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Dev blog: More Deployables from Super Friends

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CCP SoniClover
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1741 - 2014-01-21 13:58:06 UTC
War Kitten wrote:


So accessing the ESS now points you. Is it like a dictor's infinipoint, or will warp core stabs help?
Will it prevent MWD or MJD?
If you move out of range of the ESS, do you become unpointed, or are you stuck there until the timer runs out?


Regarding the warp disruption effect, we're still tweaking the effect, so it's not 100% set right now, but most likely will be similar to infinity point that does not prevent MWD or MJD.

Regarding moving out of range, this stops you interacting with the ESS (resetting the timer), so the effect stops.
Georgiy Giggle
Senclave
Apocalypse Now.
#1742 - 2014-01-21 13:58:35 UTC
Come on players, stop going on compromise!!! Just say NO!

ESS is crap even with LP reward. IMHO!
Just remove this useless code from eve!!! And never add it!

Then only way to keep it ingame, as for me, is not to decrease base bounty reward. Let it be 100%.
Who wants more - let them set up ESS. Who does not want, then stop nerfing GAME!

P.S. I have last 15 days on my alt. Not going to pay for it anymore. And will think about my main. I do not like such aweful stuff that devs are doing.
Should do old thing that promised (INCARNA) instead of generation new and not very smart ideas.

Not mastering proprieties, won't become firmly established. - Confucius
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#1743 - 2014-01-21 13:58:42 UTC
War Kitten wrote:
CCP SoniClover wrote:
Here's a quick update on the changes we've made to the ESS, based on testing and feedback. There is a dev blog coming out tomorrow detailing these (and other changes) to the deployables in 1.1, but here's a basic overview.

Additions/edit
* With an active ESS in system, bounties pay out LP in addition to normal ISK reward. LP reward starts at 0.15 LP per 1000 ISK and can increase to 0.2 LP per 1000 ISK as the bonus payout increases. As an example, a bounty worth 1 million ISK (total) gives between 150 and 200 LPs, based on payout level. This is to address the risk vs. reward concerns. Thanks to those that suggested using LPs instead of ISK for balance.
* There is now no timer to open the ESS window where the player gets to choose to Share or Take all, but both options now have separate timers on them. Share has 20 seconds, Take all has 180 seconds. Moving out of range while the timer is ongoing resets the timer. This is to reduce the feasibility of having an alt sit at the ESS and quickly empty the pool when someone shows up.
* Interacting with the ESS now puts a warp disruption effect on the ship interacting with it. Ships immune to bubbles are not immune to this effect. This is to reduce the feasibility of using ships immune to bubbles for stealing purposes.

Also, some of the stats have changed:
* Price lowered from 30 million to 25 million
* Hit points increased from 150k to 250k
* Volume increased from 150 to 200
* Increased minimum range from stargates/stations to 3000 km, from 300.
* Activation time increased to 120 seconds, up from 60 seconds

Some of these changes are already out on Sisi, the rest should be there soon. Thank you all for your feedback.




So accessing the ESS now points you. Is it like a dictor's infinipoint, or will warp core stabs help?
Will it prevent MWD or MJD?
If you move out of range of the ESS, do you become unpointed, or are you stuck there until the timer runs out?


Those are good questions. I might try to jump on SiSi later and test it.
Tahnil
Gunboat Commando
#1744 - 2014-01-21 14:01:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Tahnil
Mah Boobz wrote:

From dumb to dumber.
Thanks for devaluing all 4 empire navy's LP.
It's not like the people that grinded standings and missions for LP should be rewarded, naa screw that, make it so EVERY RAT IN NULL gives out navy LP!!

Edit: running numbers, that's about 15k LP per hour @ BASE, more when it upgrades. (based on 30mil ticks)
Tell me about how you want to avoid inflation again?


Every 1 day old character may freely engage in Level 1 missions for Navies.

The LPs gained by using ESS seem to be moderate, to say the least.

