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Peace between the Empire and the Republic, a Moderate viewpoint

Author
Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#221 - 2014-01-20 19:45:14 UTC
Ray Mitar wrote:
Katran Luftschreck wrote:

First: Orbital bombardment? Citation needed, bub. Orbital bombardment does not mesh with conquering a population. That's more of a Federation thing. Y'know, that whole "We come in peace, now scorch the whole planet" mentality that makes you two get along so famously. In fact, I'm not even sure that kind of tech was even around back then. I remember reading lots about transport ships landing, but orbital bombardment? Massacres?
First I am not surprised that you know nothing of the well documented history of the amarr invasions, that would indicate you would have a mind open enough to seek the truth.

Second I am surprised to see you have reformed your cowardly corp and have the nerve to speak in public again. Your quick surrender to our last wardec showed your true nature.

Read the history, the public history, and pull your head out of your rear end. You sound so childishly foolish.

However there is no point in engaging with Ammatar cowards who both surrender quickly and disband their corp when a wardec is filed, but come to think of it that it is what your ilk do, surrender when a threat is presented. Cowardice is your heritage.


What did you try to prove with a declaration of war ? That you can afford and pilot ships better than their corporation ?
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#222 - 2014-01-21 02:39:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Katran Luftschreck
N'maro Makari wrote:
"The initial volleys neutralized sixty-eight separate defense batteries while removing a mere ninety-eight thousand Minmatar from the viable worker stock. Praise unto God."

- Intercepted Amarr Navy transmission during orbital bombardment of "Eanna", Planet VI, The Hror System.


I stand corrected, then. Well, technically. What I'm reading here is that they were aiming at military targets and not civilian ones, tho, right? Which is not exactly the same picture that the Republic version of history paints.


Ray Mitar wrote:
Yet another dong-waving rant


First: It's not my company. I just work here. Our CEO doesn't share my level of animosity towards our barbarian ancestors back in the Republic. Just me.

Second: Shooting at unarmed civilian mining ships sure is a great way to show everyone what a mighty warrior you really are, yeup. Stay classy.

But in case you were wondering, we decided that as long as we were going to be the target of cowardly terrorists (that's you) who only prey on industry corps (that's us) that we might as well spend some time doing some basic combat training with people who've had lots of experience with that sort of thing. So we did, and now we're back to where we were before.

Third: Tribal Liberation Front is thataway, if you've got the balls for it. I'm sure PIE and the rest of the 24th would be more than happy to see you go waving your dong around in an actual warzone. Let me know how that works out for you.

Or are you too scared?

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0

Ray Mitar
Ganksters Inc
#223 - 2014-01-21 05:22:37 UTC
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
N'maro Makari wrote:
"The initial volleys neutralized sixty-eight separate defense batteries while removing a mere ninety-eight thousand Minmatar from the viable worker stock. Praise unto God."

- Intercepted Amarr Navy transmission during orbital bombardment of "Eanna", Planet VI, The Hror System.


I stand corrected, then. Well, technically. What I'm reading here is that they were aiming at military targets and not civilian ones, tho, right? Which is not exactly the same picture that the Republic version of history paints.


Ray Mitar wrote:
Yet another dong-waving rant


First: It's not my company. I just work here. Our CEO doesn't share my level of animosity towards our barbarian ancestors back in the Republic. Just me.

Second: Shooting at unarmed civilian mining ships sure is a great way to show everyone what a mighty warrior you really are, yeup. Stay classy.

But in case you were wondering, we decided that as long as we were going to be the target of cowardly terrorists (that's you) who only prey on industry corps (that's us) that we might as well spend some time doing some basic combat training with people who've had lots of experience with that sort of thing. So we did, and now we're back to where we were before.

Third: Tribal Liberation Front is thataway, if you've got the balls for it. I'm sure PIE and the rest of the 24th would be more than happy to see you go waving your dong around in an actual warzone. Let me know how that works out for you.

Or are you too scared?
I get that you are sexually frustrated ..... but to constantly mention dongs in a conversation that had nothing to do with them is pitiful. The slime that calls themselves ammatar never fails to reach new lows.
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#224 - 2014-01-21 05:57:14 UTC
If I was sexually frustrated I'd find myself a proper Amarrian husband.

