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Stealth Bombers for Ganking Relic + Data sites
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Dkeh Weis
Digital Innovations
#1 - 2014-01-21 15:02:02 UTC
I want to know what you guys think about this fit. Having never used a SB to shoot at a frig, I have no idea how effectively the damage would scale. I know they are not NORMALLY used to shoot at frigs, but I will get into that. The intention of this ship is to sit cloaked in relic + data sites, and gank exploration frigs, or possibly even a cruiser.

I chose a stealth bomber for a few reasons. First (obviously) is the covops cloak. Second is that the hull is cheap. A stratios is obviously preferable to a SB, but they are expensive, and I am sure I will lose a few of these. Third, the targeting delay on decloak is much shorter. I specifically picked the Nemesis for the 5/4/2 layout, rather than the traditional 5/3/3 that most people use with the hound.

The fitting, and some stats:

Lows:
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II

Mids:
Passive Targeter II
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I
1 MN Microwarpdrive II
Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron

Hi:
Torpedo Launcher II
Torpedo Launcher II
Torpedo Launcher II
CovertOps Cloak II
Core Probe Launcer I

Rigs:
Small Processor Overclocking Unit I
Small Processor Overclocking Unit I

Ammo is Caldari Navy Inferno Torps

With all skills at V, stats are as follows:

DPS: 553
Alpha: 4462

EHP: 1690

Align Time: 6
Warp Time: 7

Scan Resolution: 531.3

Cap Lasts 1:44
Stable at 70% without MWD

Speed: 330 m/s
Speed with MWD: 1940 m/s

How I intend to use it-

Sit in a relic / data site cloaked, waiting for a target. Approach cloaked to within 40 - 50 km. Once target is interfaced with a can, target, paint, fire first volley, MWD towards target. Second volley fires in transit. MWD bump target, activate point. Third volley fires somewhere around this point.

My questions are as follows:

Realistically, will these do enough damage to a frig to kill it in three volleys?

Will this do enough damage to a cruiser (read: stratios) to kill it in 4 volleys?

Am I on crack, and this is a completely stupid idea?

Eve will make you work a solid month all on your own for your first cookie. Then kick you in the nuts and take that cookie, and laugh at you for thinking you could have a cookie at all.
Sid Crash
#2 - 2014-01-21 15:21:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Sid Crash
start up EFT
fit your bomber of choice
load a standard frigate
click file >dps graph
rightclick in white field, add attacker bomber target frigate
check the applied dps

then start doing some EHP maths and come to the conclusion that you can start shooting a frigate at range, he can MWD towards you and fck you up before you even get through his shields.
Dkeh Weis
Digital Innovations
#3 - 2014-01-21 15:25:55 UTC
Sid Crash wrote:


then start doing some EHP maths and come to the conclusion that you can start shooting a frigate at range, he can MWD towards you and fck you up before you even get through his shields.


I am going under the assumption that almost every frig running data / relics sites has almost no weaponry, and no tank.
I obviously wouldn't engage a dramiel with this.

Eve will make you work a solid month all on your own for your first cookie. Then kick you in the nuts and take that cookie, and laugh at you for thinking you could have a cookie at all.
Leafar Nightfall
Silent Owls
#4 - 2014-01-21 15:30:06 UTC
If you're going to shoot frigates, I think you'd do better with rocket launchers instead of torpedos. At least most of the fits I found when googling about it were built that way
Sid Crash
#5 - 2014-01-21 15:33:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Sid Crash
While I agree that most explorers will be teeth less it's still a bit **** also because they'll be faster than you, so you would have to web them. But doing so means you can get caught by a Battle Helios or a Combat Heron or similar.

Stuff like this and yes they're out there :)

[Heron, Combat]
Damage Control II
Ballistic Control System II

1MN Afterburner II
Small Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 25
Small Ancillary Shield Booster, Cap Booster 25
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I

Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Rocket
Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Inferno Rocket
Improved Cloaking Device II

Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
Small Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Small Anti-Kinetic Screen Reinforcer I

Warrior II x3
Silvetica Dian
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2014-01-21 15:34:49 UTC
Leafar Nightfall wrote:
If you're going to shoot frigates, I think you'd do better with rocket launchers instead of torpedos. At least most of the fits I found when googling about it were built that way


If you are targeting cov ops frigs then rocket launchers, as the guy above says, on the bomber actually apply more dps even though not bonused for them. I would fit a sensor booster with scan res script over the passive targeter and time my attack for while they are playing the mini game.

