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Official Lore vs. EVE Client

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Caroline Grace
Retrostellar Boulevard
#1 - 2014-01-19 14:01:26 UTC
Hello,

I have a couple of questions about lore when comes to patches, expansions and small tweaks in EVE client, most of them are probably very annoying for a lore expert, but I want them to be answered Big smile


  • Warp speed changes

  • How are these explained in the official lore? All ships suddenly have different warp speeds and accelerations after Rubicon.

  • V3 textures and hull changes

  • Suddenly, our camera drones are picking V3 textures on capitals and super capitals ships and on stargates, too (V3 stations are coming). It can be explained by "We have put better high res cameras on your camera drones", but sometimes this doesn't work because the whole hull changes a bit, for everyone in the universe. That means when a patch with V3 textures comes, suddenly all ships in question get massive overhaul over 2 hours+- of downtime? How is this explained properly in lore?

  • Asteroid belts after downtime

  • So I'm mining a last rock 10 minutes before downtime, then CONCORD forces me to go sleep and when I wake up, at the same spot, there is suddenly dozens of new rocks. Every single day this is happening. How is this magic explained in the official lore?

  • Ship texture collisions

  • Well, we all know the bumping technology. But when you look at Jita 4/4 undock, you can see a lot of ships getting literally smashed together by their hulls. Is this explained in lore by an unperfect camera drones feed or something?

  • There is a Minmatar dude in middle of Amarr space in Minmatar station, giving me anti-Amarr missions.

  • This one is a funny one. Deep in territory of any empire, you can find stations from other empires with security agents who give you missions against the very empire you are in. Not only I don't understand how an empire who is at war with the other empire can allow to build an enemy station type inside their territory, but I also fail to understand how such agents can be at the station.

  • My ship won't break and my fuel / oxygen / food supplies are infinite!

  • Alright. Let's say I'm a very careful pilot who never overheat, who never takes a hull damage and just happily flies around New Eden and never dock, because stations are smelly. Let's say I will be doing this for 2 years. How come my crew won't die from starvation / lack of oxygen or just because something sometimes goes wrong on your couple of hundreds long spaceship?

  • Magic docking and undocking and small stations all around

  • I think this one is pretty obvious. Is there some kind of official teleportation technology in EVE when comes to docking and undocking? Also the small stations and hundreds of freighters. Yeah. I don't get it. Not to mention the station from inside looks twice as big as from outside and that is only my "garage" view.


    This is all for now, thank you very much Big smile

    I'm Caroline Grace, and this is my favorite musical on the Citadel.

    Mizhir
    Devara Biotech
    #2 - 2014-01-19 14:21:12 UTC
    Jovians

    ❤️️💛💚💙💜

    Caroline Grace
    Retrostellar Boulevard
    #3 - 2014-01-19 14:37:24 UTC
    Big smile

    Fair enough.

    I'm Caroline Grace, and this is my favorite musical on the Citadel.

    Nlex
    Domini Canium
    #4 - 2014-01-19 17:18:47 UTC
    Most balance and graphical changes, I think, are explained by waving DEV hand and saying: "It has always been this way".
    Caroline Grace
    Retrostellar Boulevard
    #5 - 2014-01-19 17:51:24 UTC
    Nlex wrote:
    Most balance and graphical changes, I think, are explained by waving DEV hand and saying: "It has always been this way".


    That would be a very poor explanation, I have to say. I understand we are limited by the fact we are playing a game afterall (though EVE is real, I swear), but I was always fascinated by workarounds in lore for some very specific "anti-lore" game mechanics. I think it enriches the deep-core lore altogether.

    I'm Caroline Grace, and this is my favorite musical on the Citadel.

    Esna Pitoojee
    Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
    Khimi Harar
    #6 - 2014-01-19 18:40:54 UTC
    Different things get different answers, depending on the scale and nature of the change. I'll try and address your examples one-by-one. I'll note that most of my answers describe generally-accepted "fanon" answers; in places I'll note where CCP has actually given an explanation on these topics.



