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Why Null sec population is stagnant...OPINION

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Josef Djugashvilis
#21 - 2014-01-19 20:21:44 UTC
Viviseciant wrote:
AWOXing. Eve is a game that encourages mistrust. Very devastating when succesful and used alot in null politics. So null sec recruiters want full api with your application. . LOL. If you're new or poor it's np. Funny thing, imo, is only the truly stupid will be caught that way. Gives a false sense of security at best I would think and discourages established carebears from making the switch.

I think this and nonconsensual pvp in high sec are also the driving force in fewer newbs sticking around after a few bad experiences. I have quit and started playing a few times. Every time I come back to the stagnation of eve.
The good new for evies is the dedicated fan bois keep it chugging along.

This is not a cry to change anything. Eve is what it is. Kind of a paradoxical balancing act for CCP and I think they do as well as possible considering what I think they are striving for.


I do not like to see anyone quit Eve, but if non-consensual attacks on folk in hi-sec are a game breaker for you, well, enjoy whatever game you move on to.

This is not a signature.
Roel Yento
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2014-01-19 20:26:18 UTC
Viviseciant wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Viviseciant wrote:
Tippia wrote:
What makes you say that it's stagnant?

http://evenews24.com/2014/01/10/jesters-trek-another-way-of-saying-never/

…which doesn't mention nullsec population. Ugh

No growth in 5 yrs? So you disagree with the article? Increasing subs would hurt or help iyo? More subs would mean better resources going into the game. But some of that population boost should be in null and low shouldn't it?. Just cramming more peeps into mid and high sec is not really the best thing i think. Getting into a null corp is really the only way most people can live there. Because of trust issues full api needed. I understand why. Cant really blame em either. Eve is a harsh world. For me I would rather quit again than give anyone my jugular. And tell me i can give full api to corps with no worries. Lol. Yep. Safe as undocking from Jita 4\4 with 1.05 bil in the belly of that freighter.
Without growth all it takes is another CCP game to take off and then i wonder how many resources will they sink into eve if there is a cash cow mooing at them? Maybe...maybe not. I brought up null because that is supposed to be the end game isn't it? Sov me some more. All I read is its broken. High sec is boring. Moving to null might be just as boring...mining is mining is mindless.


Considering there is no end to the game other than offlining servers, sov null is no more endgame than being proficient at anything else you do in the game. Nothing wrong with giving api to corp you are joining. Not like you have to undock with your loaded freighter the moment you meet them. Also if you quit corp, delete the api.
Viviseciant
Doomheim
#23 - 2014-01-19 20:29:16 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
Viviseciant wrote:
AWOXing. Eve is a game that encourages mistrust. Very devastating when succesful and used alot in null politics. So null sec recruiters want full api with your application. . LOL. If you're new or poor it's np. Funny thing, imo, is only the truly stupid will be caught that way. Gives a false sense of security at best I would think and discourages established carebears from making the switch.

I think this and nonconsensual pvp in high sec are also the driving force in fewer newbs sticking around after a few bad experiences. I have quit and started playing a few times. Every time I come back to the stagnation of eve.
The good new for evies is the dedicated fan bois keep it chugging along.

This is not a cry to change anything. Eve is what it is. Kind of a paradoxical balancing act for CCP and I think they do as well as possible considering what I think they are striving for.


I do not like to see anyone quit Eve, but if non-consensual attacks on folk in hi-sec are a game breaker for you, well, enjoy whatever game you move on to.


You should reread the post. I am saying new people. I been here on and off since 2006? If nonconsensual pvp was a breaker for me I would have quit in 2007. For good.
Viviseciant
Doomheim
#24 - 2014-01-19 20:31:42 UTC
Rolled in 2008. I knew it was a fat bottom number.
Viviseciant
Doomheim
#25 - 2014-01-19 20:34:20 UTC
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
Proletariat Tingtango wrote:
you have to understand that trying to be 'elite' will get you nowhere, that niche has been filled.


Hmmm, y'know that sounds kind of like... oh what's the word I'm looking for?

Stagnation, yeah that was it.

Lol. Love your tagline. Belly laughed.
Dyphorus
Inritus Astrum
#26 - 2014-01-19 21:00:02 UTC
Of the time I've lived in 0.0, awoxing was barely even a concern. If you're in a strong corp that actually vets its member rather that accepting anyone that applies, it's not common. If you're in a renter corp full of null-bears that will take anyone that pays 50 mil a month to be there...


In my experience the one thing that really keeps people from leaving high sec is their aversion to any sort of risk. Like it or not, the majority of full time high-sec players are there because that where they want to be. They don't want to PvP, they don't want to have any chance of loosing something. They are high sec loving carebears because that's exactly what they want to be.
Erotica 1
Krypteia Operations
#27 - 2014-01-19 21:05:22 UTC
Roel Yento wrote:
The game promotes judgment and decision making. It promotes finding people you can trust and working with them. The game also promotes overcoming obsticles and knowing sometimes you will fail. Whether you quit or not is based on if you like a game that challenges you in these ways and work through your failures or you quit because the game was too hard for you.

