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[Rubicon 1.1] Overheating Iterations

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Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#61 - 2014-01-16 23:15:46 UTC
I love the change to skill requirements for Thermodynamics.

Let's get the newbros using this powerful PVP tool earlier. And by newbros, I mean both players completely new to EVE, and also newly-created ganking alts.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Spanker
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#62 - 2014-01-17 00:29:12 UTC
Yep......Someones growing some loco weed in CCP. Shocked Why not nerf every ship all over again? Lets target every role ability and take 20% of it away That would be AWESOME!.......
Irya Boone
The Scope
#63 - 2014-01-17 00:41:39 UTC
Why for god sake are you conding things NO ONE ASKED YOU to
And ignore all the requests from the Players

What about Drone UI? what wbout stop messing with drones to protect Goons , drones pilots are not ONLY archon pilots DAMN!!

I really really don't understand!!

CCP it's time to remove Off Grid Boost and Put Them on Killmail too, add Logi on killmails .... Open that damn door !!

you shall all bow and pray BoB
Lexiana Del'Amore
Nouvelle Rouvenor
#64 - 2014-01-17 01:02:30 UTC
with all these changes to Overheating... any chance you can modify the icon used to overheat?

It's tiny and does not always relay correctly if a rack is overheating or not.

Bigger clearer icon/button would be greatly appreciated
Topher Basquette Dusch-shur
Montana Freedom Fighters
#65 - 2014-01-17 01:04:03 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hello everyone! Now we arrive at the more significant package of balance changes in today's announcements.


Obviously this is a heavy handed move from CCP Fozzie to get all 700 female Eve players to associate his name with the words "significant package".
sabastyian
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#66 - 2014-01-17 01:43:58 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Hello everyone! Now we arrive at the more significant package of balance changes in today's announcements.

As I announced at EVE Vegas, changes to overheating were on the plan for Rubicon, specifically expanding heat functionality to many modules that did not have it before. This set of changes was bumped from the main Rubicon release due to time and will be arriving in Rubicon 1.1, along with some associated balance changes to some modules heavily affected by the heat iteration.

I'll be talking about the heat specific changes in this thread, and splitting the associated balance changes off into their own threads to help focus the discussion.

Those other threads cover:

Tracking Disruptor, Sensor Dampener, Target Painter Changes

Capital Turret Changes

Omnidirectional Tracking Link Changes

I'd advise reading this OP all the way through before jumping to those ones quite yet.


Ok! Time to look at overheating itself.

Heat is one of our favourite combat mechanics as it provides opportunities for good decision making, bad decision making, and the excitement that comes from not knowing how your decision making will compare to that of your opponents. Big smile

The main goals of this change are to lower the barrier of entry a little so that newer players can choose to jump into overheating earlier, and to expand the heat mechanic to a lot of modules (mostly active midslot modules) that one would expect to use heat but currently do not.

Firstly, we are reducing the Power Grid Management skill requirement to train Thermodynamics from level 5 to level 4. This means that post 1.1 the requirements to train Thermodynamics will be Capacitor Management III, Science IV, and Power Grid Management IV. PGM is still a great skill to get to level 5, but now you can start overheating before starting that relatively long train.

Next, we are expanding what modules can use heat. Modules gaining heat functionality are:

The overheating effects of the modules will be as follows:
TC, SB, Omni, Remote TC, Remote SB: 15% strength
Remote ECCM: 30% strength
TD, Damp, Painter, ECM Burst: 20% strength
Smartbombs, TSB, Bubble launcher: -15% duration

Most of these modules will be getting heat generation rates in the same range as similar modules, with the notable exception of smartbombs. Overheated smartbombs will give off a lot of heat (less than prop mods but more than most other modules) to ensure that a full rack of them cannot be sustainably overheated for extended periods.

That's the changes we are making to heat itself in Rubicon 1.1. There are obviously other changes we want to make in the future including improvements to the UI and feedback for colorblind players, but those will need to wait for future releases.

Please take a look at the other threads linked at the top of this post for information on the other module balance changes being made to Ewar modules, Capital guns, and Omnidirectional Tracking Links in concert with these heat changes.

These changes will be on SISI in an upcoming update and we look forward to hearing your feedback.



Why not make smartbombs overheat be a RANGE increase instead of ROF?


crazy idea, instead of nerfing everything and then making us overheat to get it back, just decrease to overheat bonus *crowd gasps*
stoicfaux
#67 - 2014-01-17 02:37:43 UTC
If CCP is really trying to introduce isk sinks, then please reduce the costs of faction guns (and ammo) in the LP stores and I promise to buy them, use them, and overheat them.

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Red Teufel
Calamitous-Intent
#68 - 2014-01-17 03:53:32 UTC
probably the single stupidest thing and waste of development time ever ccp. litteraly you must of figured hey its eaither i work on a hard jesus feature orr... orrr I just look like i'm still working on balancing by changing things that...need no changing. O_o
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#69 - 2014-01-17 04:38:07 UTC
Irya Boone wrote:
Why for god sake are you conding things NO ONE ASKED YOU to
And ignore all the requests from the Players

What about Drone UI? what wbout stop messing with drones to protect Goons , drones pilots are not ONLY archon pilots DAMN!!

I really really don't understand!!



Uh - this isn't a pro-Goonswarm change.

If I were a Goon, I'd be pissed about the nerf to their Celestis doctrine.