  • Warp speed changes

  • Minor 'stat tweak' changes like this are generally explained as CONCORD and/or the ship design producers issuing new directives regarding operation of equipment in question - for example, 'advances in warp core stabilization technology have allowed some ships to be fitted with warp cores that come in and out of warp at a much greater rate; however, the research also determined that larger-massing hulls were risking catastrophic warp-core failure by accelerating/decelerating in and out of warp at the rates they were; in response, CONCORD has mandated that all such vessels reduce their rates to within safe margins'.

    I'll also add here something about ship fitting changes: In a situation where a ship has had a major shift of its intended purpose, such as the Armageddon turning form a damage-heavy turretboat to a utility-focused droneboat or all the mining frigates turning into remote repair frigates, this is generally explained as the hulls undergoing an overhaul in lore as well as in mechanics. Sometimes this has been acknowledged in ship descriptions (Hurricane Navy Issue, new RR frigates) while in others it has gone relatively un-noticed.

    In general, that these changes happen overnight is generally dealt with via handwavium.



  • V3 textures and hull changes

  • Minor tweaks (texture updates that may move minor details, etc) are generally hit with the 'it was always that way' line. Similar to the above, major ship model changes (new/old Scorpion, upcomming new Crucifier, Command Ships switching which battlecruiser hulls they use) are generally explained as being overhauls instituted by CONCORD / the ship producers - also again, that it happens overnight is usually :handwavium:.



  • Asteroid belts after downtime

  • No idea if this has ever been really addressed; my personal bet is something along the lines of "during these downtimes, CONCORD updates out navigational beacons to reflect unharvested asteroid fields."



  • Ship texture collisions

  • This is a game derp, pure and simple. It is necessary in order to prevent ships from being hurled away at extreme speeds as their models collide, but there really isn't a physical way for two ships to occupy the same physical space.



  • There is a Minmatar dude in middle of Amarr space in Minmatar station, giving me anti-Amarr missions.

  • Missions in specific but PvE in general tend to be heavily lore- and immersion-breaking; it's best not to try and fit it in to specifically. This kind of thing can be filed under the same category as rescuing the damsel 5 times a day, finding huge battlefleets dozens of jumps from any border that the NPC navies have inexplicably missed, or the large numbers of missions that reflect outdated lore (for instance, agents wringing their hands about 'the looming threat of war' when Factional Warfare along with battles between NPC navies has been a thing for years now).



  • My ship won't break and my fuel / oxygen / food supplies are infinite!

  • I personally take the view that there are invisible drones (similar to our camera drones) that resupply our ships at most opportunities - for instance, when inside of a POS bubble or lingering nearby a station for longer than a moment. One might also argue the point that if you stay in space that long, you will inevitably HAVE to receive resupply of some kind, whether from anchored can, POS, or friendly players' ship. Fresh crew, replacement small equipment, fuel, food, etc would be transferred aboard at the same time.



  • Magic docking and undocking and small stations all around

  • Stations do badly need a resize to fit lore, yes. Like PvE, it's best to just not look at this to closely - it can be put in the same category as filling a freighter with ships that are larger dimensionally than the freighter is, and other such size-related issues.
    Caroline Grace
    Retrostellar Boulevard
    #7 - 2014-01-19 20:17:48 UTC
    Thanks for that detailed post Esna, that's fantastic.

    I agree with you on almost everything. I have some issues with the infamous 'it was always that way' and with the invisible supply drones, but that can be addressed in the future by some clever lore/dev explanation, perhaps.

    I'm Caroline Grace, and this is my favorite musical on the Citadel.

    Akrasjel Lanate
    Lanate Industries
    #8 - 2014-01-20 09:46:38 UTC
    Nlex wrote:
    Most balance and graphical changes, I think, are explained by waving DEV hand and saying: "It has always been this way".


    Something like this.

    Also like i see some pople that like want to put every litle thing that CCP changes in the game to lore for some reson.

