These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Rubicon 1.1] Tracking Disruptor and Sensor Damp Strength Changes in Conjunction with Heat Iteration

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#101 - 2014-01-17 11:04:45 UTC
Good morning everyone. I've been chatting with Rise and Ytterbium a bit this morning and we've decided to leave the change to the base strength of Target Painters out of Rubicon 1.1. You'll still be able to overheat them, but their base values will remain the same for now.

We're going to reevaluate the peak strength of these modules after the patch and I won't rule out making changes in the future if deemed necessary.

Thanks for the feedback so far.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Zloco Crendraven
BALKAN EXPRESS
Shadow Cartel
#102 - 2014-01-17 11:10:09 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Good morning everyone. I've been chatting with Rise and Ytterbium a bit this morning and we've decided to leave the change to the base strength of Target Painters out of Rubicon 1.1. You'll still be able to overheat them, but their base values will remain the same for now.

We're going to reevaluate the peak strength of these modules after the patch and I won't rule out making changes in the future if deemed necessary.

Thanks for the feedback so far.


Great decision. TP needed a buff and this is it.

BALEX, bringing piracy on a whole new level.
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
#103 - 2014-01-17 11:11:51 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Good morning everyone. I've been chatting with Rise and Ytterbium a bit this morning and we've decided to leave the change to the base strength of Target Painters out of Rubicon 1.1. You'll still be able to overheat them, but their base values will remain the same for now.

We're going to reevaluate the peak strength of these modules after the patch and I won't rule out making changes in the future if deemed necessary.

Thanks for the feedback so far.


any discussion of the strength of webs? which kind of obsolete TP's atm..

T3's need to be versatile so no rigs are necessary ... they should not have OP dps and tank

ABC's should be T2, remove drone assist, separate HAM's and Torps range, -3 HS for droneboats

Nerf web strength, Make the blaster Eagle worth using
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#104 - 2014-01-17 11:13:07 UTC
Harvey James wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Good morning everyone. I've been chatting with Rise and Ytterbium a bit this morning and we've decided to leave the change to the base strength of Target Painters out of Rubicon 1.1. You'll still be able to overheat them, but their base values will remain the same for now.

We're going to reevaluate the peak strength of these modules after the patch and I won't rule out making changes in the future if deemed necessary.

Thanks for the feedback so far.


any discussion of the strength of webs? which kind of obsolete TP's atm..


We're not going to change webs in 1.1, but webs are a big part of the target painter picture and we're putting thought into it.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
#105 - 2014-01-17 11:27:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Lephia DeGrande
TPs would be nice if it could have a sideeffect like webs, because webs do have some "hidden" advantages.

Web:
Slower your Target, which is nearly the same as increasing signature, but slower does also mean you can aproach the Enemy or run away, but dont stop here you can even take better position to increase your damage application over a better angle...

Only downside the range, but regardless of 1vs1 or in a gang you do have 3-4 advantages in one.


Target Painter:
Increase Signature for better damage Application, some good range.

Downside? You still hit ****, because they run away all your explosion velocity, your tracking, missuse your position (Tracking) and even dictade the distance between you and your Enemy.

So its 3 disadvantages for 1 medicore positive.


Thats simply unbalanced, period!

CCP increase TP unheated to a meaningfull Level or add another "Feature".

EDIT: for example Missiles flying towards TP pointed enemys fly faster or missiles do more damage on Target painted enemys, so missiles could also get some PvP Love...

Meet the Mario Kart 8 - Capsuleer Club Cup
Maxxor Brutor
Borderline Procurements
#106 - 2014-01-17 11:29:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Maxxor Brutor
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Good morning everyone. I've been chatting with Rise and Ytterbium a bit this morning and we've decided to leave the change to the base strength of Target Painters out of Rubicon 1.1. You'll still be able to overheat them, but their base values will remain the same for now.


Hurrah! Now just bring the Reverb Target Painter back and all will be forgiven Cool

edit: And target painter rigs plz!
Gimme more Cynos
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#107 - 2014-01-17 11:35:23 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Good morning everyone. I've been chatting with Rise and Ytterbium a bit this morning and we've decided to leave the change to the base strength of Target Painters out of Rubicon 1.1. You'll still be able to overheat them, but their base values will remain the same for now.

We're going to reevaluate the peak strength of these modules after the patch and I won't rule out making changes in the future if deemed necessary.

Thanks for the feedback so far.


Good one.


