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Warfare & Tactics

 
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FW changes id like

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Shelom Severasse
Legion Ascending
Fraternity.
#1 - 2014-01-18 06:59:34 UTC
cloaks and warp stabs no longer work while within 30km of a FW complex.
that way the farming ship is easier to catch and will help force a pvp engagement.

why? i am irritated at how easy it is to farm and yet it is near impossible to actually catch farmers. plain and simple.

the lore bit behind this could be that in order to preserve your affiliated factions honor, they do not allow cloaks and warp stabs to work while within 30km of an offensive or defensive plex which is the maximum distance allowed to capture a plex.

or something like that idk

am i any sort of authority in fw? no
do i expect any of these changes? na
but i can dream :D
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2014-01-18 08:05:45 UTC
Shelom Severasse wrote:
cloaks and warp stabs no longer work while within 30km of a FW complex.
that way the farming ship is easier to catch and will help force a pvp engagement.

why? i am irritated at how easy it is to farm and yet it is near impossible to actually catch farmers. plain and simple.

the lore bit behind this could be that in order to preserve your affiliated factions honor, they do not allow cloaks and warp stabs to work while within 30km of an offensive or defensive plex which is the maximum distance allowed to capture a plex.

or something like that idk

am i any sort of authority in fw? no
do i expect any of these changes? na
but i can dream :D

so, rewrite the lore so that all of a sudden every race respects bushido/traditional military doctrine, instead of good old irishstreet warfare?

yeah, no.


would rather see anyone who enters a FW plex be flagged for combat on site though, get tired of getting a sec status hit for shooting someone who warps into what is clearly marked as a military engagement zone.
Iudicium Vastus
Doomheim
#3 - 2014-01-18 08:23:52 UTC
Catch them by fitting more points. Easy.
But I do agree with what's stated above, there's nothing to gain at all for a neutral in a military zone and should be flagged for combat upon entry.

[u]Nerf stabs/cloaks in FW?[/u] No, just.. -Fit more points -Fit faction points -Bring a friend or two with points (an alt is fine too)
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#4 - 2014-01-18 09:54:12 UTC
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
would rather see anyone who enters a FW plex be flagged for combat on site though, get tired of getting a sec status hit for shooting someone who warps into what is clearly marked as a military engagement zone.


Go for it. That'll just make the FW types warp out even quicker.

As a neutral who fights in FW space, I get far more fights from other neuts than I get from FW pilots.

So poor you that others don't play in the sandbox in a way that suits you. Either shoot or run, and deal with the consequences of doing so. Complaining about your sec status though is good tears. Moar pleez.
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#5 - 2014-01-18 17:04:21 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
would rather see anyone who enters a FW plex be flagged for combat on site though, get tired of getting a sec status hit for shooting someone who warps into what is clearly marked as a military engagement zone.


Go for it. That'll just make the FW types warp out even quicker.

As a neutral who fights in FW space, I get far more fights from other neuts than I get from FW pilots.

So poor you that others don't play in the sandbox in a way that suits you. Either shoot or run, and deal with the consequences of doing so. Complaining about your sec status though is good tears. Moar pleez.

not whining, just sayign its a bit silly. thats like running down the streets of baghdad with an AK and someone getting in trouble for shooting you because you didnt shoot first. its a warzone, if someone is there with a gun, they are either on your side or against you, and should be dealt with as such.

and i only voice it, because a majority fo the combat ANYONE in FW actually gets on a daily basis tends to be with neuts, and i know alot of more casual pvp'ers who dont want to do FW simply because they wont be fighting the other militia most of the time, and they dont want to lose sec because of there mining/missioning/whatever.
ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#6 - 2014-01-18 17:26:12 UTC
This thread has been moved to Warfare & Tactics.

ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)
Shelom Severasse
Legion Ascending
Fraternity.
#7 - 2014-01-18 19:47:57 UTC
[would rather see anyone who enters a FW plex be flagged for combat on site though, get tired of getting a sec status hit for shooting someone who warps into what is clearly marked as a military engagement zone.[/quote]

definitely agree with this. or maybe just no sec status hit for shooting a neutral inside a FW plex
Castnicke Rinah
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#8 - 2014-01-18 22:40:29 UTC
Iudicium Vastus wrote:
Catch them by fitting more points. Easy.
But I do agree with what's stated above, there's nothing to gain at all for a neutral in a military zone and should be flagged for combat upon entry.