    CEO of Lanate Industries

    Citizen of Solitude

    Ray Mitar
    Ganksters Inc
    #9 - 2014-01-20 11:27:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Ray Mitar
    It should be understood that except for Navy stations & government entity stations, one could easily assume the stations are simply of a particular Empire design and that does not mean it is owned by that Empire. Just as any race pilot can fly any racial ship they are trained for.

    The agents giving the PVE missions are spies that their host Empire does not know about.

    Warp speed changes could be attributed to firmware upgrades or downgrades that are broadcast cluster wide for everyone's safety.

    The little border skirmishes of faction warfare are somehow not considered war. Some serious handwavium is required for us to accept that and move along, but that is what is seems to be.

    You don't need air you live in a pod that recycles it's fluids. Think about that next time you are hungry in space.

    All ships have 50 years of food and air for their baseline crew members .... lol ... handwavium!

    Real time docking and undocking would add minutes to getting in and out of stations, players still gripe about the minimal delay when using he Captain's quarters, so that is clearly a no go.

    CCP has huge gaping holes in the lore and they have not assigned people with the time to fill those holes. Sadly many players would love to assist, even with strict CCP supervision, but they are seemingly not interested in filling those lore holes anytime soon.
    Caroline Grace
    Retrostellar Boulevard
    #10 - 2014-01-20 11:47:59 UTC
    Akrasjel Lanate wrote:
    Also like i see some pople that like want to put every litle thing that CCP changes in the game to lore for some reson.

    Uh huh, because it's immersion breaking, perhaps? Little things and details in lore are exactly what in any game makes me to stop and appreciate the depth and riches of the game's universe. Nothing else. Big Titans and big battles are fine, of course, but you get the level of connectivity between you and the game only through little, rather unimportant things. Just like in real life.

    And if you consider that every patch changes little of this and little of that, at some point you want some answers Blink

    Ray Mitar wrote:
    CCP has huge gaping holes in the lore and they have not assigned people with the time to fill those holes. Sadly many players would love to assist, even with strict CCP supervision, but they are seemingly not interested in filling those lore holes anytime soon.

    That's a shame, really. Ever since Incarna fiasco, the focus on lore is minimal with each new expansion. Though we had that big Titan thing and also record number in released lore world news last year. Yet I'm still missing something. Maybe the lack of live events, maybe the lack of little things I can find. I have no idea.

    I'm Caroline Grace, and this is my favorite musical on the Citadel.

    Kale Silence
    Doomheim
    #11 - 2014-03-23 22:32:13 UTC
    CCP Falcon
    #12 - 2014-03-25 11:28:33 UTC

    While personally, I've always had a bit of OCD in terms of backstory and everything being explained perfectly, there are some things that we just can't explain away with fiction and lore.

    Sadly that's just the way it is, and sometimes changes have to be made that can't be reflected fully in backstory, although we try to do our best in accommodating it Smile

    CCP Falcon || EVE Universe Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon

    Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3

    Stitcher
    School of Applied Knowledge
    Caldari State
    #13 - 2014-03-25 16:59:47 UTC
    I have three rules:

    1 - The game is an imperfect lens through which we peer at the world. Some things are seen with greater clarity than others. Some detail is lost entirely.

    2 - if something in the game changes in a way where both the beginning and end point make sense from an in-universe, in-character perspective, but the change itself does not (for example, battleships now accelerating more slowly in warp), then it has retroactively always been that way, and any contradictory memories are our problem, not the lore's.

    3 - Anything which just plain doesn't make sense from an in-universe, in-character perspective is to be ignored for the purposes of roleplay. Just don't go there.

    AKA Hambone

    Author of The Deathworlders

    Che Biko
    Alexylva Paradox
    #14 - 2014-04-04 15:34:07 UTC
    CCP Falcon wrote:
    [..]there are some things that we just can't explain away with fiction and lore.[..]
    Like the redesigned Hulk: Designed for maximum mining efficiency/yield, has the least efficient, lowest yield mining turrets of all exhumers.
    Roll
    CCP Falcon
    #15 - 2014-04-22 19:36:02 UTC
    Che Biko wrote:
    CCP Falcon wrote:
    [..]there are some things that we just can't explain away with fiction and lore.[..]
    Like the redesigned Hulk: Designed for maximum mining efficiency/yield, has the least efficient, lowest yield mining turrets of all exhumers.
    Roll


    Troll posts with :rollyeyes: on the forums won't get things fixed. If you feel there's an error in a ship description, feel free to file a bug report and we'll look into it, rather than being unconstructive on the forums.