With a job.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0

Katy Moore
J. S. Radioactive Sheep Farm
#225 - 2014-01-21 14:34:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Katy Moore
Lunarisse Aspenstar wrote:
Katy Moore wrote:
So, as long as Maleatu Shakor lives, and is in power, there can be no peace treaty with the Shakor Republic. But Maleatu Shakor is a capsuleer, so he is pseudo-immortal. Which is somewhat of an impasse.

Ms. Moore, given that it is no longer the "Shakor" Republic, but now organized differently, what are your thoughts? Is a peace possible given the new authorities in the Republic if the two sides were to arrive at the negotiation table?


Well, it's a bit early to tell, isn't it ?

Shakor's still the representative. And he's still an pseudo-immortal, so it's not like he'll be going away any time soon, is it ?

Tribal Council consists of 7 Tribal chiefs, plus Shakor. They say Shakor doesn't vote though. With 7 tribes, you'd think a 4/3 majority would be enough, but I think that some persons would consider Nefantar and Starkmanir to be compromised, that their tribal chiefs votes "don't count", because of those tribes associations in the past, what with the Ammatar Mandate and the Starkmanir being mostly members of the Church of Arzad and it's successor faiths.
Which leaves 5 Tribal chiefs. Some will say that the new Chief Midular is too inexperienced, so her vote "doesn't count", and also pour scorn on her late predecessor and alleged "appeasement". So that's 3 Tribes effectively written off by the other Tribes, as far as foreign policy is concerned. Well, I say other Tribes, but mostly the Brutor.
It may be possible to predict how the Brutor Tribe would vote, given their habit of idolising Shakor and promoting futile military adventures and so on.
Which leaves the Krusual, Vherokior and Thukker. The Thukker Tribe is divided, many question the whole notion that any one of their members has the authority to speak on behalf of the whole Thukker Tribe. Their vote would be considered shaky by many.
Vherokior Tribe members are frequently denigrated by the other Tribes as "shopkeepers" and "not in the big boys league", which does not generate confidence.
Which just leaves the Krusual, who are frequently described as "untrustworthy", by other Minmatar.

What this all means, is that the Brutor Tribe, with it's idolisation of Shakor, will probably continue the futile military adventure that is the Militia war, and shout down the other 6 Tribes. Nefantar are traitors, Starkmanir are brainwashed, Sebiestor are inexperienced, Thukkers are disunited, Vherokior are little shopkeepers, Krusual are untrustworthy. That would appear to be their views, and why those Tribes votes in the Council do not matter.

I do not expect this to change at all soon, and so, I do not yet see any realistic prospect of the new Tribal Council being any more able to sign a peace treaty to end the futile war.
Constantin Baracca
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#226 - 2014-01-21 14:59:05 UTC
Katy Moore wrote:
Lunarisse Aspenstar wrote:
Katy Moore wrote:
So, as long as Maleatu Shakor lives, and is in power, there can be no peace treaty with the Shakor Republic. But Maleatu Shakor is a capsuleer, so he is pseudo-immortal. Which is somewhat of an impasse.

Ms. Moore, given that it is no longer the "Shakor" Republic, but now organized differently, what are your thoughts? Is a peace possible given the new authorities in the Republic if the two sides were to arrive at the negotiation table?


Well, it's a bit early to tell, isn't it ?

Shakor's still the representative. And he's still an pseudo-immortal, so it's not like he'll be going away any time soon, is it ?

Tribal Council consists of 7 Tribal chiefs, plus Shakor. They say Shakor doesn't vote though. With 7 tribes, you'd think a 4/3 majority would be enough, but I think that some persons would consider Nefantar and Starkmanir to be compromised, that their tribal chiefs votes "don't count", because of those tribes associations in the past, what with the Ammatar Mandate and the Starkmanir being mostly members of the Church of Arzad and it's successor faiths.
Which leaves 5 Tribal chiefs. Some will say that the new Chief Midular is too inexperienced, so her vote "doesn't count", and also pour scorn on her late predecessor and alleged "appeasement". So that's 3 Tribes effectively written off by the other Tribes, as far as foreign policy is concerned. Well, I say other Tribes, but mostly the Brutor.
It may be possible to predict how the Brutor Tribe would vote, given their habit of idolising Shakor and promoting futile military adventures and so on.
Which leaves the Krusual, Vherokior and Thukker. The Thukker Tribe is divided, many question the whole notion that any one of their members has the authority to speak on behalf of the whole Thukker Tribe. Their vote would be considered shaky by many.
Vherokior Tribe members are frequently denigrated by the other Tribes as "shopkeepers" and "not in the big boys league", which does not generate confidence.
Which just leaves the Krusual, who are frequently described as "untrustworthy", by other Minmatar.