Thanks for listening to us =)
Capt Retard
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#108 - 2014-01-17 11:45:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Capt Retard
Lephia DeGrande wrote:
TPs would be nice if it could have a sideeffect like webs, because webs do have some "hidden" advantages.

Web:
Slower your Target, which is nearly the same as increasing signature, but slower does also mean you can aproach the Enemy or run away, but dont stop here you can even take better position to increase your damage application over a better angle...

Only downside the range, but regardless of 1vs1 or in a gang you do have 3-4 advantages in one.


Target Painter:
Increase Signature for better damage Application, some good range.

Downside? You still hit ****, because they run away all your explosion velocity, your tracking, missuse your position (Tracking) and even dictade the distance between you and your Enemy.

So its 3 disadvantages for 1 medicore positive.


TPs have one important positive, and its making locking faster for your gang. Sadly - on the ships with a bonus to TP, you are SHAFTED by fittings and so cant improve your own lock speed to even use get a TP applied quicker for the gang. For example:

Huggin needs 2 webs to get decent stopping, 1 SB to get decent locking, 2 TP to provide decent gang bonus to locking/damage application, prop mod .. and no tank whatsoever. See Hyena, try fitting it and laugh like one. Add to that that you will instapop to anything with ranged damage, and its the WORST ewar choice period.

One thing I would like to see added to TP bonus is a 'blinding' effect making the targets scan res dive while painted - but only for the painter. Or shift a highslot to a mid, and change some damage bonuses/fitting bonuses.
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
#109 - 2014-01-17 11:52:29 UTC
Capt ****** wrote:
Lephia DeGrande wrote:
Grab ma Stuff...


TPs have one important positive, and its making locking faster for your gang. Sadly - on the ships with a bonus to TP, you are SHAFTED by fittings and so cant improve your own lock speed to even use get a TP applied quicker for the gang. For example:

Huggin needs 2 webs to get decent stopping, 1 SB to get decent locking, 2 TP to provide decent gang bonus to locking/damage application, prop mod .. and no tank whatsoever. See Hyena, try fitting it and laugh like one. Add to that that you will instapop to anything with ranged damage, and its the WORST ewar choice period.

One thing I would like to see added to TP bonus is a 'blinding' effect making the targets scan res dive while painted - but only for the painter.


Whoops, forgot about that, thank you for the correction.

Meet the Mario Kart 8 - Capsuleer Club Cup
Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#110 - 2014-01-17 12:08:50 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Overall I do nto like the changes. More and more thigns are pushed where they are only usable on extremely specialzied ships. That is dumb, bad design and make the fittign of the ship that used to be an important part of eve, more and more irrelevant.

It seems like each ewar is made to be used on a single ship and no way in others, and each ship is made to be fitted in a signle way.


Most people already use generic fits anyway. No change. They might just get even more predictable, which is good for all the smart people and bad for all the copycats who can't think for themselves.

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE
Vinyl 41
AdVictis
#111 - 2014-01-17 12:10:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Vinyl 41
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Good morning everyone. I've been chatting with Rise and Ytterbium a bit this morning and we've decided to leave the change to the base strength of Target Painters out of Rubicon 1.1. You'll still be able to overheat them, but their base values will remain the same for now.

We're going to reevaluate the peak strength of these modules after the patch and I won't rule out making changes in the future if deemed necessary.

Thanks for the feedback so far.


any discussion of the strength of webs? which kind of obsolete TP's atm..


We're not going to change webs in 1.1, but webs are a big part of the target painter picture and we're putting thought into it.

so as i understand you fear about the internal balance on those 2 when used in large scale fights - im not that sure if its the right way to make balance - apreciate the unchange to TPs and waiting to see the next proposals regarding both items
Jim Nastik
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#112 - 2014-01-17 12:39:35 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Good morning everyone. I've been chatting with Rise and Ytterbium a bit this morning and we've decided to leave the change to the base strength of Target Painters out of Rubicon 1.1. You'll still be able to overheat them, but their base values will remain the same for now.

We're going to reevaluate the peak strength of these modules after the patch and I won't rule out making changes in the future if deemed necessary.

Thanks for the feedback so far.



GOOD
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#113 - 2014-01-17 12:47:53 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
CCP Fozzie wrote:
:The original version of this post included a reduction in strength to target painters as well. We have decided to leave their base strength as is for 1.1 and reevaluate from there:

Awesome.

