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SO where is the black ops buff?
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Vincent Gaines
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#41 - 2011-11-24 16:17:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Vincent Gaines
Andrea Roche wrote:

Very mature, i see.
Thats exaclty what you have to do with capitals. You got fuel in positions around for resuply.
Thats exactly what you got to do with black ops.
Black Ops are not suppose to be cost effective. There is nothing cos effective about a 1b ship.
Its about a good herass and kill and outmaneuver your opponent.

You have to get out of your safe zone into danger. You dont get to move a large fleet that easelly. Otherwise use a titan to bridge you.

So your answer to why you cannot do it too is (look mommy, daddy plays with his joystick can i play too??) NOT to use the features/posibilities/advantages availlable to you already. Instead whine or have it changed to how YOU want it.
You want zero risk, all results. NO

BE is not average= there is nothing average about black ops
this way u reduce the effort and trouble=make them op for me please


They are about 600m, fitted about the same as the average T3.

A T3 can jump via BO portal
A T3 can warp cloaked and still have better resists than a BO BS
A T3 is more agile and able to take out more targets than a BS fleet
A T3 can also be nullified making them even better killers

There is nothing a BO BS can do that a T3 can't do better. Currently a BO BS is only used to portal and nothing else. If that is the role, just make a T2 noctis hull and remove al lthe black ops from the game.

Otherwise they are worthless, useless show of bling. Why bring a redeemer when you can bridge 5 SB and recons at a fraction of the cost, same DPS, and able to warp cloaked?

Not a diplo. 

The above post was edited for spelling.
Andrea Roche
State War Academy
Caldari State
#42 - 2011-11-24 16:18:23 UTC
Zendoren wrote:
Black ops ships have the potential to give Med and small alliance/corps the fun of hot dropping with out the need of a titan.

As the ship is now, you need to fit it with cargo expanders in the lows just so you have enough fuel to jump med sized fleets which essentially gimps the armor tanking ships, like the sin.

What i would like to see with this ship is a clear defined role with the ability to use it. If its meant to be a counter to cyno jammers, give it a fuel bay so it can jump the amount of ships needed to do a raid on a cyno jammer.

If the ship is meant as a force multiplier to other black ops ships once bridged, make it so where the ship can be used in combat after it has jumped the cov ops fleet.

If its meant to complement a transport ship and used as a logistical augmenter, than increase the jump range so there is a real benefit to invest all that training time into flying the ship.

This class of ship is simply broken and needs to either be removed or refocused. period!


you lift out the other IF posibility.
If its meant to do herass/snipe? Then it does what is suppose to do. It bridges a significant amount of people. All you need is have fuel on standby in the area. Are you gonna give also add a fuel bay to recon too? How about covert ops? Come on...
Vincent Gaines
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#43 - 2011-11-24 16:22:26 UTC
Andrea Roche wrote:


you lift out the other IF posibility.
If its meant to do herass/snipe? Then it does what is suppose to do. It bridges a significant amount of people. All you need is have fuel on standby in the area. Are you gonna give also add a fuel bay to recon too? How about covert ops? Come on...






I was in DNS for a couple years. The logistics in doing black ops drops is well beyond your simple definition. You have to being fuel of every type. A fleet of 10-15 will drain the bay of the BO BS in a single bridge, you have to fill it with cargo expanders otherwise and that's ALL you can fit. If you wanted to do a sustained harassment as you call it... say several drops over the course of a few days, you need to anchor cans or have haulers continually bringing in fuel.

You have ZERO idea on what you're talking about. It is not that simple. Just stop because you're making yourself look even worse. First you use BE as an example, and now you think it's simply "having fuel on standby" without even understanding the needs.

Just stop...

Not a diplo. 

The above post was edited for spelling.
Andrea Roche
State War Academy
Caldari State
#44 - 2011-11-24 16:28:27 UTC
Vincent Gaines wrote:
Andrea Roche wrote:

Very mature, i see.
Thats exaclty what you have to do with capitals. You got fuel in positions around for resuply.
Thats exactly what you got to do with black ops.
Black Ops are not suppose to be cost effective. There is nothing cos effective about a 1b ship.
Its about a good herass and kill and outmaneuver your opponent.