Awoxing happens, spies happen, corp theifs happen. There are ways to mitigate your chances of this happening. Choosing the right people to associate with is what helps mitigate the severity of these actions. You wont truly know how far you can trust someone until you are at risk of them taking advantage of you.

I have been awoxed once and never stolen from. I have had billions of assets open to other people who could steal from me or i could steal from them yet it hasn't happened.... yet. It could happen any time I know but what is the point of playing a game and never taking any risks?


I agree with you, and it is good to find people you can trust to fly with. I look forward to joining your corp with an alt.

See Bio for isk doubling rules. If you didn't read bio, chances are you funded those who did.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#28 - 2014-01-19 21:10:03 UTC
Viviseciant wrote:
Tippia wrote:
What makes you say that it's stagnant?


http://evenews24.com/2014/01/10/jesters-trek-another-way-of-saying-never/

Why does anybody pay attention to this guy?
In fact how did he get elected to CSM in the first place?

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#29 - 2014-01-19 21:30:14 UTC  |  Edited by: PotatoOverdose
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Viviseciant wrote:
Tippia wrote:
What makes you say that it's stagnant?


http://evenews24.com/2014/01/10/jesters-trek-another-way-of-saying-never/

Why does anybody pay attention to this guy?
In fact how did he get elected to CSM in the first place?

He's not wrong though. Eve population, as a whole, has been stagnant for quite some time. Can you point to any specific source that article or this one uses which is in error?

You know, post something constructive that adds to the discussion, instead of just slinging poo at the other guy like a monkey in a tree.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#30 - 2014-01-19 21:46:48 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Viviseciant wrote:
Tippia wrote:
What makes you say that it's stagnant?


http://evenews24.com/2014/01/10/jesters-trek-another-way-of-saying-never/

Why does anybody pay attention to this guy?
In fact how did he get elected to CSM in the first place?

He's not wrong though. Eve population, as a whole, has been stagnant for quite some time. Can you point to any specific source that article or this one uses which is in error?

You know, post something constructive that adds to the discussion, instead of just slinging poo at the other guy like a monkey in a tree.

He offers no solutions and no meaningful analysis besides some numbers and "most people decide they don't like EVE" and "you all don't want EVE to grow". I've seen other posts of his about this which amount to pretty much the same thing.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#31 - 2014-01-19 21:55:29 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:

He offers no solutions and no meaningful analysis besides some numbers and "most people decide they don't like EVE" and "you all don't want EVE to grow". I've seen other posts of his about this which amount to pretty much the same thing.

Sure, but the person you quoted directly responded to a question:
Viviseciant wrote:
Tippia wrote:
What makes you say that it's stagnant?


http://evenews24.com/2014/01/10/jesters-trek-another-way-of-saying-never/

The article in question does in fact support that position with data. You are correct, no one proposed a solution. But in the above discussion, no one asked for a solution either, they asked for a confirmation of the problem.

In that context, I don't understand why you'd attack the article? It states the problem, and supports it with data and references, which is exactly what was required.
Roel Yento
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2014-01-19 21:55:44 UTC
Erotica 1 wrote:
Roel Yento wrote:
The game promotes judgment and decision making. It promotes finding people you can trust and working with them. The game also promotes overcoming obsticles and knowing sometimes you will fail. Whether you quit or not is based on if you like a game that challenges you in these ways and work through your failures or you quit because the game was too hard for you.

Awoxing happens, spies happen, corp theifs happen. There are ways to mitigate your chances of this happening. Choosing the right people to associate with is what helps mitigate the severity of these actions. You wont truly know how far you can trust someone until you are at risk of them taking advantage of you.

I have been awoxed once and never stolen from. I have had billions of assets open to other people who could steal from me or i could steal from them yet it hasn't happened.... yet. It could happen any time I know but what is the point of playing a game and never taking any risks?


I agree with you, and it is good to find people you can trust to fly with. I look forward to joining your corp with an alt.


Lol best of luck.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#33 - 2014-01-19 21:59:29 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:

He offers no solutions and no meaningful analysis besides some numbers and "most people decide they don't like EVE" and "you all don't want EVE to grow". I've seen other posts of his about this which amount to pretty much the same thing.

Sure, but the person you quoted directly responded to a question:
Viviseciant wrote:
Tippia wrote:
What makes you say that it's stagnant?


http://evenews24.com/2014/01/10/jesters-trek-another-way-of-saying-never/

The article in question does in fact support that position with data. You are correct, no one proposed a solution. But in the above discussion, no one asked for a solution either, they asked for a confirmation of the problem.

Point taken.

PotatoOverdose wrote:
In that context, I don't understand why you'd attack the article? It states the problem, and supports it with data and references, which is exactly what was required.

