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Dev blog: More Deployables from Super Friends

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Pinky Hops
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1361 - 2014-01-16 23:31:32 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Pinky Hops wrote:
Quote:
During the last 90 days 72% of the generated by NPC kills ISK came from the nullsec area.

That's actually staggeringly huge Shocked
Not particularly, since it's the only significant ISK faucet in null. Last we got any numbers on it, the system coughed up about 900bn ISK daily in the form of bounties — that would mean ~650bn came from null.

Compare this to the total injection of roughly 2 trillion ISK daily. A third of that is null bounties; nearly two thirds come from highsec ventures (the only other large separate post was ~250bn from w-space).


Sure, I can grok this.

But we're talking about a specific activity generating 72%...Not a specific area of space.

That's a lot of ISK for one activity to generate. You also deleted the part of my post where I said the main point is income -- not ISK, which I still think is valid.
Jowen Datloran
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#1362 - 2014-01-16 23:34:17 UTC
I am quite certain that there is no NDA preventing any CSM member to announce in this thread, that they hate (disapprove) of the proposed ESS. Nor that they approve of it, for that matter.

Actually, I would prefer if they made noise one way or the other, so it at least appeared like they care.

Mr. Science & Trade Institute, EVE Online Lorebook 

Omanth Bathana
Doomheim
#1363 - 2014-01-16 23:34:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Omanth Bathana
Tippia wrote:
Not particularly, since it's the only significant ISK faucet in null. Last we got any numbers on it, the system coughed up about 900bn ISK daily in the form of bounties — that would mean ~650bn came from null.

Compare this to the total injection of roughly 2 trillion ISK daily. A third of that is null bounties; nearly two thirds come from highsec ventures (the only other large separate post was ~250bn from w-space).


Assuming this is actually a correct representation of the numbers:

Reducing null-sec bounties by 5% would remove 32.5bn of daily isk injection. This is a little more than 1.5% of the total isk injected into the system daily.

This is, of course, assuming that the 5% reduction actually goes through and there isn't a net increase of 5% like CCP SoniClover seems to think there will be when every corner of null-sec is chock-full of these beautiful new modules. Roll
Pelea Ming
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1364 - 2014-01-16 23:36:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Pelea Ming
I meant it as an example of a source for isk income, my apologies for not clarifying that better... as for 'inflation' in general... I remember when Plex sold for around 350m isk... before incursions. This bloat on plex prices didn't come about till incursions launched... coincidence? (as a side note, I run incursions myself for my main source of isk, I say this to point out that this proposed module will not directly affect me, I argue my point simply to point out why I feel this module is a bad idea)
Pinky Hops
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1365 - 2014-01-16 23:37:57 UTC
Jowen Datloran wrote:
I am quite certain that there is no NDA preventing any CSM member to announce in this thread, that they hate (disapprove) of the proposed ESS. Nor that they approve of it, for that matter.

Actually, I would prefer if they made noise one way or the other, so it at least appeared like they care.


The NDA should be nullified on official release of the feature. If it isn't, it's a poorly written or downright awful contract that the CSM's were basically forced to sign on picking up the role.

It's entirely possible that you're right, I would just be disappointed that CCP devised a contract in that fashion.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#1366 - 2014-01-16 23:48:27 UTC
Vahl Ahashion wrote:
Omanth Bathana wrote:

Any CSM discussion not mentioned in the CSM Meeting minutes would have been NDA-ed (like this discussion over this module if it existed), so they wouldn't be able to talk about it even if they wanted to. I accept that the proposition I made is entirely speculative and is not to be treated with any seriousness. However, it has not gone unnoticed by me that the only posts in this thread are Ali Aras, who specifically mentioned that portions of this module and its operation are under an NDA; Mangala Solaris, who answered a clarification question; and Mynnna who posted an alternative option to the deployable. Usually CSM members are very active in a thread as controversial as this one.


Marlona Sky rather than Mynnna.

Uh no, Mynnna posted the alternative. Marlona was perfectly happy with the original ESS idea (predictably).

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#1367 - 2014-01-17 00:09:16 UTC
Alphea Abbra wrote:

1.) The ESS doesn't nerf bottom up income. The 5% reduction in bounties is independent of the ESS.
So it's purely and absolutely by accident that they're presented as one and the same?


They could rescind on the bounty reduction and it would have no effect on the ESS module!