What this all means, is that the Brutor Tribe, with it's idolisation of Shakor, will probably continue the futile military adventure that is the Militia war, and shout down the other 6 Tribes. Nefantar are traitors, Starkmanir are brainwashed, Sebiestor are inexperienced, Thukkers are disunited, Vherokior are little shopkeepers, Krusual are untrustworthy. That would appear to be their views, and why those Tribes votes in the Council do not matter.

I do not expect this to change at all soon, and so, I do not yet see any realistic prospect of the new Tribal Council being any more able to sign a peace treaty to end the futile war.


I wouldn't be so sure about the new chief of the Sebiestor. While the Brutor do seem to rule the roost, Acassa Midular has a lot of support, particularly because, outside the military, the Sebiestor are much more representative of the scientific end of the Republic. So while the Brutor may protect you in far off lands, it's the Sebiestor that made sure you have water on your dry planet or that you've grown specialized bacteria that eat methane and defecate clean air.

More importantly, the new Midular may be considered by some to be underexperienced, but that last name means something. Not just to the Matari, either, but also to the rest of the cluster. While Shakor may be something of a Brutor's Brutor, his reputation is rather poor outside of the Republic. Midular's name carries respect not just through her tribe, but straight into the heart of even the Amarr Empire. While Acassa may not have earned that herself yet, that respect seems to have been passed on as an inheritance. Even I have a bit more faith in her for reasonable negotiation than I ought to, simply because of her mother's legacy of wise insight.

Of course, I'm late to the capsuleer game. I wonder if Amarrian capsuleers appreciated her while she was alive and before we had to deal with the Shakor administration. Regardless, even as a baseliner I had certainly heard of her and she was not spoken of without due respect in my house. And this is from a family whose closest Matari family servants are Brutor.

Regardless, while many things might require a tribal vote, the idea of the tribal structure is that the tribes manage their own affairs. That means we can actually make peace with those tribes that wish to carry on the Pax Amarria. I know my life has already gotten easier in Republic space. Three cheers for having my charges of aiding and abetting a felon dropped in a Sebiestor court! Apparently, the judge thought the charges were "largely fictionalized, obviously political, and had no standing in a court of law."

"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"

-Matthew 16:26

N'maro Makari
Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
Arataka Research Consortium
#227 - 2014-01-21 18:04:00 UTC
Katy Moore wrote:
Lunarisse Aspenstar wrote:
Katy Moore wrote:
So, as long as Maleatu Shakor lives, and is in power, there can be no peace treaty with the Shakor Republic. But Maleatu Shakor is a capsuleer, so he is pseudo-immortal. Which is somewhat of an impasse.

Ms. Moore, given that it is no longer the "Shakor" Republic, but now organized differently, what are your thoughts? Is a peace possible given the new authorities in the Republic if the two sides were to arrive at the negotiation table?


Well, it's a bit early to tell, isn't it ?

Shakor's still the representative. And he's still an pseudo-immortal, so it's not like he'll be going away any time soon, is it ?

Tribal Council consists of 7 Tribal chiefs, plus Shakor. They say Shakor doesn't vote though. With 7 tribes, you'd think a 4/3 majority would be enough, but I think that some persons would consider Nefantar and Starkmanir to be compromised, that their tribal chiefs votes "don't count", because of those tribes associations in the past, what with the Ammatar Mandate and the Starkmanir being mostly members of the Church of Arzad and it's successor faiths.
Which leaves 5 Tribal chiefs. Some will say that the new Chief Midular is too inexperienced, so her vote "doesn't count", and also pour scorn on her late predecessor and alleged "appeasement". So that's 3 Tribes effectively written off by the other Tribes, as far as foreign policy is concerned. Well, I say other Tribes, but mostly the Brutor.
It may be possible to predict how the Brutor Tribe would vote, given their habit of idolising Shakor and promoting futile military adventures and so on.
Which leaves the Krusual, Vherokior and Thukker. The Thukker Tribe is divided, many question the whole notion that any one of their members has the authority to speak on behalf of the whole Thukker Tribe. Their vote would be considered shaky by many.
Vherokior Tribe members are frequently denigrated by the other Tribes as "shopkeepers" and "not in the big boys league", which does not generate confidence.
Which just leaves the Krusual, who are frequently described as "untrustworthy", by other Minmatar.