You have to get out of your safe zone into danger. You dont get to move a large fleet that easelly. Otherwise use a titan to bridge you.

So your answer to why you cannot do it too is (look mommy, daddy plays with his joystick can i play too??) NOT to use the features/posibilities/advantages availlable to you already. Instead whine or have it changed to how YOU want it.
You want zero risk, all results. NO

BE is not average= there is nothing average about black ops
this way u reduce the effort and trouble=make them op for me please


They are about 600m, fitted about the same as the average T3.

A T3 can jump via BO portal
A T3 can warp cloaked and still have better resists than a BO BS
A T3 is more agile and able to take out more targets than a BS fleet
A T3 can also be nullified making them even better killers

There is nothing a BO BS can do that a T3 can't do better. Currently a BO BS is only used to portal and nothing else. If that is the role, just make a T2 noctis hull and remove al lthe black ops from the game.

Otherwise they are worthless, useless show of bling. Why bring a redeemer when you can bridge 5 SB and recons at a fraction of the cost, same DPS, and able to warp cloaked?



BO does far more than use portal. I am sure BE will tell you that.
BO is a logistic ship that can do snipping/herass. Its very well rounded ship.
T3 cannot do portal something that BO can do very well.

Andrea Roche
State War Academy
Caldari State
#45 - 2011-11-24 16:32:25 UTC
Vincent Gaines wrote:
Andrea Roche wrote:


you lift out the other IF posibility.
If its meant to do herass/snipe? Then it does what is suppose to do. It bridges a significant amount of people. All you need is have fuel on standby in the area. Are you gonna give also add a fuel bay to recon too? How about covert ops? Come on...






I was in DNS for a couple years. The logistics in doing black ops drops is well beyond your simple definition. You have to being fuel of every type. A fleet of 10-15 will drain the bay of the BO BS in a single bridge, you have to fill it with cargo expanders otherwise and that's ALL you can fit. If you wanted to do a sustained harassment as you call it... say several drops over the course of a few days, you need to anchor cans or have haulers continually bringing in fuel.

You have ZERO idea on what you're talking about. It is not that simple. Just stop because you're making yourself look even worse. First you use BE as an example, and now you think it's simply "having fuel on standby" without even understanding the needs.

Just stop...



yes anchor cans, a resuply chain. Just like with capitals and fuel requirements having them at station or POS. Nothing new here. I still dont see how you cannot do it and BE can?
Vincent Gaines
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#46 - 2011-11-24 16:52:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Vincent Gaines
Andrea Roche wrote:


BO does far more than use portal. I am sure BE will tell you that.
BO is a logistic ship that can do snipping/herass. Its very well rounded ship.
T3 cannot do portal something that BO can do very well.




You don't have a damn clue what you're talking about. The redeemer is a decent ship but the ONLY one. BE also uses billion ISK fittings, including on their nightmares or machs. They also have much more going on behind the scenes than a roaming gang of Redeemers. You are truely simple minded.

By the way, DNS ganked BE's black ops gang... with stealth bombers. BE do well because of the tactics they use, not the ships. But you don't know that. You're in an NPC corp. You have no idea how they operate jsut what others have told you. You don't know about offgrid boosting, the neutral alts used in conjunction... jesus why am I even trying to answer this.


Andrea Roche wrote:


yes anchor cans, a resuply chain. Just like with capitals and fuel requirements having them at station or POS. Nothing new here. I still dont see how you cannot do it and BE can?




You're goddamn stupid, plain and simple.

Not a diplo. 

The above post was edited for spelling.
Andrea Roche
State War Academy
Caldari State
#47 - 2011-11-24 17:06:17 UTC
Vincent Gaines wrote:
Andrea Roche wrote:


BO does far more than use portal. I am sure BE will tell you that.
BO is a logistic ship that can do snipping/herass. Its very well rounded ship.
T3 cannot do portal something that BO can do very well.




You don't have a damn clue what you're talking about. The redeemer is a decent ship but the ONLY one. BE also uses billion ISK fittings, including on their nightmares or machs. They also have much more going on behind the scenes than a roaming gang of Redeemers. You are truely simple minded.