Well it's not really some great mystery, since the second link you gave also provided an analysis (not to mention suggested some solutions), and linked to numerous other posts also discussing the same issue. He's not on the CSM to tell us what we already know.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#34 - 2014-01-19 22:03:38 UTC
Roel Yento wrote:
Erotica 1 wrote:
Roel Yento wrote:
The game promotes judgment and decision making. It promotes finding people you can trust and working with them. The game also promotes overcoming obsticles and knowing sometimes you will fail. Whether you quit or not is based on if you like a game that challenges you in these ways and work through your failures or you quit because the game was too hard for you.

Awoxing happens, spies happen, corp theifs happen. There are ways to mitigate your chances of this happening. Choosing the right people to associate with is what helps mitigate the severity of these actions. You wont truly know how far you can trust someone until you are at risk of them taking advantage of you.

I have been awoxed once and never stolen from. I have had billions of assets open to other people who could steal from me or i could steal from them yet it hasn't happened.... yet. It could happen any time I know but what is the point of playing a game and never taking any risks?


I agree with you, and it is good to find people you can trust to fly with. I look forward to joining your corp with an alt.


Lol best of luck.

I seriously suggest you don't take this guy.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
PotatoOverdose
Handsome Millionaire Playboys
Sedition.
#35 - 2014-01-19 22:08:56 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:

Well it's not really some great mystery, since the second link you gave also provided an analysis (not to mention suggested some solutions), and linked to numerous other posts also discussing the same issue. He's not on the CSM to tell us what we already know.

Fair enough, but he could be on the CSM because there exists a section of the playerbase that shares his views. And that by elaborating on his views, it improves the understanding between candidate and constituent.

Or w/e, I have no particular feelings toward that author one way or another.
Roel Yento
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#36 - 2014-01-19 22:11:40 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Roel Yento wrote:
Erotica 1 wrote:
Roel Yento wrote:
The game promotes judgment and decision making. It promotes finding people you can trust and working with them. The game also promotes overcoming obsticles and knowing sometimes you will fail. Whether you quit or not is based on if you like a game that challenges you in these ways and work through your failures or you quit because the game was too hard for you.

Awoxing happens, spies happen, corp theifs happen. There are ways to mitigate your chances of this happening. Choosing the right people to associate with is what helps mitigate the severity of these actions. You wont truly know how far you can trust someone until you are at risk of them taking advantage of you.

I have been awoxed once and never stolen from. I have had billions of assets open to other people who could steal from me or i could steal from them yet it hasn't happened.... yet. It could happen any time I know but what is the point of playing a game and never taking any risks?


I agree with you, and it is good to find people you can trust to fly with. I look forward to joining your corp with an alt.


Lol best of luck.

I seriously suggest you don't take this guy.


I know, that is why i lol'd
Proletariat Tingtango
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#37 - 2014-01-19 22:15:09 UTC
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
Proletariat Tingtango wrote:
you have to understand that trying to be 'elite' will get you nowhere, that niche has been filled.


Hmmm, y'know that sounds kind of like... oh what's the word I'm looking for?

Stagnation, yeah that was it.


Do you know how niches and role-filling works?

When there's a void, something tends to fill it. Alliances. Successful alliances at that, have attracted the kind of crowd who stroke boners over their green killboard. It works like a vacuum at first, and then once the niche has some mass, gravity comes into effect, everyone who wants to be elite gravitates towards the groups already established as elite.

You're basically complaining that you're not good enough to be a part of that kind of play, or you're complaining that you're not creative enough to carve out your own niche in the nullsec metagame. Sorry about that, but the only stagnant thing here is your mind.
Malcolm Shinhwa
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2014-01-19 22:22:19 UTC
I solved the awox problem once and for all. I invited a known awoxer to my corp and made her a director. Every day I login and the POS is still where I left it is a good day. Almost 4 months and I'm billions richer. She must be working the long con.

[i]"The purpose of fighting is to win. There is no possible victory in defense. The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either. The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental[/i]."
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2014-01-19 22:59:27 UTC
Everyone said come to Null.

So we all got interceptors and did just that and had great fun for a while.

But instead of being pleased we were finally coming to null and doing "proper PvP" the null alliances complained to CCP about it and got our interceptors nerfed as of next patch :D

You just cannot keep some people happy.
Proletariat Tingtango
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#40 - 2014-01-19 23:02:53 UTC
Hasikan Miallok wrote:
Everyone said come to Null.

So we all got interceptors and did just that and had great fun for a while.

But instead of being pleased we were finally coming to null and doing "proper PvP" the null alliances complained to CCP about it and got our interceptors nerfed as of next patch :D

You just cannot keep some people happy.


The core problem we've been trying to rid you silly pubbies of is 'risk aversion' which the interceptor changes did nothing to address. There's no risk when you can align and warp anywhere before the node can even register the fact that someone at a gate camp tried to lock you.
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