What this all means, is that the Brutor Tribe, with it's idolisation of Shakor, will probably continue the futile military adventure that is the Militia war, and shout down the other 6 Tribes. Nefantar are traitors, Starkmanir are brainwashed, Sebiestor are inexperienced, Thukkers are disunited, Vherokior are little shopkeepers, Krusual are untrustworthy. That would appear to be their views, and why those Tribes votes in the Council do not matter.

I do not expect this to change at all soon, and so, I do not yet see any realistic prospect of the new Tribal Council being any more able to sign a peace treaty to end the futile war.


It seems to me that there are significant gaps in your knowledge, and those gaps have influenced your predictions. We'll put aside for a minute, how you seem to believe the council would happily break the voting system it went to great lengths to create just 'cause old wounds, because I think there is a bigger issue. You radically overestimate internal conflict within the Republic, and distort how we view our cousins.

The Sebiestor Tribe may be inexperienced, but they are the core of the Republics intellectual engine. The Krusual Tribe may be slow to trust, but they do not break that trust when it is earned. The Vherokior may not wield power, but we know its nuances and tend to its source. The Brutor Tribe may be militant, but they know, more than most, what they struggle for. The Thukker Tribe are disunited in lifestyle, but united in purpose. The Nefantar Tribe may carry the shame of the past, but since their return they have been nothing if not loyal and helpful to our people. The Starkmanir ways may seem alien to us, but they remind us why the Republic is worth the effort.

We are a team, a team of unique, indomitable and irreplaceable identities, who work together to ensure each other's survival and prosperity.

We are not bone-wearing savages trying to gore each other with pointy rocks over who gets to wear the biggest hat.

**Vherokior **

Constantin Baracca
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#228 - 2014-01-21 18:27:24 UTC
N'maro Makari wrote:


It seems to me that there are significant gaps in your knowledge, and those gaps have influenced your predictions. We'll put aside for a minute, how you seem to believe the council would happily break the voting system it went to great lengths to create just 'cause old wounds, because I think there is a bigger issue. You radically overestimate internal conflict within the Republic, and distort how we view our cousins.

The Sebiestor Tribe may be inexperienced, but they are the core of the Republics intellectual engine. The Krusual Tribe may be slow to trust, but they do not break that trust when it is earned. The Vherokior may not wield power, but we know its nuances and tend to its source. The Brutor Tribe may be militant, but they know, more than most, what they struggle for. The Thukker Tribe are disunited in lifestyle, but united in purpose. The Nefantar Tribe may carry the shame of the past, but since their return they have been nothing if not loyal and helpful to our people. The Starkmanir ways may seem alien to us, but they remind us why the Republic is worth the effort.

We are a team, a team of unique, indomitable and irreplaceable identities, who work together to ensure each other's survival and prosperity.

We are not bone-wearing savages trying to gore each other with pointy rocks over who gets to wear the biggest hat.



I think you're taking her a bit out of context. We Amarrians have a pretty well-researched belief that the odds of internal conflict rise proportionally to how many people wield ultimate power, reduced by how many enemies you have to unite against. I think the prevailing belief among Amarrians regarding the current political crisis is that there will eventually be a conflict and that conflict will inevitably become our problem since, when you have internal dissent, every leader looks outward to point out an enemy.

Amarrian life is just waiting for that other shoe to drop. I'm hopeful we can sign peace treaties of some nature that will avert the damage when it happens, but it doesn't seem to be a question of "if" it will happen, but "when" and "how bad will it be for all of us." At best, you get the Gallente style of governance where so many people dislike each others' politics that the whole thing holds together in a state of mutual tension. At worst, a major schism develops, a civil war erupts, and a few tribes try to unify their people by completely obliterating the Pax Amarria on their side. Then we get total war.

I think the slightly prevailing sentiment is that it's better to have a stable Minmatar Republic that we can try to teach the Word to in a more benign and perhaps gradual way than to have warfare of any kind, no matter who wins. That doesn't just save Amarrian lives, but also Matari (and, depending on how bad it gets, Gallente and Caldari lives). That's why it suits all of us to make peace with as many tribes as possible, so that when inevitable conflict does kick off, it's easier for the Republic to handle internally and thus we might avoid feeling you thrash around on our side of the bed.

