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Trouble finding a corp/alliance when you are a freeman (one for the GD forums)
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Karn Dulake
Doomheim
#41 - 2011-11-24 16:00:48 UTC
Embrace My Hate wrote:
To OP,

I feel as though none of your concerns can be addressed by individuals who have lead null-sec corps and alliances. It is hard to explain every single nuance to somebody who just doesn't 'get it'.

Anything short of you actually leading a corp and alliance of like minded individuals into null-sec and holding SOV will not teach you the eccentricities involved.



TL;DR OP's post is pointless and he should just go experience it first hand.




Ive lead highsec Alliances/corps (before i burned out) and there were no taxes. if people wanted to run a POS then they could off their own back.

and i already stated that SOV is different as they take a lot of paying for. please read the thread
I dont normally troll, but when i do i do it on General Discussion.
FluffyDice
Kronos Research
#42 - 2011-11-24 16:01:11 UTC
Karn Dulake wrote:
So the question is where can i find a nullsec corp of self sufficient people who will not need to take my hard earned isk for some pretty pointless reason.

You might not find one because of this "mine mine mine" attitude your carrying around.

Oh yeah ship replacement programs. You've obviously never flown in any decent fleet engagements as otherwise you might realise that alot of times it isn't an individuals fault that they died and you lived. Its simply they got called primary and you didn't. So in an ideal world your 10% pays for their ship when it happens to them and theirs pays for yours when the same happens to you.

Its a team thing. You probably wouldn't understand as you are one of those "free men."
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#43 - 2011-11-24 16:07:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
Karn Dulake wrote:
Tippia you truly have said nothing of any relevence.
Sure I have. You just haven't read it.
Quote:
you pay taxes so you dont have to worry about paying taxes.
You're still not making any sense with this claim.
Quote:
Please dont contribute anymore as your pointless posts are worthless
Which one is it?

Look, just because you can't be bothered to imagine what you want to free yourself from doesn't mean you're any more or less free than anyone else. Hell, just by thinking that you're a “freeman” because you don't pay tax means you haven't quite grasped what you're talking about. You're creating a dichotomy that doesn't exist, and as others have pointed out, the problem you're having is a completely different from the one you think you're having.

How can you even begin to claim to be “free” if you cannot even define what you want to be free from?

“Freedom” isn't even a factor.
Embrace My Hate
Bitmap Brothers
#44 - 2011-11-24 16:11:22 UTC
Karn Dulake wrote:
Embrace My Hate wrote:
To OP,

I feel as though none of your concerns can be addressed by individuals who have lead null-sec corps and alliances. It is hard to explain every single nuance to somebody who just doesn't 'get it'.

Anything short of you actually leading a corp and alliance of like minded individuals into null-sec and holding SOV will not teach you the eccentricities involved.



TL;DR OP's post is pointless and he should just go experience it first hand.




Ive lead highsec Alliances/corps (before i burned out) and there were no taxes. if people wanted to run a POS then they could off their own back.

and i already stated that SOV is different as they take a lot of paying for. please read the thread



And as I stated it is a lot more complicated than just SOV bills. SOV bills usually don't fall on the corp anyways so corp tax is in no way ever used to pay SOV bills (possible exception for renter corps). There may be related costs for the SOV hence the eccentricities/nuances involved.

Highsec corps are sometimes a poor example as a lot of them could likely run tax free. There are several corps out there just to get your tax ISK.





Karn Dulake
Doomheim
#45 - 2011-11-24 16:11:59 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Karn Dulake wrote:
Tippia you truly have said nothing of any relevence.
Sure I have. You just haven't read it.
Quote:
you pay taxes so you dont have to worry about paying taxes.
You're still not making any sense with this claim.
Quote:
Please dont contribute anymore as your pointless posts are worthless
Which one is it?

Look, just because you can't be bothered to imagine what you want to free yourself from doesn't mean you're any more or less free than anyone else. Hell, just by thinking that you're a “freeman” because you don't pay tax means you haven't quite grasped what you're talking about. You're creating a dichotomy that doesn't exist, and as others have pointed out, the problem you're having is a completely different from the one you think you're having.

How can you even begin to claim to be “free” if you cannot even define what you want to be free from?

“Freedom” isn't even a factor.