By the way, DNS ganked BE's black ops gang... with stealth bombers. BE do well because of the tactics they use, not the ships. But you don't know that. You're in an NPC corp. You have no idea how they operate jsut what others have told you. You don't know about offgrid boosting, the neutral alts used in conjunction... jesus why am I even trying to answer this.


Andrea Roche wrote:


yes anchor cans, a resuply chain. Just like with capitals and fuel requirements having them at station or POS. Nothing new here. I still dont see how you cannot do it and BE can?




You're goddamn stupid, plain and simple.


ROFL They dont use just redeemers. Have also you others aswell. You may have not seen it but doesnt mean they dont. I hav seen them using others.
DNS are BE, toe nails, everybody knows that.
Still ignore the question......If be can, why cant you???????????????
Vincent Gaines
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#48 - 2011-11-24 17:22:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Vincent Gaines
Andrea Roche wrote:

ROFL They dont use just redeemers. Have also you others aswell. You may have not seen it but doesnt mean they dont. I hav seen them using others.
DNS are BE, toe nails, everybody knows that.
Still ignore the question......If be can, why cant you???????????????



You realize I was in DNS, right? DNS is not BE you mongoloid.


They CAN be used. They are pigs. filled with cargo expanders and used to bridge fleets. Sure, you can use them in PVP but they will die, even to a T1 version of themselves. The Redeemer is the least of the broken, in that it can almost do an effective job.

But then ask, why is the Widow, Sin, and Panther ignored?

And why don't YOU fly them? Of wait, you are talking out of your ass. Do you even own a black ops, let alone flown with a black ops fleet?

Not a diplo. 

The above post was edited for spelling.
Andrea Roche
State War Academy
Caldari State
#49 - 2011-11-24 17:48:35 UTC
Vincent Gaines wrote:
Andrea Roche wrote:

ROFL They dont use just redeemers. Have also you others aswell. You may have not seen it but doesnt mean they dont. I hav seen them using others.
DNS are BE, toe nails, everybody knows that.
Still ignore the question......If be can, why cant you???????????????



You realize I was in DNS, right? DNS is not BE you mongoloid.


They CAN be used. They are pigs. filled with cargo expanders and used to bridge fleets. Sure, you can use them in PVP but they will die, even to a T1 version of themselves. The Redeemer is the least of the broken, in that it can almost do an effective job.

But then ask, why is the Widow, Sin, and Panther ignored?

And why don't YOU fly them? Of wait, you are talking out of your ass. Do you even own a black ops, let alone flown with a black ops fleet?


What part of english you dont understand?
i just told you that widow sin and panther are not ignored. I have been jumped by BE with those ships before.
I do own a redeemer. Your line below is a classic example how much of a noob you are in blackops.
"If the ship is supposed to jump to a hostile POS and take out the jammer, it should be able to tank the freaking POS guns."

ROFL
Vincent Gaines
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#50 - 2011-11-24 18:35:54 UTC
Andrea Roche wrote:


What part of english you dont understand?
i just told you that widow sin and panther are not ignored. I have been jumped by BE with those ships before.
I do own a redeemer. Your line below is a classic example how much of a noob you are in blackops.
"If the ship is supposed to jump to a hostile POS and take out the jammer, it should be able to tank the freaking POS guns."

ROFL



I understand your lack of comprehension.

BO were originally intended to use covert cyno fields and take down a jammer in addition to harassment "behind enemy lines."

Funny, I can't find Andrea Roche on any killboard. You can't even post with your main, so I'm calling your bluff.

Go ahead and tell yourself how black ops BS are just fine, especially when last check there were less than 500 of them in people's hangers (last official count was ~250 but I'm rounding up with optimistic thinking).

Not a diplo. 

The above post was edited for spelling.
Andrea Roche
State War Academy
Caldari State
#51 - 2011-11-24 18:44:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Andrea Roche
Vincent Gaines wrote:
Andrea Roche wrote:


What part of english you dont understand?
i just told you that widow sin and panther are not ignored. I have been jumped by BE with those ships before.
I do own a redeemer. Your line below is a classic example how much of a noob you are in blackops.
"If the ship is supposed to jump to a hostile POS and take out the jammer, it should be able to tank the freaking POS guns."

ROFL



I understand your lack of comprehension.

BO were originally intended to use covert cyno fields and take down a jammer in addition to harassment "behind enemy lines."