    Smile

    CCP Falcon || EVE Universe Community Manager || @CCP_Falcon

    Happy Birthday To FAWLTY7! <3

    Makoto Priano
    Kirkinen-Arataka Transhuman Zenith Consulting Ltd.
    Arataka Research Consortium
    #16 - 2014-04-22 19:44:00 UTC
    Falcon, quick question-- is the ISD Mercury team still active?

    Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries: exploring the edge of the known, advancing the state of the art. Would you like to know more?

    Xindi Kraid
    Itsukame-Zainou Hyperspatial Inquiries Ltd.
    Arataka Research Consortium
    #17 - 2014-05-09 23:08:09 UTC
    Stitcher wrote:
    I have three rules:

    1 - The game is an imperfect lens through which we peer at the world. Some things are seen with greater clarity than others. Some detail is lost entirely.

    2 - if something in the game changes in a way where both the beginning and end point make sense from an in-universe, in-character perspective, but the change itself does not (for example, battleships now accelerating more slowly in warp), then it has retroactively always been that way, and any contradictory memories are our problem, not the lore's.

    3 - Anything which just plain doesn't make sense from an in-universe, in-character perspective is to be ignored for the purposes of roleplay. Just don't go there.

    That's about how I see things. For instance I pretty much ignore the warp speed changes for RP, and if anyone were to ask I'd just say it's always been that way, but on the other hand I RP the changes to interceptors that happened at the same time to have been something that recently came out; some corp or another managed to add interdiction nullifiers to their interceptor and the concept was stolen by the rest of the corps and empires and rolled out. I don't RP this as happening immediately, the roll out date is simply when the tech first made it's way into capsuleer hands.

    ISD Ezwal
    ISD Community Communications Liaisons
    ISD Alliance
    #18 - 2014-05-11 00:06:31 UTC
    Caroline Grace wrote:
  • Magic docking and undocking and small stations all around

  • I think this one is pretty obvious. Is there some kind of official teleportation technology in EVE when comes to docking and undocking?
    I have no idea if there is an official lore explanation for this (Falcon perhaps knows), but I personally always envisioned it like this:

    The camera drones that are our eyes outside the ship we fly in have to be retracted before we can dock, effectively leaving us blind during the actual docking procedure. When docked we link into in-station camera's and can see our ship again.
    Again, that's how I personally envision it.

    ISD Ezwal Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

    Kallie Altosoro
    Ardene TAC
    #19 - 2014-05-12 16:32:46 UTC
    You know, I spent more than twenty minutes typing out a reply with quote and unquote commands. When I was finally done and hit "preview" to check my work, the board saw fit to not even copy what I had just typed out. I would have to start all over again.

    Sorry. Could have a been nice discussion.

    "Hey, this is my kind of rain.  No wonder the sky looked funny today."  -Dante

    At warp, I can fly through a star.  But I have to finaggle my way around this asteroid.  /smirk

    Bagrat Skalski
    Koinuun Kotei
    #20 - 2014-05-12 19:45:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Bagrat Skalski
    ISD Ezwal wrote:
    Caroline Grace wrote:
  • Magic docking and undocking and small stations all around

  • I think this one is pretty obvious. Is there some kind of official teleportation technology in EVE when comes to docking and undocking?
    I have no idea if there is an official lore explanation for this (Falcon perhaps knows), but I personally always envisioned it like this:

    The camera drones that are our eyes outside the ship we fly in have to be retracted before we can dock, effectively leaving us blind during the actual docking procedure. When docked we link into in-station camera's and can see our ship again.
    Again, that's how I personally envision it.


    I envision ships being microjumpdrived on the positions. Traffic in the background is people doing rounds in the training program for license to fly a spaceship. They are not allowed to leave station.
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