Alphea Abbra wrote:

2.) The module has the potential for increasing your income and generating fights. You statement to the contrary is unfounded. The mere fact that alliances want to ban it outright, because they are afraid of the conflict it may generate, is proof you're unfounded!

They're not afraid of the conflict (That potential conflict is already there) - we'd ban it because it could provide a lot of blue-on-blue drama and because it's worthless to us.
You gotta be pretty daft to think this will increase income (As already shown), and it won't generate additional fights.


Drama is a form of conflict (although not the conflict I first envision)... And blue on blue drama would be a great foundation to drive a wedge between those large coalitions. Sounds even more win-win.

Alphea Abbra wrote:

5.) While I admit it could have been presented in better light, it meets the farms and fields criteria that many nullsec leaders have advocated for (including the mittani)

It doesn't meet the farms & fields criteria unless you reduce it to a 10-sec-soundbite. That's my point.


I understand you feel that way, but disagree with you. It is an object anyone can deploy to increase their income. To benefit from it, you must harvest it after ratting for a while. It can be harvested by hostiles, too. So you must defend it or risk losing the isk you invested in it. How is this not a farms and field concept? Just because you won't risk it (because your allies will take advantage of you if you do?) doesn't make change its fundamental nature: A farms and field device that qualifies as a small gang objective.

Alphea Abbra wrote:

6.) Direct lying? How, where? Misrepresenting feedback? Hardly.

You should check the SoniClover post where he "sums up" the feedback they got.
You can find it by going through the dev. posts in this thread.
SoniClover has also been lying about whether this will increase nullsec income or reduce it (Either or).


That wasn't lying. And given your propensity for embellishment, I hardly think you should be throwing stones. Furthermore, whining and moaning that you hate it isn't constructive feedback. Explain what is wrong with it, how it can be improved, etc, is the feedback that any developer would look for. I'm not saying it is perfect (certainly not in its first incarnation), but it has potential and screaming that it doesn't is unfathomable to me.

What is the big hooplah over a device this simple:
Deploy it or not.
If deployed, you sacrifice 15% of your bounty, with the hope of eventually recovering 25 isk for every 15 invested.
If deployed, anyone can harvest it taking all the isk, so deploy it only if you think you can defend it.

It is pretty simple and straight forward, and I really don't understand the negativity towards the ESS. Some complain its reward isn't good enough. Some complain defending it is too hard. While both valid viewpoints, these are things that are easily tweaked and changed with feedback. Neither of these imply the idea is terrible and salvageable!
Yeep
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1368 - 2014-01-17 00:17:40 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

I understand you feel that way, but disagree with you. It is an object anyone can deploy to increase their income. To benefit from it, you must harvest it after ratting for a while. It can be harvested by hostiles, too. So you must defend it or risk losing the isk you invested in it. How is this not a farms and field concept? Just because you won't risk it (because your allies will take advantage of you if you do?) doesn't make change its fundamental nature: A farms and field device that qualifies as a small gang objective.


But it doesn't increase your income. Right now it requires someone to be guarding it 100% of the time for 10% extra bounty. For it to increase anyone's income would require 9 people ratting for every 1 person defending. There isn't a single system in the game that can support 9 people ratting profitably.

And thats assuming only one single attacker who can be beaten off by a single defender. The defensive effort increases with the number of attackers but the time to loot does not. While a single defender could concievably prevent a single interceptor from looting the ESS if you bring 2 or more attackers the defenders now have to have 20+ people ratting in a system to make it worthwhile to deploy (or 4-5 times the number even the best 0.0 system can support).
Andrea Keuvo
Rusty Pricks
#1369 - 2014-01-17 00:19:54 UTC

Part of the problem is that CCP is trying to force the square peg that is this deployable into the round hole that is nullsec. This module creates no new content in nullsec. Those who wish to engage in PvP already have the opportunity to do so. It is normal procedure in nullsec to dock up when a neutral enters local because even what appears to be a semi-fair fight with a roaming gang always carries the threat of blops or capitals being dropped on you.

Additionally, because the PvE content in Eve is so bad (and of it anom grinding is some of the worst) the majority of ratters don't want to do it any longer than they absolutely have to. To get them to deploy an ESS on themselves and risk the loss of income the reward would have to be significantly increased and would end up well beyond where CCP would be comfortable with it (think 100% increase in bounties).

So where might this deployable work? With some mechanics tweaks, hisec would be the perfect place for it.

