EVE Information Portal

I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay.
Please people, keep it on topic and above all civil!

The rules:
3. Ranting is prohibited.

A rant is a post that is often filled with angry and counterproductive comments. A free exchange of ideas is essential to building a strong sense of community and is helpful in development of the game and community. Rants are disruptive, and incite flaming and trolling. Please post your thoughts in a concise and clear manner while avoiding going off on rambling tangents.

4. Personal attacks are prohibited.

Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.

5. Trolling is prohibited.

Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote.

30. Abuse of CCP employees and ISD volunteers is prohibited.

CCP operate a zero tolerance policy on abuse of CCP employees and ISD volunteers. This includes but is not limited to personal attacks, trolling, “outing” of CCP employee or ISD volunteer player identities, and the use of any former player identities when referring to the aforementioned parties.
Our forums are designed to be a place where players and developers can exchange ideas in a polite and friendly manner for the betterment of EVE Online. Players who attack or abuse employees of CCP, or ISD volunteers, will be permanently banned from the EVE Online forums across all their accounts with no recourse, and may also be subject to action against their game accounts.

I have a related question. The ratting that it happening: Is this assumed to be a solo activity? I'm just curious if null ratting is done in cooperation with someone or if it's all solo?

If it's solo, maybe this is part of the intended effect? Maybe CCP wants to see more small groups working together? The other thing is the whole PvE vs PvP fitting on ships. Is this purely an 'efficiency' thing? As is, a PvE fit lets you kill the rat's faster, resulting in a more efficient income?

It would be nice if we could fit our ships for PvP and do PvE activity. Then again, if you are fighting in a group, a PvP ship shouldn't hinder you much against rats?

It does seem like the more they do to tweak the module the worse it gets. It's still a bad idea though and should be dropped. It still feels contrived.

Let me try to get the picture right:

- Nullsec... no police, no CONCORD... player ruled land/space (like the early Wild West)
- Interbus has left the scene, we build (well, until now still with f****** BPC from CONCORD LP-Store - where is the BPO?) and run our own POCOs
- we fight pirates of our own wallet/safety/prosperity, not for a goddamn CONCORD-proofed NPC agent
- we are loyal to our corp/ally/coalition at first, not to any Empire

So why should i give a **** to any highsec navy to gain their LPs? They are not present in Null.
-> Pirate Faction Points can be gain by killing local rats (another topic)
What rights does the Navy have to dictate and force me to launch that piece of crap (aka ESS - the mechanics are still ****)?
-> Should i shoot me in the left or right foot?
The market belongs to the players, particularly in nullsec... why then is this item build and seeded by NPC?

Nullsec has to be idependent from any CONCORD rules, it's player space.
Kick SOV bills and burn the asses of CONCORD. They can stay and rot in 0.1 and above.

AND HELL YES, F*** THIS ****** ESS (and most of the other new deployables)

---

Yes, i am pissed off about that and CCPs current work.

So..... Who pays the bounties to you?

Because wrecking the value of nullsec will just make nullsec worthless to line members and see them all go and do something else like FW (already more valuable) Incursions (already more valuable) or missions (would be more valuable if they nerfed the bounties any more).

Nullsec PvE is almost always solo. There are viable ways to dualbox or 2 together, but mostly solo.
The issue is that for most things, you don't have to be 2 characters and 2 characters won't do stuff twice as fast, so if you're dualboxing you can probably literally make twice as much by being in two sites, compared to maybe decreasing completion time with a fourth or a third by being two characters in one site. Multiboxing can add safety or ease, and sentry-droneboats with a specific trigger can sometimes become twice as efficient with twice the characters, but in general terms, nullsec PvE is solo.
The larger issue than the sites themselves would be the systems, though.