You must have thought about this at some point, what would happen if a civil war breaks out here between the Heir Families or something of that nature. We like to say that it doesn't happen often, that things here are stable and we never disagree. But, in the nigh-infinite timescale of human history, even we'd be fools to say "never". Always be prepared for the worst.

"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"

-Matthew 16:26

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#229 - 2014-01-21 18:46:24 UTC
Anyone looking to do a deal with 'The Republic' as a whole is missing the opportunity that a de-centralised power structure brings. If you find the Brutor too martial, the Krusual too shifty etc, etc etc - simply do a deal with a tribe you can find common ground with.

If the deals you offer bring mutual advantage then you won't have to worry about selling them to 'The Council' as the tribe benefiting will do that for you! A wholly centralised power structure is something I find unnatural and dangerous. They make me nervous - as no one human being has been found worthy of carrying ultimate power, without checks and balances.

Far better to have a de-centralised structure. A collection of interests. Something for everyone.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Constantin Baracca
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#230 - 2014-01-21 18:49:59 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Anyone looking to do a deal with 'The Republic' as a whole is missing the opportunity that a de-centralised power structure brings. If you find the Brutor too martial, the Krusual too shifty etc, etc etc - simply do a deal with a tribe you can find common ground with.

If the deals you offer bring mutual advantage then you won't have to worry about selling them to 'The Council' as the tribe benefiting will do that for you! A wholly centralised power structure is something I find unnatural and dangerous. They make me nervous - as no one human being has been found worthy of carrying ultimate power, without checks and balances.

Far better to have a de-centralised structure. A collection of interests. Something for everyone.


We may have to agree to disagree on the centralized structure, as I've found them to be much more beneficial in promoting the rule of law and order. But I do agree that it's far easier to deal with the council rather than the former Republic. They had a Gallente system of democracy, their tribal structure, and still invested considerable power in the hands of their Sanmatar before the reshuffle. While somewhat dangerous, it does provide opportunities so that, when that unrest does break out, if you've signed peace treaties respected by, say, five or six tribes, you can handle the repercussions that echo outside the Republic.

"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"

-Matthew 16:26

Katy Moore
J. S. Radioactive Sheep Farm
#231 - 2014-01-21 19:02:28 UTC
N'maro Makari wrote:

It seems to me that there are significant gaps in your knowledge, and those gaps have influenced your predictions.
You radically overestimate internal conflict within the Republic, and distort how we view our cousins.
We are a team, a team of unique, indomitable and irreplaceable identities, who work together to ensure each other's survival and prosperity.


That is not how the Scope News agency, amongst other news agencies, portrays things. Gallente and Minmatar news agencies, not the Amarr Certified News, who you might expect to portray the Republic in as negative a light as they can.

Instead, they report on incidents such as a riot at a Krusual Tribe funeral, where Brutor Tribe protestors claimed the Krusual were not following the right traditions. The riot ended with 17 more people requiring funerals.

As well as more recent, more well known events, such as the treatment of Starkmanir, Nefantar, and recent arrivals to the Republic.
Matar Ronin
#232 - 2014-01-21 19:07:25 UTC
Constantin Baracca wrote:
I know my life has already gotten easier in Republic space. Three cheers for having my charges of aiding and abetting a felon dropped in a Sebiestor court! Apparently, the judge thought the charges were "largely fictionalized, obviously political, and had no standing in a court of law."
Your persistent lies about leaving stations and the safety of the captain's quarters is at best laughable. You are an amarrian with a bounty on your head and you spin the fantasy that you walk among the Minmatar Republic spreading your faith and experiencing victories in our legal system of justice.

When you were charged were you arrested and placed in custody? Why is it that no one collected your bounty while you were in custody? A cellmate not amazed by your religious ranting perhaps? What chance would you give a Minmatar Republic citizen charged with the same offense in the amarr empire?

Please find a better fantasy to share here on IGS no one believes you are converting Matari to your faith while walking outside your capsule in the Minmatar Republic, or anywhere else to be honest.

I write this while sitting in the station in Sarum Prime, true we capsuleers without militia or criminal flags can go most anywhere but your fantasy of walking around with your bounty outside of a station is just too imaginative to stomach. Get a new gimmick.

These type of persistent lies are exactly what diminishes the chance for peace between our peoples, you amarrians are locked into self satisfying fantasies divorced from common sense and reason.