If you do make changes in the future please first consider reducing the overheat strength before reducing the base strength.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#114 - 2014-01-17 12:49:00 UTC
Lephia DeGrande wrote:
TPs would be nice if it could have a sideeffect like webs, because webs do have some "hidden" advantages.

Web:
Slower your Target, which is nearly the same as increasing signature, but slower does also mean you can aproach the Enemy or run away, but dont stop here you can even take better position to increase your damage application over a better angle...

Only downside the range, but regardless of 1vs1 or in a gang you do have 3-4 advantages in one.


Target Painter:
Increase Signature for better damage Application, some good range.

Downside? You still hit ****, because they run away all your explosion velocity, your tracking, missuse your position (Tracking) and even dictade the distance between you and your Enemy.

So its 3 disadvantages for 1 medicore positive.


Thats simply unbalanced, period!

CCP increase TP unheated to a meaningfull Level or add another "Feature".

EDIT: for example Missiles flying towards TP pointed enemys fly faster or missiles do more damage on Target painted enemys, so missiles could also get some PvP Love...


TP advantage is that you do not need to get in the enemy WEB range. TP are good if you are faster than the enemy.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
#115 - 2014-01-17 12:59:42 UTC
Sure the bigger the fight the better the TP gets, but in small gang or solo its simply more effective to use webs and scrambler instead of TPs and dont gain any advantages of the longer range because you gimp it anyways by using points and scramblers.

Meet the Mario Kart 8 - Capsuleer Club Cup
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#116 - 2014-01-17 13:02:19 UTC
TPs aren't bad exactly, they're just good in different situations than other stuff.

If CCP do their thing and make signature radius more relevant, nerf webs loads, and do what I say and make it so people are use low-tracking guns more often rather than short range guns with null/scorch/barrage (and range mods, resulting in insane tracking), you will want TPs more.
Lephia DeGrande
Luxembourg Space Union
#117 - 2014-01-17 13:14:43 UTC
If this will happen, Gallente will be ******. ;)

Meet the Mario Kart 8 - Capsuleer Club Cup
Maximus Aerelius
PROPHET OF ENIGMA
#118 - 2014-01-17 13:34:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Maximus Aerelius
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Good morning everyone. I've been chatting with Rise and Ytterbium a bit this morning and we've decided to leave the change to the base strength of Target Painters out of Rubicon 1.1. You'll still be able to overheat them, but their base values will remain the same for now.

We're going to reevaluate the peak strength of these modules after the patch and I won't rule out making changes in the future if deemed necessary.

Thanks for the feedback so far.


@CCP Fozzie

I'm really pleased that you've listened again to the community, talked it over with other Devs and re-adjusted. Just as you did with Marauders and Bastion modules.

This makes me all warm and fuzzy inside.

I have to agree with the others that if this is to be revisited then please look to reduce the % increase when OH is applied and not to the base stats of the TP's as you've probably read that this has bigger implications from a PvE perspective than PvP where EWAR is mostly sans TP's.

You're alright in my book Fozzie!

[b]Fast Character Switching "XP Stylee" Undocking - More Routes Out of Station[/b] Here's my tear jar > |_| < Fill 'er up!
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#119 - 2014-01-17 13:44:56 UTC
Lephia DeGrande wrote:
Sure the bigger the fight the better the TP gets, but in small gang or solo its simply more effective to use webs and scrambler instead of TPs and dont gain any advantages of the longer range because you gimp it anyways by using points and scramblers.



yes, but there is still place for 1 or 2 TP in a gang.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Meyr
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
OnlyFleets.
#120 - 2014-01-17 13:54:52 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD Ezwal
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Harvey James wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Good morning everyone. I've been chatting with Rise and Ytterbium a bit this morning and we've decided to leave the change to the base strength of Target Painters out of Rubicon 1.1. You'll still be able to overheat them, but their base values will remain the same for now.

We're going to reevaluate the peak strength of these modules after the patch and I won't rule out making changes in the future if deemed necessary.

Thanks for the feedback so far.


any discussion of the strength of webs? which kind of obsolete TP's atm..


We're not going to change webs in 1.1, but webs are a big part of the target painter picture and we're putting thought into it.


There's a discussion I'd love to listen to...

You're willing to put TIME and THOUGHT into Stasts Webifiers and Target Painters, enough to consider them as a package deal.

Hooray.

On the other hand, you're willing to **** over drones i*Snip* Please refrain from personal attacks. ISD Ezwal