With regards to inflation: LP don‘t increase inflation, they are actually an ISK sink.
BadAssMcKill
Aliastra
#1745 - 2014-01-21 14:04:14 UTC
Hey what's the size of the ESS? I don't recall seeing it mentioned anywhere or is that still up in the air
Turelus
Utassi Security
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#1746 - 2014-01-21 14:06:39 UTC
Mah Boobz wrote:

From dumb to dumber.
Thanks for devaluing all 4 empire navy's LP.
It's not like the people that grinded standings and missions for LP should be rewarded, naa screw that, make it so EVERY RAT IN NULL gives out navy LP!!

Edit: running numbers, that's about 15k LP per hour @ BASE, more when it upgrades. (based on 30mil ticks)
Tell me about how you want to avoid inflation again?

If you're grinding Navy LP for money I think you're doing it wrong. Money from LP = SOE and Industry Corps, Navy LP has been the weakest for years because everyone think "working for the Navy will be cool!" then add the fact all the ships from the Navy stores are cheaper via FW where it's faster to grind LP.

In regards to the ESS thanks for the update.
The move towards LP is nice however I still have some questions and concerns with the module.

* Will there still be a 95%/80% drop in bounties or are all the bounties changes stripped now this is an LP module.

* The 180 seconds might still be a too short time to dock, switch ships, form gang, undock, pew. Players doing PVE tend to be caught off guard when reds come in.

* Some more understanding how the pointed system works would be nice.

* Is there any chance of making it so someone who isn't from the Alliance which dropped it would have to play the hacking game in order to access this? It would add something extra for the hacking game, add more realism that players are breaking into the module as well as giving the new SoE ships another nice area of gameplay.

Otherwise I'm glad to see work is being done towards this module, thank you for partially restoring my confidence.

Turelus CEO Utassi Security
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#1747 - 2014-01-21 14:09:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Altrue
This will heavily devaluate LP prices. Not that it is necessarily bad but there are some activities like lv5 mission running that are less and less matching the reward compared to the risk involved.

So overall if it wasn't for the viability of lv5s I'd say this is a good change !

Signature Tanking Best Tanking

[Ex-F] CEO - Eve-guides.fr

Ultimate Citadel Guide - 2016 EVE Career Chart
Grarr Dexx
Blue Canary
Watch This
#1748 - 2014-01-21 14:12:20 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
CCP SoniClover wrote:
War Kitten wrote:


So accessing the ESS now points you. Is it like a dictor's infinipoint, or will warp core stabs help?
Will it prevent MWD or MJD?
If you move out of range of the ESS, do you become unpointed, or are you stuck there until the timer runs out?


Regarding the warp disruption effect, we're still tweaking the effect, so it's not 100% set right now, but most likely will be similar to infinity point that does not prevent MWD or MJD.

Regarding moving out of range, this stops you interacting with the ESS (resetting the timer), so the effect stops.


So, has it been thought out what this would do to current LP valuations? Seems like this is another dildo rammed up the ass of people running level 5s, which seems to happen more and more
*Snip* Please refrain from using profanity. ISD Ezwal
Falkor1984
The Love Dragons
#1749 - 2014-01-21 14:13:04 UTC
Nice more hitpoints. Because every1 likes shooting structures!What?

You know what will happen with this feature:

- If this thing is deployed by friendly or enemy forces it wil get shot at since almost every major alliance is against them
- If there is an enemy in system the carebears will just wait till he leaves and only then shoot the structure
- If there is an enemy in system carebears will not rat, since they know they can get hotdropped, so the structure will not be filled, so there is zero effect. x LP per ratting bounty or x% of the ratting bounties equals to zero when there are no bounties. So there is no incentive for the enemy to stay in the system other then the already possible afk cloaky thing to block ratting.
- Adjusting and tweaking does not solve this problem in any which way. The core gameplay element is wrong: this is even more structure shooting and we dont like that. Why is that so hard to understand?

Conclusion: bad gamedesign, bad response to customer complaints (how long does a threadnaut need to be for CCP to understand something) and bad prioritizing of development resources.
Tahnil
Gunboat Commando
#1750 - 2014-01-21 14:17:44 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Grarr Dexx wrote:
CCP SoniClover wrote:
War Kitten wrote:


So accessing the ESS now points you. Is it like a dictor's infinipoint, or will warp core stabs help?
Will it prevent MWD or MJD?
If you move out of range of the ESS, do you become unpointed, or are you stuck there until the timer runs out?