‘Vain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.’

" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#233 - 2014-01-21 19:17:14 UTC
To be fair, I've also left the Capsuleer section of orbitals in the Minmatar Republic and walked under the blue skies of the worlds below - granted whilst not calling quite so much attention to myself, but the Republic has, by no means, an omniscient Internal Security infrastructure.

In some places access can simply be bought. In others, rudimentary false papers and an interbus flight are suffcient to quiet the hounds who are supposed to be watching for you.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Matar Ronin
#234 - 2014-01-21 19:19:07 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
To be fair, I've also left the Capsuleer section of orbitals in the Minmatar Republic and walked under the blue skies of the worlds below - granted whilst not calling quite so much attention to myself, but the Republic has, by no means, an omniscient Internal Security infrastructure.

In some places access can simply be bought. In others, rudimentary false papers and an interbus flight are suffcient to quiet the hounds who are supposed to be watching for you.
By what method did you get to the surface?

‘Vain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.’

" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#235 - 2014-01-21 19:30:33 UTC
Matar Ronin wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
To be fair, I've also left the Capsuleer section of orbitals in the Minmatar Republic and walked under the blue skies of the worlds below - granted whilst not calling quite so much attention to myself, but the Republic has, by no means, an omniscient Internal Security infrastructure.

In some places access can simply be bought. In others, rudimentary false papers and an interbus flight are suffcient to quiet the hounds who are supposed to be watching for you.
By what method did you get to the surface?


Any number of shuttles can be chartered. Some are simple fee paying jobs, and for those you have to withstand a varying amount of database scrutiny, cheap enough to work around that, you can usually find people selling fraudulent identities just off the station concourse. Some of those people can also arrange a quiet and out of the way seat on a planetbound hauler or transport.

For significantly more, although still very cheap for an Empyrean, you can simply charter a flight to the surface. Many captains with private short-ranged vessels can be persuaded to provide this service. At the downports themselves, of course, getting flights off world is similarly easy.

Obviously local conditions prevail - anything that puts local security on alert can lead to retinal scans, background checks and other unfortunate complications.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Constantin Baracca
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#236 - 2014-01-21 19:33:45 UTC
Matar Ronin wrote:
Constantin Baracca wrote:
I know my life has already gotten easier in Republic space. Three cheers for having my charges of aiding and abetting a felon dropped in a Sebiestor court! Apparently, the judge thought the charges were "largely fictionalized, obviously political, and had no standing in a court of law."
Your persistent lies about leaving stations and the safety of the captain's quarters is at best laughable. You are an amarrian with a bounty on your head and you spin the fantasy that you walk among the Minmatar Republic spreading your faith and experiencing victories in our legal system of justice.

When you were charged were you arrested and placed in custody? Why is it that no one collected your bounty while you were in custody? A cellmate not amazed by your religious ranting perhaps? What chance would you give a Minmatar Republic citizen charged with the same offense in the amarr empire?

Please find a better fantasy to share here on IGS no one believes you are converting Matari to your faith while walking outside your capsule in the Minmatar Republic, or anywhere else to be honest.

I write this while sitting in the station in Sarum Prime, true we capsuleers without militia or criminal flags can go most anywhere but your fantasy of walking around with your bounty outside of a station is just too imaginative to stomach. Get a new gimmick.

These type of persistent lies are exactly what diminishes the chance for peace between our peoples, you amarrians are locked into self satisfying fantasies divorced from common sense and reason.


Actually, the bounty on my head is from Slaver Filth. The reason I wasn't remanded to custody is because I have a good lawyer and grasp of legal concepts. The reason I'm not always in trouble for being an Amarrian preacher that operates primarily out of Matari space is because I'm allowed in the Republic. The Matari people sometimes take a dim view of their own people, or they simply underestimate how many of their own people still believe in God. Matari space isn't a shooting gallery, despite the claims to the contrary among my own people.

Why do you think they're going to flay my skin off and bend my ribs outwards in the Republic? It might not be the gilded halls of Amarr Prime, but it isn't the dark ages. It probably also helps, as I've previously mentioned, my grandmother is a freedwoman of Brutor descent and a cardinal in the Amarr Empire. It also helps to not walk around the Republic thinking they're barbarians whose rights extend as far as their rifle range.