Imagine you could drop one of these in a hisec mission hub or incursion system and for 1 hour it would collect 5% of all bounties/LP earned. After the hour is up the module fully onlines and becomes a warpable beacon for 15 minutes.

When you land in the site you have a faction warfare style button where as long as you are within a set range of it you collect a portion of the isk/LP pool. Everyone warping to the beacon can be shot without Concord intervention until they warp away and if you blow up a player's ship you are awarded 50% of whatever portion of the reward pool that player earned.

Just to keep things fun and more hisec noob oriented (we don't need lowsec v2.0 here) no forms of ewar or remote reps can be activated in the site and no fleet boosts/links are applied. However, once you warp to the site your ship cannot reactivate it's warp drive for 30 seconds so you are committed to the battle.

At the end of the 15 minutes any uncollected bounties/LP are automatically returned to the player who originally earned them and the process can start over if someone else onlines a different ESS. If the bounty pool expires before the 15 minutes are up the beacon goes offline, all target locks are broken, all ships in the site warp 1M km in random directions, and normal hisec aggression mechanics again apply.

Now you have a completely new conflict driver as well as opportunities for financially rewarding hisec PvP that doesn't involve griefing, ganking, wardecs, or being Falconed. Hisec players might actually have a positive PvP experience and look for ways to become further involved.

A deployable like the ESS could add content and value to the game if it is introduced into the right region of space with the right mechanics. Yes, we need farms and fields in nullsec but the ESS as it is currently designed doesn't create either. Nullsec is just not the right place for this deployable.
Pelea Ming
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1370 - 2014-01-17 00:20:21 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

It is pretty simple and straight forward, and I really don't understand the negativity towards the ESS. Some complain its reward isn't good enough. Some complain defending it is too hard. While both valid viewpoints, these are things that are easily tweaked and changed with feedback. Neither of these imply the idea is terrible and salvageable!

apparently, you aren't reading this thread as carefully as your implying you do.
Pelea Ming
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1371 - 2014-01-17 00:23:40 UTC
Andrea Keuvo wrote:

So where might this deployable work? With some mechanics tweaks, hisec would be the perfect place for it.

Imagine you could drop one of these in a hisec mission hub or incursion system and for 1 hour it would collect 5% of all bounties/LP earned. After the hour is up the module fully onlines and becomes a warpable beacon for 15 minutes.

When you land in the site you have a faction warfare style button where as long as you are within a set range of it you collect a portion of the isk/LP pool. Everyone warping to the beacon can be shot without Concord intervention until they warp away and if you blow up a player's ship you are awarded 50% of whatever portion of the reward pool that player earned.

Just to keep things fun and more hisec noob oriented (we don't need lowsec v2.0 here) no forms of ewar or remote reps can be activated in the site and no fleet boosts/links are applied. However, once you warp to the site your ship cannot reactivate it's warp drive for 30 seconds so you are committed to the battle.

At the end of the 15 minutes any uncollected bounties/LP are automatically returned to the player who originally earned them and the process can start over if someone else onlines a different ESS. If the bounty pool expires before the 15 minutes are up the beacon goes offline, all target locks are broken, all ships in the site warp 1M km in random directions, and normal hisec aggression mechanics again apply.

Now you have a completely new conflict driver as well as opportunities for financially rewarding hisec PvP that doesn't involve griefing, ganking, wardecs, or being Falconed. Hisec players might actually have a positive PvP experience and look for ways to become further involved.

A deployable like the ESS could add content and value to the game if it is introduced into the right region of space with the right mechanics. Yes, we need farms and fields in nullsec but the ESS as it is currently designed doesn't create either. Nullsec is just not the right place for this deployable.

^^ This idea, I actually like, and approve of.
Kadl
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#1372 - 2014-01-17 00:25:59 UTC
Omanth Bathana wrote:
My problem with the ESS is that it is indicative of 1) a poor choice in direction for deployables as a category that doesn't support long-term use other than quality-of-life deployables like the MTU and Mobile Depot, 2) a fundamental breakdown of the channels CCP uses to communicate with the player base, and 3) a complete lack of understand of how null-sec personal income generation works and what can be done to make it more palatable to/enjoyable for players.


1) I am not seeing any opposition from you to the Small Mobile Siphon, Cynosural Inhibitor, or the Mobile Jump Unit. Are those all on the right track? Or perhaps at least one is a sidetrack. This unit fulfills one of the goals of 'Farm and Fields' as stated two and a half years ago in the summit meeting notes.