Put more points and lose the next fight against the guy who isn't stabbed. Great plan Einstein.
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#9 - 2014-01-19 02:38:18 UTC
timer resets and cloaks or stabs don't matter anymore. Those mods are not the problem, only a symptom for the fact that fighting in a plex is inefficient. Change it and make running inefficient and FW is fixed.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Bad Messenger
Rehabilitation Clinic
#10 - 2014-01-19 12:11:08 UTC
no
Hesod Adee
Perkone
Caldari State
#11 - 2014-01-19 20:44:08 UTC
If the farmer is paying attention on Dscan, they can easily get out before you warp into the plex. So cloaks and stabs don't mean anything.
IbanezLaney
The Church of Awesome
#12 - 2014-01-19 21:34:33 UTC
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
instead of good old irishstreet warfare?




Potato fight?

https://soundcloud.com/ibanezlaney
Shadow Adanza
Gold Crest Salvage
#13 - 2014-01-19 21:54:30 UTC
I like that neutrals aren't flagged upon entry. I'm trying to get to full -10 here and that would put a serious damper on my efforts.

As for the stabs/cloaks/whatever. Use your mind. You have to be smarter than your target. Come up with a way to kill him and test your wits/determination against his.

Are you suggesting coconuts migrate?
Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights
#14 - 2014-01-20 14:55:25 UTC
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
[

would rather see anyone who enters a FW plex be flagged for combat on site though, get tired of getting a sec status hit for shooting someone who warps into what is clearly marked as a military engagement zone.


That's actually a pretty great idea.
X Gallentius
Black Eagle1
#15 - 2014-01-20 15:26:50 UTC  |  Edited by: X Gallentius
I think at this point in time either:
1. CCP has put FW at the absolute bottom of its list, or
2. The isk sink from using FW LP is critical to keeping the money supply stable. They can't do anything to reduce it without destroying the faucet/sink balance- including making reasonable changes to the FW plexing mechanics.
Stalence
Caldari Colonial Defense Ministry
Templis CALSF
#16 - 2014-01-20 17:02:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Stalence
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
would rather see anyone who enters a FW plex be flagged for combat on site though, get tired of getting a sec status hit for shooting someone who warps into what is clearly marked as a military engagement zone.


Go for it. That'll just make the FW types warp out even quicker.

As a neutral who fights in FW space, I get far more fights from other neuts than I get from FW pilots.

So poor you that others don't play in the sandbox in a way that suits you. Either shoot or run, and deal with the consequences of doing so. Complaining about your sec status though is good tears. Moar pleez.


Would love to hear about our FW Cruiser gang being too afraid to engage your neutral Cruiser gang holed up inside a medium plex... http://ccdm.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=21474881

Member of #tweetfleet @stalence // Templis CALSF // YouTube Channel
RavenPaine
RaVeN Alliance
#17 - 2014-01-20 19:04:28 UTC
So, what your saying is,
You fit for full PvP, then you go hunting farmers in non-PvP fits.
And you can't kill them...
Scylus Black
Caldari Black Hand
Caldari Tactical Operations Command
#18 - 2014-01-30 23:12:55 UTC
X Gallentius wrote:
I think at this point in time either:
1. CCP has put FW at the absolute bottom of its list, or
2. The isk sink from using FW LP is critical to keeping the money supply stable. They can't do anything to reduce it without destroying the faucet/sink balance- including making reasonable changes to the FW plexing mechanics.


I would hate to speculate on this.

All I know... FW is Dead.

It's nothing more than a medium for PVP. Which I happen to love. However the repetition of plexing, flipping, repeat is horrible... They need to make it more enticing and worthwhile. I see many pilots get in the mix and as soon as they get the PVP mechanics down. They leave for other ventures in EVE. Faction Warfare needs an overhaul that retains the challenges of PVP (which I believe FW has the best of) with improved game mechanics to make it worth doing. Time and again.