As it is, I'll sit on the sidelines, point at the Goons, and say "suckers", then wait for them to come up with a new doctrine and sell them (and their enemies) the ships for it.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
CW Itovuo
The Executioners
#70 - 2014-01-17 05:07:56 UTC
Lexiana Del'Amore wrote:
with all these changes to Overheating... any chance you can modify the icon used to overheat?

It's tiny and does not always relay correctly if a rack is overheating or not.

Bigger clearer icon/button would be greatly appreciated



+1 to what's been said above.

The one significant change that is most needed, is a change the UI. Overheating an individual module is not difficult, but it could be made much easier with some simple icon/graphical updates. I would put that at the top of the to-do list, long before making any changes to the modules.


As for reducing the base level of the EW modules... I'd really prefer you keep things as is, then add a small overheat bonus.

Reducing the starting point so that you can then provide a overheat bonus is akin to politician doublespeak. Take 9 steps back, turn in place 3 times, then take 10 steps forward... congratulations, we've made progress, or have we?
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#71 - 2014-01-17 05:24:53 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
I think I speak for almost everyone when I say that I'd rather not have overheat on TP at all than have overheat that gives a slight benefit while the baseline of an already somewhat niche module nerfed.

The others are fine, really. SD and TD are very powerful currently and the slight nerf isn't a problem.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#72 - 2014-01-17 05:37:44 UTC
Lexiana Del'Amore wrote:
with all these changes to Overheating... any chance you can modify the icon used to overheat?

It's tiny and does not always relay correctly if a rack is overheating or not.

Bigger clearer icon/button would be greatly appreciated

Shift Click on a module changes overheat status (Once it reaches the end of it's current cycle, it will display current status till end of cycle then swap).

Learnt this gem a few hours ago myself in another thread.
Landrik Blake
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#73 - 2014-01-17 06:35:42 UTC
Yankunytjatjara wrote:
But please, for the love of god, finally FIX AFTERBURNERS! It's still useless to train them up to V because of the heating problem: the AB burns immediately.
It's going to be much worse now, with all these extra mid slot modules causing heat damage and generating residual heat on the rack.

@CCP Fozzie - Have you considered the implications of this on prop mods and shield tanked ships? Since you're nerfing some of these modules to compensate for overheating, aren't we now getting less out of our mid slots for the same amount of potential heat damage on the rack?
Louis Robichaud
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#74 - 2014-01-17 06:38:39 UTC
I'm not in favour of these changes. Increasing complexity isn't always good. Otherwise, why can't we overheat our rigs and our drones while we are at it? Heck, overheat the hull, overheat all the things!!!

That being said, the change to lower the skill requirement is good IMO

I blog a bit http://hspew.blogspot.ca
Marian Devers
Rage and Terror
Against ALL Authorities
#75 - 2014-01-17 07:34:06 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Next, we are expanding what modules can use heat. Modules gaining heat functionality are:
  • Interdiction Sphere Launchers



The current ROF of an Interdiction Sphere Launcher is 5 seconds. Overheated - 4.25 seconds. I fail to see any way this would be useful or beneficial to a pilot. If a target can burn out of a bubble and warp out in under 5 seconds, he can do the same in 4.25 seconds.
Yankunytjatjara
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#76 - 2014-01-17 08:00:11 UTC
Other OH related changes that are very needed:

Mods:
Reduce afterburners heating at higher skill levels, especially bad for small ones

UI:
1. make pre-heating possible when cloaked/gate-cloaked (like in warp: you're not activating anything yet)
2. if you are overheating the whole rack, a module whose cycle stops shouldn't stop that
3. change the "lock overheat state" button so that it doesn't prevent changing OH status, but rather remembers the OH status of each mod when its cycle ends/starts. Now it's dumb: you lock status, overheat a mod once, then it's reset, and to OH it again you have to unlock Roll
4. add a "prevent overheat" button instead, if this is how 3 is being used
5. clearer buttons

Mechanics:
It's always been said by devs that the leftmost and the rightmost mods in a rack are adjacent for heat, but it's a well known fact that it doesn't work. Should this be fixed?

My solo pvp video: Yankunytjude... That attitude! Solo/small gang proposal: Ship Velocity Vectors
Schmata Bastanold
In Boobiez We Trust
#77 - 2014-01-17 08:01:50 UTC
I like things HOT! Thank you Fozzie :)

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Morwennon
The Tuskers
The Tuskers Co.
#78 - 2014-01-17 08:15:33 UTC
While you're changing heat, could you make it possible to toggle the heat status of your modules while under gatecloak, so you could pre-heat your MWD or hardeners or whatever before decloaking?
poppeteer
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#79 - 2014-01-17 08:29:58 UTC
Sigh. 4 months of skill queue online before an indefinite break.
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#80 - 2014-01-17 11:13:30 UTC
Apologies if it's already been mentioned, but have you looked at the situation with capital ships using heat? It seems to me they essentially get all those new overheat bonuses built into the module now, since they can overheat forever.
How? In tidi, you can refit your carrier / dread in what is effectively 1 or 2 seconds of game time, meaning all they will do is overheat the new modules (omnis in particular on boot carriers) and replace them when they're too damaged.

Not to mention, without a change to drone assist, having perma-heated ECCM just makes the mechanic worse.

No, the cost of carrying multiple T2 mods isn't a disincentive to doing this.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,