Is there anyway i can ignore this person?
I dont normally troll, but when i do i do it on General Discussion.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#46 - 2011-11-24 16:16:29 UTC
Karn Dulake wrote:
Is there anyway i can ignore this person?
Yes. Multiple ways, in fact.

But you should probably still try to define your freedom and your worries, and try to put them into practice before decrying something very freeman-like as robbing you of your freedom.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#47 - 2011-11-24 16:17:26 UTC
Sorry OP but I can't see what you see printed inside your blinkers and because of them I don't think anyone can show you what lies beyond.

As for Tipsy, they like repeating themselves in different ways until people stop finding it funny or they just give up and move to another thread.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
ed jeni
Hax.
#48 - 2011-11-24 16:19:21 UTC
Have you ever been in charge of a 0.0 corp, ?? judging by your posts it appears not.

you make the standard wrong assumption that all null corps have R64's pumping isk into corp wallet which is just Roll

a good and well placed null corp within a good alliance will be paying around 250mil/month in sov bills
in addition to this add around a bil for TCU/SBU, and system upgrades for ratting/mining etc
a well placed logistical network will need jump bridges/fuel so add around 250mil/month for these
factor in a couple of pos's with modules and fuel
a few corp offices located at losec for pilots to move around easier.
corp jump freighters at 5bil each plus jump fuel/cynos to move pilots assets in and move there **** out
corp carriers to move fitted ships in,
corp supplied logistic fleets guardians etc for corp roams and CTA's

so tbh 10% taxation to pay for the above and provide basic services for corp members is a minimum req, if you wanna live in null as a corp with no taxation, i cant see you surviving very long.
FluffyDice
Kronos Research
#49 - 2011-11-24 16:20:41 UTC
Karn Dulake wrote:


Is there anyway i can ignore this person?

Yes.

Also could you be any more smug without throwing out the balance of just how ******** you are?
Sentient Blade
Crisis Atmosphere
Coalition of the Unfortunate
#50 - 2011-11-24 16:23:46 UTC
If you're not willing to contribute to the team then you're not a person that I, or most other CEOs, would want in their corporation.

That 10 or 15% may very well go towards buying a new player their first Caracal or Drake, and some skill books, which might then make that player feel welcome enough to continue to play the game and stay with your corp, which may then get wardeced.

Then maybe, just maybe, that new player who your all-so-important 10% helped to get a foothold in the game, will ride to the rescue and save your sorry ass and its "me me me" attitude from being blown to sh*t by an attacking force who actually choose to work as a team.

Or maybe you'll just have some friends to mine and mission with.

In short - if you're not willing to sacrifice even a token amount for the benefit of others then this is the wrong game for you.
sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade
Ghost Legion.
#51 - 2011-11-24 16:24:49 UTC
There is a corp in Amarr FW that I believe is still running a 0 tax rate corp. The name escapes me atm but ask in Warfare. There MO, is log in when you want, undock and shoot anyone not purple or blue. Unless warrented.

Don't ask about Italics, just tilt your head.
Baaldor
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#52 - 2011-11-24 16:29:13 UTC
Sentient Blade wrote:
If you're not willing to contribute to the team then you're not a person that I, or most other CEOs, would want in their corporation.

That 10 or 15% may very well go towards buying a new player their first Caracal or Drake, and some skill books, which might then make that player feel welcome enough to continue to play the game and stay with your corp, which may then get wardeced.



this
Pinaculus
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2011-11-24 16:31:24 UTC
If you like research or manufacturing then your worries are probably going to be about BPOs and POS fuel. Group efforts and pooled resources make these less bothersome.

If you like PVP then your worries will be about replacing ships.

If you like running Incursions, then your worries will be about replacing REALLY EXPENSIVE ships.

If you like the trade/market game, then your worries will be about cobbling together enough capital to move the market one direction or another (I guess).

If you like running wormholes then you'll be worried about trustworthy companions to not rob you blind, on top of really expensive ship replacement, on top of POS management.

Whatever is a PITA for one person is usually less of a PITA for multiple people.

That's what Tippia was talking about.

If you worry about paying taxes, and just want to solo farm missions....make a 1-man corp w/ zero percent taxes. DONE!