2) The plan for things like this was communicated two and a half years ago. We have heard about it since then. Perhaps 'Farm and Fields' became a code word for fun and joy for null sec where people forgot the fighting aspects it was supposed to encourage. That the null sec people missed the fight small gangs aspect in the plan might point to a lack of communication.

3) In the May 2011 Summit Meeting Minutes 'Farms and Fields' is specifically associated with small groups of players utilizing a piece of null sec and being disabled by small gangs. It does not say anything about making isk generation more fun. Perhaps it was assumed that null sec would want to fight for their income, and that would make it more palatable to/enjoyable for players. They did talk about changing rats to be more PvP like, adding low end minerals, messing with Technetium, and removing high end ores from wormholes.

Remove small gangs and this is a straight boost of isk with the potential for generating drama. With the right setup this is defendable against those gangs meeting the 'Farms and Fields' plan. Perhaps the 'Farms and Fields' idea is bad and was made by people with "a complete lack of understanding of how null-sec personal income generation works".
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#1373 - 2014-01-17 00:28:35 UTC
Yeep wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

I understand you feel that way, but disagree with you. It is an object anyone can deploy to increase their income. To benefit from it, you must harvest it after ratting for a while. It can be harvested by hostiles, too. So you must defend it or risk losing the isk you invested in it. How is this not a farms and field concept? Just because you won't risk it (because your allies will take advantage of you if you do?) doesn't make change its fundamental nature: A farms and field device that qualifies as a small gang objective.


But it doesn't increase your income. Right now it requires someone to be guarding it 100% of the time for 10% extra bounty. For it to increase anyone's income would require 9 people ratting for every 1 person defending. There isn't a single system in the game that can support 9 people ratting profitably.

And thats assuming only one single attacker who can be beaten off by a single defender. The defensive effort increases with the number of attackers but the time to loot does not. While a single defender could concievably prevent a single interceptor from looting the ESS if you bring 2 or more attackers the defenders now have to have 20+ people ratting in a system to make it worthwhile to deploy (or 4-5 times the number even the best 0.0 system can support).


What is this, you have to defend it 100% of the time?

Scenario 1: You are part of a big alliance ratting. Hostiles enter the area and are reported on intel channels. Warp to it and hit share all bounties, and suddenly there isn't very much left in the thing for hostiles to confiscate.

Scenario 2: You are are ratting solo in the system. A hostile enters system, one of you warps to the POS, swaps to an inty, warps to the thing and the hostile has 20 seconds to stop you from hitting share all and reclaiming your bounties. Sure, they may be in an inty that can warp to it too, but they will often fail to hold you as your "button pushing" inty is certainly stabbed.

Scenario 3: A random solo neut routinely attempts to steal the loot. Next time they come into system, you surprise them with a direct counter to their ship. If they turn out to be a hotdropper, you can setup to hotdrop them back....

Scenario 4: You and 3 others are ratting in a system. One of you puts a noobship alt at zero on the beacon. If a hostile comes into system, he can instantly hit share all if anything lands on grid with the beacon.

There are plenty of ways this can work, you just have to think for 10 seconds on, "How can I reclaim those ticks".
Pelea Ming
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1374 - 2014-01-17 00:29:34 UTC
Kadl wrote:
With the right setup this is defendable against those gangs meeting the 'Farms and Fields' plan. Perhaps the 'Farms and Fields' idea is bad and was made by people with "a complete lack of understanding of how null-sec personal income generation works".

Actually, as previously pointed out, for the amount of 'farmers' vs 'defenders' ratio, this would quickly overwhelm what any system is capable of supporting for long enough to make it a viable option... unless you just plan on spending entire days farming belt rats *yawn*
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#1375 - 2014-01-17 00:31:57 UTC
Pelea Ming wrote:
Andrea Keuvo wrote:

So where might this deployable work? With some mechanics tweaks, hisec would be the perfect place for it.

Imagine you could drop one of these in a hisec mission hub or incursion system and for 1 hour it would collect 5% of all bounties/LP earned. After the hour is up the module fully onlines and becomes a warpable beacon for 15 minutes.

When you land in the site you have a faction warfare style button where as long as you are within a set range of it you collect a portion of the isk/LP pool. Everyone warping to the beacon can be shot without Concord intervention until they warp away and if you blow up a player's ship you are awarded 50% of whatever portion of the reward pool that player earned.