Regarding the warp disruption effect, we're still tweaking the effect, so it's not 100% set right now, but most likely will be similar to infinity point that does not prevent MWD or MJD.

Regarding moving out of range, this stops you interacting with the ESS (resetting the timer), so the effect stops.


So, has it been thought out what this would do to current LP valuations? Seems like this is another dildo rammed up the ass of people running level 5s, which seems to happen more and more
*Snip* Please refrain from using profanity. ISD Ezwal


Yeah. But on the other hand there is such a thing as an open market: prices for navy LP items may drop, which in turn may lead to more people buying fancy navy LP stuff (such as Navy Battlecruisers and Navy Battleships), which in turn may lead to higher prices again.
Yeep
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1751 - 2014-01-21 14:18:43 UTC
CCP SoniClover wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:


An actual good start. The most obvious question is "LP from who"? CONCORD is the most obvious answer, if so prepare you self for HUGE cries of foul from the only other people who get CONCORD LP (Incursion Runners). You should fluff up the CONCORD LP store with some more stuff if you're gonna do this.

If not CONCORD, then who?


Sorry for not mentioning this above. The LP is from the empire navies, so it's based on what ESS was deployed.


Have you factored the time required to convert LP into ISK into your reward calculations? At least with tags you could outsource the shipping for a cut of your profit but with LP you have to fly that exact character all the way into empire and back to claim your reward.
Falkor1984
The Love Dragons
#1752 - 2014-01-21 14:20:24 UTC
Tahnil wrote:

Yeah. But on the other hand there is such a thing as an open market: prices for navy LP items may drop, which in turn may lead to more people buying fancy navy LP stuff (such as Navy Battlecruisers and Navy Battleships), which in turn may lead to higher prices again.


You didnt pay a whole lot of attention in Economics 101 class, did you?
Grarr Dexx
Blue Canary
Watch This
#1753 - 2014-01-21 14:21:08 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
Tahnil wrote:
Grarr Dexx wrote:
CCP SoniClover wrote:
War Kitten wrote:


So accessing the ESS now points you. Is it like a dictor's infinipoint, or will warp core stabs help?
Will it prevent MWD or MJD?
If you move out of range of the ESS, do you become unpointed, or are you stuck there until the timer runs out?


Regarding the warp disruption effect, we're still tweaking the effect, so it's not 100% set right now, but most likely will be similar to infinity point that does not prevent MWD or MJD.

Regarding moving out of range, this stops you interacting with the ESS (resetting the timer), so the effect stops.


So, has it been thought out what this would do to current LP valuations? Seems like this is another dildo rammed up the ass of people running level 5s, which seems to happen more and more
*Snip* Please refrain from using profanity. ISD Ezwal


Yeah. But on the other hand there is such a thing as an open market: prices for navy LP items may drop, which in turn may lead to more people buying fancy navy LP stuff (such as Navy Battlecruisers and Navy Battleships), which in turn may lead to higher prices again.


Pfrrrt what like anything but ammo is worth the LP dump anyways. (cause you know, factional warfare)
Nagarythe Tinurandir
Einheit X-6
#1754 - 2014-01-21 14:23:19 UTC
CCP SoniClover wrote:
Here's a quick update on the changes we've made to the ESS, based on testing and feedback. There is a dev blog coming out tomorrow detailing these (and other changes) to the deployables in 1.1, but here's a basic overview.

Additions/edit
* With an active ESS in system, bounties pay out LP in addition to normal ISK reward. LP reward starts at 0.15 LP per 1000 ISK and can increase to 0.2 LP per 1000 ISK as the bonus payout increases. As an example, a bounty worth 1 million ISK (total) gives between 150 and 200 LPs, based on payout level. This is to address the risk vs. reward concerns. Thanks to those that suggested using LPs instead of ISK for balance.
* There is now no timer to open the ESS window where the player gets to choose to Share or Take all, but both options now have separate timers on them. Share has 20 seconds, Take all has 180 seconds. Moving out of range while the timer is ongoing resets the timer. This is to reduce the feasibility of having an alt sit at the ESS and quickly empty the pool when someone shows up.
* Interacting with the ESS now puts a warp disruption effect on the ship interacting with it. Ships immune to bubbles are not immune to this effect. This is to reduce the feasibility of using ships immune to bubbles for stealing purposes.

