tournament series.
    Sabriz Adoudel
    Move along there is nothing here
    #14 - 2014-01-22 22:45:48 UTC
    A few ideas:

    First on the ISK gap. This is only an issue in the ATs/NEO where there are massive prizes at stake. Have smaller prizes and noone will consider fielding Etanas or Chremorases or the like.
    Of course smaller prizes will only be worth running if CCP can make tournaments automated, so that no CCP intervention is required in running the tournament.

    Secondly on the SP gap. This can be addressed by disallowing Warfare Links. Command ships are the only subcapital ship class that requires more than three months or so of dedicated training to work.

    What I'd like to see: A system where you run 8 team low stakes tournaments on demand via an automated system.



    On other formats: I really think the Hunger Games approach has merit. Give every player a tech 1 fitted tech 1 frigate to start with, and litter the field with better ships you can eject from your frigate and jump into.

    I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
    Akrasjel Lanate
    Immemorial Coalescence Administration
    Immemorial Coalescence
    #15 - 2014-01-23 18:16:24 UTC
    Building a "system/mechanic" for players to do "tournaments" is to much work/effort for little gain(this is only my opinion).

    No sure if right, i would call this a "low effort tournaments" system:

    - first, we have a dueling system, you could extend this to teams/group level, off equal numbers be able to fight insted 1vs1 we have now only
    - second,a deployable structure like arena(combined with the AT and NEO UI that you use if possible, if not make them seperate)

    This could be used by players to make some basic tournaments private/alliance ones or public.
    You know less effort to develop it(i guess).

    CEO of Lanate Industries

    Citizen of Solitude
    Hesod Adee
    Perkone
    Caldari State
    #16 - 2014-01-24 05:34:11 UTC
    Vincent Athena wrote:
    Races. These do get run. There can be all sorts of variations. Like just pure speed, allowing non-damaging weapons, or go back to allowing explosions.



    The microjump deployable adds another option. Race around a track of these, either with racers being required to activate them each in order, or the course and ship restrictions set so that activating them is the fastest way to the end.

    Racers will then have to make a tradeoff between spending time before activating each one lining up a good activation, and time spent slowboating between where it send them and the next deployable because their activation angle wasn't perfect.
    Winthorp
    #17 - 2014-01-24 08:38:05 UTC
    Make it open to corporations, having to form a 1 corp Alliance just for this is a bit much.
    Akrasjel Lanate
    Immemorial Coalescence Administration
    Immemorial Coalescence
    #18 - 2014-01-24 09:52:49 UTC
    Winthorp wrote:
    Make it open to corporations, having to form a 1 corp Alliance just for this is a bit much.

    AT is what it is.

    You have NEO

    CEO of Lanate Industries

    Citizen of Solitude
    Winthorp
    #19 - 2014-01-24 10:08:50 UTC
    Akrasjel Lanate wrote:
    Winthorp wrote:
    Make it open to corporations, having to form a 1 corp Alliance just for this is a bit much.

    AT is what it is.

    You have NEO


    NEO is **** because it is clearly ****.
    EI Digin
    irc.zulusquad.org
    #20 - 2014-01-24 23:11:12 UTC
    I think that the problem that the tournaments have is that they are essentially playoffs without a season.

    There needs to be some sort of constant ladder or league system for people to make it easier and more fulfilling to practice or get involved in tournaments. However, it might be difficult to integrate this into the sandbox.
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