Just to keep things fun and more hisec noob oriented (we don't need lowsec v2.0 here) no forms of ewar or remote reps can be activated in the site and no fleet boosts/links are applied. However, once you warp to the site your ship cannot reactivate it's warp drive for 30 seconds so you are committed to the battle.

At the end of the 15 minutes any uncollected bounties/LP are automatically returned to the player who originally earned them and the process can start over if someone else onlines a different ESS. If the bounty pool expires before the 15 minutes are up the beacon goes offline, all target locks are broken, all ships in the site warp 1M km in random directions, and normal hisec aggression mechanics again apply.

Now you have a completely new conflict driver as well as opportunities for financially rewarding hisec PvP that doesn't involve griefing, ganking, wardecs, or being Falconed. Hisec players might actually have a positive PvP experience and look for ways to become further involved.

A deployable like the ESS could add content and value to the game if it is introduced into the right region of space with the right mechanics. Yes, we need farms and fields in nullsec but the ESS as it is currently designed doesn't create either. Nullsec is just not the right place for this deployable.

^^ This idea, I actually like, and approve of.


So it is ok to have one fo these collect bounties in a highsec system, but not in a nullsec system? That's hypocritical to ssay the least. (note: I actually would LOVE to see these implementable in lowsec and highsec too).
Pelea Ming
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#1376 - 2014-01-17 00:32:26 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Yeep wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

I understand you feel that way, but disagree with you. It is an object anyone can deploy to increase their income. To benefit from it, you must harvest it after ratting for a while. It can be harvested by hostiles, too. So you must defend it or risk losing the isk you invested in it. How is this not a farms and field concept? Just because you won't risk it (because your allies will take advantage of you if you do?) doesn't make change its fundamental nature: A farms and field device that qualifies as a small gang objective.


But it doesn't increase your income. Right now it requires someone to be guarding it 100% of the time for 10% extra bounty. For it to increase anyone's income would require 9 people ratting for every 1 person defending. There isn't a single system in the game that can support 9 people ratting profitably.

And thats assuming only one single attacker who can be beaten off by a single defender. The defensive effort increases with the number of attackers but the time to loot does not. While a single defender could concievably prevent a single interceptor from looting the ESS if you bring 2 or more attackers the defenders now have to have 20+ people ratting in a system to make it worthwhile to deploy (or 4-5 times the number even the best 0.0 system can support).


What is this, you have to defend it 100% of the time?

Scenario 1: You are part of a big alliance ratting. Hostiles enter the area and are reported on intel channels. Warp to it and hit share all bounties, and suddenly there isn't very much left in the thing for hostiles to confiscate.

Scenario 2: You are are ratting solo in the system. A hostile enters system, one of you warps to the POS, swaps to an inty, warps to the thing and the hostile has 20 seconds to stop you from hitting share all and reclaiming your bounties. Sure, they may be in an inty that can warp to it too, but they will often fail to hold you as your "button pushing" inty is certainly stabbed.

Scenario 3: A random solo neut routinely attempts to steal the loot. Next time they come into system, you surprise them with a direct counter to their ship. If they turn out to be a hotdropper, you can setup to hotdrop them back....

Scenario 4: You and 3 others are ratting in a system. One of you puts a noobship alt at zero on the beacon. If a hostile comes into system, he can instantly hit share all if anything lands on grid with the beacon.

There are plenty of ways this can work, you just have to think for 10 seconds on, "How can I reclaim those ticks".

considering the time investment needed to make such a small % to pay off, that sounds like a hell of alot more hassle then it's worth. Quite honestly, the only place I see this thing being regularly used is by those uber large bloc null alliances which have total lockdowns for secure isk generation systems... ie, this makes life harder for the 'nubs' and easier for the ones the nubs already have issues with.

In short, CCP is showing favoritism?
Pinky Hops
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#1377 - 2014-01-17 00:35:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Pinky Hops
Kadl wrote:
1) I am not seeing any opposition from you to the Small Mobile Siphon, Cynosural Inhibitor, or the Mobile Jump Unit. Are those all on the right track? Or perhaps at least one is a sidetrack. This unit fulfills one of the goals of 'Farm and Fields' as stated two and a half years ago in the summit meeting notes..


Oh please.

The ESS is essentially a Rube Goldberg machine. Yeah, it "fulfills it's purpose" but I think that's a pretty low standard to put on game design.