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Dkeh Weis
Digital Innovations
#7 - 2014-01-21 15:35:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Dkeh Weis
Leafar Nightfall wrote:
If you're going to shoot frigates, I think you'd do better with rocket launchers instead of torpedos. At least most of the fits I found when googling about it were built that way


I was thinking something similar, and am going to run that through EFT as well.

As for the damage graph, I have never used it before.
I have selected the same fit as the target, as it has similar EHP and resists as a Covops explo ship.

http://i.imgur.com/NdLDAws.jpg

Edited: Fixed Link

Edit:

The general concensus is to fir Rocket Launchers. I will redo the fitting

Eve will make you work a solid month all on your own for your first cookie. Then kick you in the nuts and take that cookie, and laugh at you for thinking you could have a cookie at all.
Sid Crash
#8 - 2014-01-21 15:38:37 UTC
The target isn't moving while running MWD :)
Dkeh Weis
Digital Innovations
#9 - 2014-01-21 15:41:02 UTC
Sid Crash wrote:
The target isn't moving while running MWD :)


Oops I don't know hwo to use the DPS graph. I though that looked WAY too high

Eve will make you work a solid month all on your own for your first cookie. Then kick you in the nuts and take that cookie, and laugh at you for thinking you could have a cookie at all.
Leafar Nightfall
Silent Owls
#10 - 2014-01-21 15:44:56 UTC
Sid Crash wrote:
While I agree that most explorers will be teeth less it's still a bit **** also because they'll be faster than you, so you would have to web them. But doing so means you can get caught by a Battle Helios or a Combat Heron or similar.

Stuff like this and yes they're out there :)


I've made a similar combat fit, but my intention was to kill of competitors and not counter gankers. So I fit for relic/data and no tank, in order to be able to run the sites even if there's no one else to kill. I'm still lacking the fitting skills for it so I haven't tested it yet, but it seems it would work:

High:
2x Ligth Electron Blaster II + Void S
Core Probe Launcher I

Med:
Limited 1MN MWD I
Relic Analyzer I
Data Analyzer I
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambled
X5 Prototype Energy Enervator

Low:
2x Magnetic Field Stabilizer 2

Rigs:
Small Emission Scope Sharpener I
Small Gravity Capacitor Upgrade I

145DPS but paper thin with 1240 EHP
Sid Crash
#11 - 2014-01-21 15:48:29 UTC
Dkeh Weis wrote:
Sid Crash wrote:
The target isn't moving while running MWD :)


Oops I don't know hwo to use the DPS graph. I though that looked WAY too high


If you're interested in how EFT works and how to figure stuff out have a look here, slight warning; that EFT guide is uhm... a bit long :)
Treborr MintingtonJr
S.N.O.T
S.N.O.T.
#12 - 2014-01-21 15:48:56 UTC
Dude my advice for the momenet an exploration ship enters.

Save a location which would put you in the middle of all the relics/data containers, go about your day to day business, once a ship enters, warp within dscan range in your relevant ship, wait and guess the moment they are hacking, warp in and kill. Scram ftw.
Dkeh Weis
Digital Innovations
#13 - 2014-01-21 15:50:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Dkeh Weis
Here is the updated fit:

http://imgur.com/3pbaY3z

Changes made:

Swapped the Torp launchers for Missila Launcher II
Swapped the TP for a sebo
Swapped the passive targeter for a web
Swapped CPU rigs for Calcefication Catalysts

Stats not shows on EFT: Helios speed with MWD is 3300 m/s

Edit: Forgot to load scan res scrip in sebo.
Resolution is 850 mm, lock time is 2.2 seconds on the helios

Eve will make you work a solid month all on your own for your first cookie. Then kick you in the nuts and take that cookie, and laugh at you for thinking you could have a cookie at all.
Leafar Nightfall
Silent Owls
#14 - 2014-01-21 15:56:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Leafar Nightfall
Dkeh Weis wrote:
Here is the updated fit:

http://imgur.com/3pbaY3z

Changes made:

Swapped the Torp launchers for Missila Launcher II
Swapped the TP for a sebo
Swapped the passive targeter for a web
Swapped CPU rigs for Calcefication Catalysts

Stats not shows on EFT: Helios speed with MWD is 3300 m/s


Looks good, there's only two tips I'd like to give:

J5B Phased Scrambler is way cheper then the Faint Epsilon if II remember well, and you have enough room for it. Limited MWDs on the other hand have better fitting and aren't too much expensive if I recall, so you can also use that to save room (although it's not needed)

And when you want to use two rigs for damage it's better if you use one for damage and one for rate of fire, unless you're trying to alpha something. That's because stacking penalties won't apply. If looking at DPS only and you can only fit one Rig, the rate of fire is usually better (I think it's called "Bay loading accelerator" for rockets/missiles)
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#15 - 2014-01-21 15:58:17 UTC
you will not need a sensor booster. You will have them half-locked before they even see that you've uncloaked. If anything fit a second web or a second scram. For max dps and assuming perfect application with rockets, fit a calefaction and a bay loading accelerator.

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Dkeh Weis
Digital Innovations
#16 - 2014-01-21 15:58:21 UTC
Leafar Nightfall wrote:


I've made a similar combat fit, but my intention was to kill of competitors and not counter gankers.


I can definitely see this working. Personally, I cloak up as soon as someone enters my system (in null, at least)

Eve will make you work a solid month all on your own for your first cookie. Then kick you in the nuts and take that cookie, and laugh at you for thinking you could have a cookie at all.
Dkeh Weis
Digital Innovations
#17 - 2014-01-21 16:05:47 UTC
Fit has been updated.

http://i.imgur.com/eqoUCmS.jpg

Changes Made:

Dropped sebo for 2n'd point
Changed Calefaction Catalyst for Loading Bay Accelerator

Eve will make you work a solid month all on your own for your first cookie. Then kick you in the nuts and take that cookie, and laugh at you for thinking you could have a cookie at all.
Leafar Nightfall
Silent Owls
#18 - 2014-01-21 16:08:39 UTC
Dkeh Weis wrote:


I can definitely see this working. Personally, I cloak up as soon as someone enters my system (in null, at least)


I do that too and I most of the time I meet someone else, they also cloack up. This is more a bait to play a "Wolf in sheeps clothing" in case other explorers don't get shy and try to run the same site as you are in.

Although I noticed that explorers tend to be friendly and follow a "code" of not competing with you for the same site if you're already in...
Atog Uz
Help Desk Please Hold
#19 - 2014-01-21 16:09:18 UTC
I spend a lot of time doing relic/data sites.

I would encourage you to use torps. Rockets are just pesky little things, you don't want to use those. ;)


Seriously though. The only successful ganks SB have pulled on me is with rockets.

2 days ago I had a SB start shooting me with torps.

I motored over to him and let loose the drones.

My HobII's chewed him up before I was out of shield. I would have gotten the kill if I had a point. I am seriously thinking about making a couple bait ships to pop SBs with.

Other things that have tried to gank me this week. A drake (twice), a Loki, a Tengu with Condor buddy, a Rupture, a Stratios, and the minnie interceptor (can't think of name)

I don't even know what the cruiser sized guys are thinking. I am in warp before they get a target lock.

Living in low sec keeps you sharp.
Dkeh Weis
Digital Innovations
#20 - 2014-01-21 16:23:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Dkeh Weis
Leafar Nightfall wrote:


Although I noticed that explorers tend to be friendly and follow a "code" of not competing with you for the same site if you're already in...


Tell that to the very aggressive probe pilot that I had to keep bumping in Pure Blind the other night!
Bumping should do 10 damage. Then we could compete to see whom is the better bumper.

Atog Uz wrote:


My HobII's chewed him up before I was out of shield. I would have gotten the kill if I had a point.
...

I don't even know what the cruiser sized guys are thinking. I am in warp before they get a target lock.


I would assume you are using an Astero then? And what you say about the cruisers getting a lock is the exact reason I want to use a SB. Well, that and I am cheap.

Eve will make you work a solid month all on your own for your first cookie. Then kick you in the nuts and take that cookie, and laugh at you for thinking you could have a cookie at all.
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