I know sometimes it's difficult to realize just how much you spend on incidental things each month or year, but seriously, EVE is very cheap entertainment compared to most things... If you are a smoker, smoke one less pack a week and pay for EVE, with money left over to pick up a cheap bundle of flowers for the EVE widow upstairs.
Karn Dulake
Doomheim
#54 - 2011-11-24 16:31:53 UTC
FluffyDice wrote:
Karn Dulake wrote:


Is there anyway i can ignore this person?

Yes.

Also could you be any more smug without throwing out the balance of just how ******** you are?




+1 from me. i laughed my ass of when i read this.


To a few other people. Please read before you get all upset. I said that this did not cover SOV
I dont normally troll, but when i do i do it on General Discussion.
Baaldor
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#55 - 2011-11-24 16:35:58 UTC
Karn Dulake wrote:

To a few other people. Please read before you get all upset. I said that this did not cover SOV


And I responded to you, not addressing SOV.
Karn Dulake
Doomheim
#56 - 2011-11-24 16:36:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Karn Dulake
Pinaculus wrote:
If you like research or manufacturing then your worries are probably going to be about BPOs and POS fuel. Group efforts and pooled resources make these less bothersome.

If you like PVP then your worries will be about replacing ships.

If you like running Incursions, then your worries will be about replacing REALLY EXPENSIVE ships.

If you like the trade/market game, then your worries will be about cobbling together enough capital to move the market one direction or another (I guess).

If you like running wormholes then you'll be worried about trustworthy companions to not rob you blind, on top of really expensive ship replacement, on top of POS management.

Whatever is a PITA for one person is usually less of a PITA for multiple people.

That's what Tippia was talking about.

If you worry about paying taxes, and just want to solo farm missions....make a 1-man corp w/ zero percent taxes. DONE!



Thank you for this and its insightful but i have to say just a few things

PVP you replace your own ships

Incursions you replace your own ships

Market games are normally done by individuals and not very often on behalf of a corp/alliance

People Buy there own BPOS. if the corp buys a BPO then it belongs to the CEO as when you leave you cant take it with you if you ever decide to.


WHs are on the money. you do need a percentage taken out to pay for the upkeeep of a group POS in nullsec
I dont normally troll, but when i do i do it on General Discussion.
FluffyDice
Kronos Research
#57 - 2011-11-24 16:43:17 UTC
If your sly enough you take the BPO's with you Pirate
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#58 - 2011-11-24 17:02:07 UTC
Karn Dulake wrote:

PVP you replace your own ships
Incursions you replace your own ships
Market games are normally done by individuals and not very often on behalf of a corp/alliance
People Buy there own BPOS. if the corp buys a BPO then it belongs to the CEO as when you leave you cant take it with you if you ever decide to.

…and this is why you need to try it. You just described a number of needless limitations to you game that you wouldn't have to worry about, and withou which you'd be more free to play the game you wanted to play. You're alse quite wrong about those last few points.

Again, what you're talking about is not a matter of freedom — it's misanthropy.
Molly Molotov
Doomheim
#59 - 2011-11-24 17:02:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Molly Molotov
I understand where you're coming from OP. You must realize however that the corp and alliance leaders are bourgeoisie themselves and is it not their function to use the more brutish, slow and dirty people beneath them? I use that term (bourgeoisie) is the best possible light seeing how the idea itself has been dragged through the mud in the past and indeed still is. As if there was some shame in properly tending to the lower people and utilizing them with efficiency in mind?

The higher life can indeed be a lonely one OP especially at first but in time you will learn to take pleasure in moving your servants around like chess pieces and eventually you will meet other free people through your endeavors.

I am not entirely convinced that there exists corps and alliances available for freeman as you inevitably and invariably will find yourself under some type of control or manipulation by a person you have submitted to and made your better.

Throughout everything always find amusement and delight in the plight of the serfs for they really are at the core of things not as pathetic and detestable as they may seem. They are just a very, very simple people who were born to be controlled and really... the world needs people light that.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#60 - 2011-11-24 17:10:24 UTC
Molly Molotov wrote:

Throughout everything always find amusement and delight in the plight of the serfs for they really are at the core of things not as pathetic and detestable as they may seem. They are just a very, very simple people who were born to be controlled and really... the world needs people light that.

The true amusement lies in seeing people call themselves “freemen" without them understanding that this is just another form of serfdom. Lol