The other deployables you mentioned are comparatively direct, simple, and useful.
Ms Michigan
Aviation Professionals for EVE
#1378 - 2014-01-17 00:37:43 UTC
Meditril wrote:
Tahnil wrote:
My problem with ESS is of a different nature: I don‘t like the way it is operated. Instead of a single transaction I would prefer a gas station approach: the longer somebody tries to steal ISK from it, the more ISK he gets. For example: ESS has stored 100 million ISK, I warp to it, start "hacking", then I get one transaction (or tag, whatever) for every x seconds. For example 1 million ISK in 10 seconds. It would take a longer time to deplete the ISK pool. This would allow for defenders to form a defense fleet. At the same time it would allow the attackers to better find the "pain point" of the defenders, and force a reaction.

This is only an example. Obviously you would have to find the right formula. Maybe the structure would have to boost income much more, in order to make it attractive. And maybe this should even be a permanent feature of the iHub, not a deployable. I don‘t know.


This is an excellent improvement proposal! I second that!



I agree with this idea. The gas pump idea is a better idea.

Although I would RATHER just see the ESS as a deployable that harasses the locals like the Moon Siphon.

Much better thing to get the sand castle destroying going and people fighting over "king of the hill!"

!!!!
Yeep
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1379 - 2014-01-17 00:38:12 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

Scenario 1: You are part of a big alliance ratting. Hostiles enter the area and are reported on intel channels. Warp to it and hit share all bounties, and suddenly there isn't very much left in the thing for hostiles to confiscate.

So every time someone reports hostiles in intel I spend 5 minutes warping to my ESS and slowboating through the bubble then slowboating back and warping out again? Sounds like a great way to lose my ratting ship (and waste the 6 minutes of ratting time the 10% bounty bonus has bought me).

Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Scenario 2: You are are ratting solo in the system. A hostile enters system, one of you warps to the POS, swaps to an inty, warps to the thing and the hostile has 20 seconds to stop you from hitting share all and reclaiming your bounties. Sure, they may be in an inty that can warp to it too, but they will often fail to hold you as your "button pushing" inty is certainly stabbed.


Again, considering warp time I'm losing 2-3 minutes (or 50% of my bonus for deploying the module) and risking losing my button pushing interceptor.

Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

Scenario 3: A random solo neut routinely attempts to steal the loot. Next time they come into system, you surprise them with a direct counter to their ship. If they turn out to be a hotdropper, you can setup to hotdrop them back....

And this involves how many accounts not ratting? Sat waiting around for a returning hostile who may never come? Sounds like a great fun thing to do in a computer game.

Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

Scenario 4: You and 3 others are ratting in a system. One of you puts a noobship alt at zero on the beacon. If a hostile comes into system, he can instantly hit share all if anything lands on grid with the beacon.


Cool, so this account I'm dedicating to sitting on the beacon 100% of the time, theres no way I could use that same account to make more than the 10% extra bounties the 4 of us are hauling?
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#1380 - 2014-01-17 00:48:04 UTC
Pelea Ming wrote:

considering the time investment needed to make such a small % to pay off, that sounds like a hell of alot more hassle then it's worth. Quite honestly, the only place I see this thing being regularly used is by those uber large bloc null alliances which have total lockdowns for secure isk generation systems... ie, this makes life harder for the 'nubs' and easier for the ones the nubs already have issues with.

In short, CCP is showing favoritism?


The time investment to make a small % of pay off?
It takes you 60s to anchor this at the start of your farming session.

Anytime a hostile enters system, or when you are done ratting for the day, it takes you another 60 seconds to swap to an inty, warp on grid, and hit share all, AND scoop it to your cargo.

That's 120 seconds of your life. I'll double it in case your slow. So, in 4 minutes you make 5-10% more isk per tick. What's a good return on 4 minutes of your time? 75m isk / hour would mean this must net you 5 million isk to be worth your time. Gee, after 100 m isk in bounties, its paying that 75m isk / hr. At 200m isk in bounties, thats 150m isk per hour.

But it isn't worth your time?

And then there's the nonsense that only "large alliances" with "Secure isk generation" can benefit from this? Well, that just described half of nullsec. And the truth is, I already pointed out how a solo player could utilize this themselves. This is a straight up boon to ratting, and it is a great farms and fields device. The main animosity in this thread is from the 5% nerf to nullsec ratting that was brought up (and should be discussed independent of this module).