Also, some of the stats have changed:
* Price lowered from 30 million to 25 million
* Hit points increased from 150k to 250k
* Volume increased from 150 to 200
* Increased minimum range from stargates/stations to 3000 km, from 300.
* Activation time increased to 120 seconds, up from 60 seconds

Some of these changes are already out on Sisi, the rest should be there soon. Thank you all for your feedback.




i still think, having a pvp-flag timer (the 5 minute one) which is not ticking down (means someone is shooting at you) should interrupt the "take all, screw you"-action and the share-action. there should be no loot as long as there are defenders actually defending and no locking away the silver plates as long as the raiders rampage in your living room.


despite that. still not a big fan of this and rather have it canned until a total revamp and group play adaption of 0.0 mPVE content
Juliette Asanari
Voodoo Children
#1755 - 2014-01-21 14:23:43 UTC
Yeep wrote:
At least with tags you could outsource the shipping for a cut of your profit but with LP you have to fly that exact character all the way into empire and back to claim your reward.


You have heard of Jumpclones?
Evelgrivion
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1756 - 2014-01-21 14:24:33 UTC
CCP SoniClover wrote:
Regarding the warp disruption effect, we're still tweaking the effect, so it's not 100% set right now, but most likely will be similar to infinity point that does not prevent MWD or MJD.

Regarding moving out of range, this stops you interacting with the ESS (resetting the timer), so the effect stops.


Will the warp disruption effect of the ESS be visually distinct from the existing warp disruption effects?
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#1757 - 2014-01-21 14:24:56 UTC
I posted this in the other thread, but thanks for taking feedback into account so quickly and turning around a new version this quickly, that couldn't have been easy and this is a huge improvement.

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Mah Boobz
Doomheim
#1758 - 2014-01-21 14:25:49 UTC
Juliette Asanari wrote:
Yeep wrote:
At least with tags you could outsource the shipping for a cut of your profit but with LP you have to fly that exact character all the way into empire and back to claim your reward.


You have heard of Jumpclones?


or pod express.
Turelus
Utassi Security
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#1759 - 2014-01-21 14:27:44 UTC
My thoughts in regards to the LP concerns.

L1-4 Missions: This isn't exactly a bad thing as the community has been asking for nerfs to HighSec ISK for a very long time, having a slight hit in the LP value makes Empire a little less of the ultimate place to make ISK.
Although as I stated in my previous post the real money from LP is currently not with any of the four Empire Navies, Factions like SoE, Thukker etc.

L5 Missions: It does harm these and it would be an idea for CCP to address L5 missions in finding a way to make them valuable again, although saying that FW LP income has already made most L5 missions not greatly viable.

More ideas on how to make the ESS great.

Is there any way CCP could allow NullSec entities to rent LP stores for their stations/outposts as well? maybe like a per month office fee to the Navy. It seems a shame that we need to fly back to Empire to cash this LP in and it would be a damn amazing update if we could buy our implants in our space.

Also being Navy LP we miss out on any chance at using the LP to gain Industry Implants, if the above was enabled it would be nice to have an LP store where we had access too all the non-FW LP items.
The only way I see this working would be for CCP to add a new corporation for each Empire (xxxx Navy Requestions Corp.?) where it would have an LP store separate from those in Empire, this would also give CCP room to set the prices of items separate from those in Empire, maybe because we're not directly in the Empire helping they would cost a little more but we would at least have access to them any time.

Turelus CEO Utassi Security
Pinky Hops
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1760 - 2014-01-21 14:28:11 UTC
Adding a third form of distribution currency doesn't alleviate any of my complaints: that it's too complicated/convoluted.

It just makes it more complex. Coupled with the fact that it puts the LP in the can and not in my wallet is a slam dunk for fail.

Why would I have my /loyalty points/ put in a can? That goes against the entire premise of LP - that they are an untradable good, and represent services rendered to a specific faction.

Pressing the "take all" button does not to me sound like a service rendered.

I still can't figure out how such an idea actually made it this far...