The particulars of the case are fairly straightforward. I was charged with helping someone get to the Ammatar Mandate, whose former master had legally freed left him and left him their holdings. That was fine for most people, but the local government decided that the second he had accepted the holdings legally, he'd become a felon and a fugitive, and thus arranging his transportation to better circumstances meant that I was aiding in his "escape". The local sheriff was a bit miffed that one of his less fortunate miscreants was about to inherit a parcel of land and a small business. Since the direct target of his ire was gone, he decided to issue a warrant for my arrest.

I'm not sure if he thought I wouldn't appear in a Republican court, but I have always held myself to the standard of the Matari legal system. There is nothing illegal about preaching in most jurisdictions (so it's good to know the few you can't walk into). Luckily, my judge took one look at the warrant, gave me bail, and told me to come back a few weeks after she had gathered the relevant evidence. The trial took less than a day and it was found that the man leaving Matari space had no outstanding warrants at the time and that I was not aiding in the flight of a criminal from justice.

Have a little faith in your own legal system. They're not designed to lock up everyone.

In the case of a Republican citizen in Amarr space helping an Ammarian get to his inheritance in Republican space? It's not illegal, though I'd be hard-pressed to see why that would happen. There aren't many Amarrians working the land out there for Matari masters to feel they deserve to have it.

"What good will it be for someone to gain the whole world, yet forfeit their soul? Or what can anyone give in exchange for their soul?"

-Matthew 16:26

Matar Ronin
#237 - 2014-01-21 19:35:40 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Matar Ronin wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
To be fair, I've also left the Capsuleer section of orbitals in the Minmatar Republic and walked under the blue skies of the worlds below - granted whilst not calling quite so much attention to myself, but the Republic has, by no means, an omniscient Internal Security infrastructure.

In some places access can simply be bought. In others, rudimentary false papers and an interbus flight are suffcient to quiet the hounds who are supposed to be watching for you.
By what method did you get to the surface?


Any number of shuttles can be chartered. Some are simple fee paying jobs, and for those you have to withstand a varying amount of database scrutiny, cheap enough to work around that, you can usually find people selling fraudulent identities just off the station concourse. Some of those people can also arrange a quiet and out of the way seat on a planetbound hauler or transport.

For significantly more, although still very cheap for an Empyrean, you can simply charter a flight to the surface. Many captains with private short-ranged vessels can be persuaded to provide this service. At the downports themselves, of course, getting flights off world is similarly easy.

Obviously local conditions prevail - anything that puts local security on alert can lead to retinal scans, background checks and other unfortunate complications.
Thank you this information is quite useful sir. I am in your debt.

Additionally if it is indeed this easy to get passage to the surface of worlds I do apologize to Baracca for doubting his veracity.

‘Vain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.’

" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#238 - 2014-01-21 19:39:26 UTC
I used to work in Orbital Security and I was somewhat dismayed to discover how easy all our clever little protocols are to sidestep. I suppose that's what you get for flying in the face of a thousand years worth of private enterprise.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Matar Ronin
#239 - 2014-01-21 19:43:55 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
I used to work in Orbital Security and I was somewhat dismayed to discover how easy all our clever little protocols are to sidestep. I suppose that's what you get for flying in the face of a thousand years worth of private enterprise.

I am here to learn all I can. Sure I have strongly held opinions, but they always are subject to being changed by new facts.

I am not so high and mighty as to think I can never be wrong, and indeed man enough to apologize when I have injured someone's reputation by my falsely based conclusion.

‘Vain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.’

" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#240 - 2014-01-21 19:58:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Pieter Tuulinen
Constantin Baracca wrote:

We may have to agree to disagree on the centralized structure, as I've found them to be much more beneficial in promoting the rule of law and order. But I do agree that it's far easier to deal with the council rather than the former Republic. They had a Gallente system of democracy, their tribal structure, and still invested considerable power in the hands of their Sanmatar before the reshuffle. While somewhat dangerous, it does provide opportunities so that, when that unrest does break out, if you've signed peace treaties respected by, say, five or six tribes, you can handle the repercussions that echo outside the Republic.


Not terribly surprising to find an Amarrian extolling the virtues of centralised government, Father! In fact I'd be shocked to find you taking any other position on the matter.

That said, the Caldari State is perhaps the most famous of the four empire states for it's rigorous application of law and order and the only time that was seriously threatened was during our recent flirtation with centralised control.

May it never be repeated.

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.