Scylus Black - CSM XII Candidate

Former Executor Templis CALSF Alliance

Templis CALSF WHQ // YouTube Channel
chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
Of Essence
#19 - 2014-01-31 04:59:18 UTC
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
Shelom Severasse wrote:
cloaks and warp stabs no longer work while within 30km of a FW complex.
that way the farming ship is easier to catch and will help force a pvp engagement.

why? i am irritated at how easy it is to farm and yet it is near impossible to actually catch farmers. plain and simple.

the lore bit behind this could be that in order to preserve your affiliated factions honor, they do not allow cloaks and warp stabs to work while within 30km of an offensive or defensive plex which is the maximum distance allowed to capture a plex.

or something like that idk

am i any sort of authority in fw? no
do i expect any of these changes? na
but i can dream :D

so, rewrite the lore so that all of a sudden every race respects bushido/traditional military doctrine, instead of good old irishstreet warfare?

yeah, no.


would rather see anyone who enters a FW plex be flagged for combat on site though, get tired of getting a sec status hit for shooting someone who warps into what is clearly marked as a military engagement zone.


How about you can't hack the control point while cloaked? (or stabbed).

Presto, reason given.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#20 - 2014-01-31 05:38:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Benny Ohu
the solution isn't to limit what players can do, this is hamfisted and bad

There are two problems with FW plexing. The first is that 'running and hiding' is actually more effective and profitable than 'staying and fighting' which is what FW is all about. Anyone who claims plexes aren't supposed to facilitate PVP is wrong. If the best option is 'bore the other guy into leaving so I can keep making money' there's something wrong with the system. FW is about PVP and the game should be about having fun. Not staring at a Condor orbiting a button or watching some bear warp between safes.

The second problem is that solo plexing is always more desirable efficiency-wise than plexing with a friend. Anyone looking to hunt plexers for warzone reasons or killmails rather than 'solo goodfites' will bring two or more people. So the plexer will prefer to be solo due to mechanics and hunters will prefer bringing a friend. (Although I aware most of us have been on plexing fleets where we all jump in different plexes in the same system)

The problems are linked. Mechanically-enforced solo plexing means 'running and hiding' is the better choice more often.

So we need two solutions. The first is to make 'staying and fighting' more desirable than 'running and hiding'. I actually have no problem with people who don't want to fight... but they don't deserve more reward than people who'll defend their plex. And assuming fights have a 50/50 chance of you losing, you're worse off fighting for the plex. Besides, who in Gallente militia wants to attack and take a plex that some Caldari guy ran down to one minute? They'll have to win a fight then sit in a plex twice as long for the same reward.

Honestly? As it is, if you're looking to make LP, fighting for plexes is stupid.

So yeah, make 'staying and fighting' more desirable than 'running and hiding', keeping 'running and hiding' an option. More options is always good, as long as the best option facilitates fun gameplay. The player should be able to say to themselves "If I stay, fight and win half the time, I'll be making more LP than running all the time". I think the answer is timer rollbacks. No friendly militia in the plex, the timer runs back down to zero. Maybe if there's an enemy in the plex, the timer runs up twice as fast until it reaches halfway, then runs down at the normal pace. Maybe the timer should reset to zero? Whatever it is, cloaking or running from the complex should hurt your bottom line.

The second solution is to ensure that solo plexing is most desirable, but that plexing in a team is not completely undesirable. Obviously the solo plexer should be getting the better deal because they're less safe. And at the same time, you don't want to make blobbing a way to win the 'plexing for LP' game. I think that having more players inside should run down the timer a little faster with diminishing returns for each additional player. Two pilots could run down the timer at 1.15 timed seconds per real second, the third pilot 1.25.



Regarding flagging neutral pilots? **** off and man up. When a pilot enters your plex, you have the same option everyone else in lowsec has:

Shoot first, or don't.

You don't get to be special. Whoever shoots first has a slight advantage, but drops sec. The sec drop for shooting a ship is so small that buying a tag every few weeks isn't going to break the bank. If you don't like dropping sec, don't shoot first or get the hell back to SOE missions, carebear.
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