Funny, I can't find Andrea Roche on any killboard. You can't even post with your main, so I'm calling your bluff.

Go ahead and tell yourself how black ops BS are just fine, especially when last check there were less than 500 of them in people's hangers (last official count was ~250 but I'm rounding up with optimistic thinking).


XD
Its an alt.

My god, the stories you tell. BOs are suppose to be used to take out POS and now against Jammers too? facepalm
Keeps me laughing at you XD
Jack Sparroxx
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2011-11-24 20:07:52 UTC
Andrea Roche wrote:
Vincent Gaines wrote:
Andrea Roche wrote:


What part of english you dont understand?
i just told you that widow sin and panther are not ignored. I have been jumped by BE with those ships before.
I do own a redeemer. Your line below is a classic example how much of a noob you are in blackops.
"If the ship is supposed to jump to a hostile POS and take out the jammer, it should be able to tank the freaking POS guns."

ROFL



I understand your lack of comprehension.

BO were originally intended to use covert cyno fields and take down a jammer in addition to harassment "behind enemy lines."

Funny, I can't find Andrea Roche on any killboard. You can't even post with your main, so I'm calling your bluff.

Go ahead and tell yourself how black ops BS are just fine, especially when last check there were less than 500 of them in people's hangers (last official count was ~250 but I'm rounding up with optimistic thinking).


XD
Its an alt.

My god, the stories you tell. BOs are suppose to be used to take out POS and now against Jammers too? facepalm
Keeps me laughing at you XD



Well. Since you are so sure Black ops are fine as they are, how about you come up with some exsamples of where YOU have used black ops to great effect including some killbord battlr reports and such, instead of using an alt to argue your point and using a burden enden as pretty much then only corp you can come up with using black ops with success.

And I think most., and in particular those that have been their victims, can agree on that Burn eden is not you every day typical averange greifer corp.

So how about it.. proof your points with your own experinces instead of pretending that you are the cool allknowing black ops pilot.
Andrea Roche
State War Academy
Caldari State
#53 - 2011-11-24 20:56:11 UTC
Jack Sparroxx wrote:
Andrea Roche wrote:
Vincent Gaines wrote:
Andrea Roche wrote:


What part of english you dont understand?
i just told you that widow sin and panther are not ignored. I have been jumped by BE with those ships before.
I do own a redeemer. Your line below is a classic example how much of a noob you are in blackops.
"If the ship is supposed to jump to a hostile POS and take out the jammer, it should be able to tank the freaking POS guns."

ROFL



I understand your lack of comprehension.

BO were originally intended to use covert cyno fields and take down a jammer in addition to harassment "behind enemy lines."

Funny, I can't find Andrea Roche on any killboard. You can't even post with your main, so I'm calling your bluff.

Go ahead and tell yourself how black ops BS are just fine, especially when last check there were less than 500 of them in people's hangers (last official count was ~250 but I'm rounding up with optimistic thinking).


XD
Its an alt.

My god, the stories you tell. BOs are suppose to be used to take out POS and now against Jammers too? facepalm
Keeps me laughing at you XD



Well. Since you are so sure Black ops are fine as they are, how about you come up with some exsamples of where YOU have used black ops to great effect including some killbord battlr reports and such, instead of using an alt to argue your point and using a burden enden as pretty much then only corp you can come up with using black ops with success.

And I think most., and in particular those that have been their victims, can agree on that Burn eden is not you every day typical averange greifer corp.

So how about it.. proof your points with your own experinces instead of pretending that you are the cool allknowing black ops pilot.


Unforgiving.
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=11449878
cva
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=8876616
DNS
Blind Octopus
Stain Empire
and many more

There are plenty more. Some have stopped doing it and some others no longer exist/cant find them.
All very successfull at it too.

I am not telling you who am I. So you are gonna have to live with it.

These is proof that ALL these ships are not only used BUT also are a valid and effective way of playing the game. Therefore they dont need a buff. They rarelly get killed anyway.

goodnight gl hf
Hemmo Paskiainen
#54 - 2011-11-24 21:41:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Hemmo Paskiainen
Andrea Roche wrote:

Unforgiving.
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=11449878
cva
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=8876616
DNS
Blind Octopus
Stain Empire
and many more

There are plenty more. Some have stopped doing it and some others no longer exist/cant find them.
All very successfull at it too.