Since most systems have a few of the better sites spawning at the same time, a good truesec system can be full at 2 ratters (Or two groups of ratters). There won't be efficient sites to do, so moving over to the next site will be better than staying and competing for the sites as they respawn. Same goes for belts, as it were. With 10 belts you can't warp in, shoot rats, warp to next, warp to next, shoot rats, etc., and expect the rats to really respawn. If you are two people doing the same belts, chances are you could be legitimately isk-doubling in Jita and earn the same hourly wage.
So the issue is essentially that the system pop cap is between 0 and 5.

That's for any reasonable living in a nullsec system. When nullsec players moan about the isk/hour of highsec lvl4 missions, it's not necessarily because the isk/hour itself is out of balance, but because the scalability of lvl4 missions is a practical infinite (Okay, 100-200 people doing it out of the same system means lag and attracts gankers - still!) while the nullsec systems scale in a way so finite you never really need a whole hand for counting on your fingers.
There are other things with highsec missions 'n stuff, but scalability isn't in nullsec.
We can have a battle of four thousand players in a system where, if it was for ratting-sustained living under ideal circumstances, less than a thousandth of the battle-participants would be able to live.

Okay, PI, mining, moonmining, escalation, ice ... it's not all equally bad, but for the line nullsec member, for the 99% of those four thousand, the combination of effort, security, accessability, income per time interval and scalability puts actually living in the areas of nullsec for which they fought and won at a disadvantage to high sec missions.
There are good and bad reasons to ignore that disadvantage, make no mistake.
But mostly, such reasons are either sentimental or "I don't want a new account for HS missions". The reasons most likely won't be "with time devoted to war, defense and offense, logistics, planning and moving around according to population and gangs/campers, this new system will make me obscenely rich through ratting" - but it is very likely to be "damn, I can't be arsed to JC to HS in a wardec to get ISK for a new boat, so I'm gonna rat a little."
With all the sticks in nullsec, to make it generally appealing, it should also have some carrots. Those carrots should be beyond comparison to the places where you get none of the sticks, and different to the places you get other kinds of sticks.
There should be clear consequences to live in nullsec, both SOV. and NPC, in lowsec, in wormholes.
And there should be clear perspectives to make the transition for both gameplay and social play, not just the social aspects.

The ESS, even if the new version is less horrible, is not such a carrot. It's a stick that hurts just as much as the promised carrot soothes. It's a problem and at the same time its own solution.

If we lived in fantasy-land, the easiest way to show CCP that Null isn't really working is for everyone to abandon it. Move to a .5 system as close to Null as you can and simply head out there to get the moongoo or whatever you need as a corp every day. Or don't even do that.

Heck, since it's fantasy-land, what if CFC and Goon were to declare Null off-limits for all economic activity and finance 23/7 powerful roaming gangs that punish anyone using Null for anything. They don't make any T2 stuff (prolly have lots of stockpiles they can use exclusively for their Alliance members), don't mine any of the ore out there (and hunt down and destroy any groups who do try to mine), no more PI, etc...

It would kill the market, and CCP would have no choice but to pay attention. A boycott of Null. If it's so irritating, then vote with your afterburner and leave it. It's fantasy because we all know the Alliance leaders are quite happy with their 10 or 12 digit bank accounts and lavish lifestyles and would never shoot the hand that feeds them. They would never sacrifice their cushy offices and ships in an effort to demonstrate to CCP just how serious the issues in Null are.

Sad too, since I, a carebear, would love to see Null as an active, vibrant place. I'd actually go out and actually peeveepee from time to time. I'd run ore, modules, whatever to and from highsec. There's stuff out there I'd like to see.

I think the ESS has potential, but it should be shelved until SOV is fixed, POS coding, and the one huge blue doughnut broken up into a hundred small ones.

Wormhole income nerf is probably coming soon

Rubicon 1.2:
- Sleepers no longer drop databases
- New deployable. Has a chance to download databases from defeated sleepers in system. Has no effect if the wormhole does not have an active connection to K-space. Wormholes involved cannot be end of life or shrunk due to mass. They must have relay deployables anchored in every system along the path, including the first k-space system. The relays show globally on the overview, immediately alerting travelers that someone down the chain is ratting. Exciting Pvpve encounters are sure to follow.