I am not telling you who am I. So you are gonna have to live with it.

These is proof that ALL these ships are not only used BUT also are a valid and effective way of playing the game. Therefore they dont need a buff. They rarelly get killed anyway.

goodnight gl hf


http://imageshack.us/f/444/bothingy.jpg/

the math on that 30 cva drop. With 2 haulers they have enough fuel to do 8 bridges. Fill in how u like but thats only 8 kills oppertunities max. Im not couninting jumping back or whatever its pure 8 single 4.5ly jumps.

takes hours of planning setting up, caculating fuel, getting target ect. Not worth the effort.

If relativity equals time plus momentum, what equals relativity, if the momentum is minus to the time?
ovenproofjet
Gallifrey Industries
#55 - 2011-11-24 21:50:25 UTC
We're doing just fine with our Black Ops fleets bro
Shang Fei
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#56 - 2011-11-24 21:55:57 UTC
y u no buff my black ops?

srsly tho they're kinda kickass, wouldn't mind a range buff tho :)
Warlord Shat
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#57 - 2011-11-24 21:58:02 UTC
Y U NO GIVE T3 Covert CYNO ლ(ಠ益ಠლ)
SMT008
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#58 - 2011-11-24 22:05:37 UTC
Andrea Roche wrote:

Unforgiving.
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=11449878
cva
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=8876616
DNS
Blind Octopus
Stain Empire
and many more

There are plenty more. Some have stopped doing it and some others no longer exist/cant find them.
All very successfull at it too.

I am not telling you who am I. So you are gonna have to live with it.

These is proof that ALL these ships are not only used BUT also are a valid and effective way of playing the game. Therefore they dont need a buff. They rarelly get killed anyway.

goodnight gl hf


I'm sorry but....you're ********.

Not that I like Morsus Mihi or Vincent himself, but look at you.

You're linking two battlereports.

6 Blackops and a Rapier taking down a PVE Nightmare.

30 BO fleet (With 12 blackops, 4 recons, a T3 and bombers) taking down a Cynabal, a RailDeimos, an Arazu and a Devoter.

I could have killed the Nightmare with a bomber.

I could have killed the second fleet with my Tempest.

How is that a proof of the fact that black ops works ? No they don't. For the 600M they cost and all the skills they require, they are bad. They barely jump next door, they are paperthin (Literally, check their Shield/armor/structure HP in game), they have a good DPS (Like all battleships, I would say), they have LOLBonuses (The Redeemer gets a tracking bonus, which is good. The Sin gets an agility bonus ?), they can't bridge properly a few recons, they need multiple fuel caches or dualboxing a viator...

I'm sorry, but those ships doesn't work like they are supposed to.

Fix :

Split back ops in two categories.

First category, support blackops. Enhanced jumprange (5 LY Base), enhanced fuel bay (Or less fuel consumption /ship/lightyear), practically no DPS.

Second, combat blackops. Actual jumprange, actual fuel bay, T2 resistances, same shield/armor/HP as the tier 3 BS, same DPS as of now (More turret/missile based DPS, less drone DPS). Less sucky bonuses (Like, a Neutralizer duration/Capacitor use on the Redeemer, a falloff bonus on the Panther maybe, a Warp disruptor range bonus on the Sin ?)

Support blackops keep their current model/skin.

Combat blackops get the tier 3 BS model and the skin that goes with it.

Imagine the paintjob of the Widow, on a Rokh.
Wacktopia
Fleet-Up.com
Keep It Simple Software Group
#59 - 2011-11-24 22:06:18 UTC
I think they got a new skin.... :-$

Kitchen sink? Seriousy, get your ship together -  Fleet-Up.com
saltrock0000
State War Academy
Caldari State
#60 - 2011-11-24 22:17:38 UTC
Cmon CCP, dont start this whole ignore tricky issues BS again. When your trying to rebuild customer relations its the worst thing you can do. 99% of people would respect you far more if you just said "the black ops fix has been moved down the priority list but is still happening" or not as the case may be. But honesty and not just ignoring is the way to go with this.

\'''\<(o_O)>/'''/