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What would happen if CCP finally nerfed hisec?

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Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#901 - 2014-01-16 17:14:58 UTC
@Pinky

Because it's not about delivery.

The entire argument isn't about delivery, they can do that themselves.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Pinky Hops
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#902 - 2014-01-16 17:27:09 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
@Pinky

Because it's not about delivery.

The entire argument isn't about delivery, they can do that themselves.


What?

Clearly you have never been involved with the industrial aspect of EVE.

Manufacturing inherently involves delivery. You can't avoid it. I don't know any serious manufacturers that don't spend time hauling stuff around.

It's the general idea that nullsec == Somalia in the way people behave towards everybody else.

If you try to make stuff, deliver stuff, mine stuff, anything at all positive for the local market in nullsec....You will be targeted and you will be blown up.

So really, it's just a reflection on the way people behave in null.
Notorious Fellon
#903 - 2014-01-16 17:31:37 UTC
Classic case of how some bratty children cry when they poop in their own sandbox.

What's wrong? Your sandbox is full of poop? So fix it. You have the power to do that. Or you can play in the poop.

Crime, it is not a "career", it is a lifestyle.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#904 - 2014-01-16 17:33:11 UTC
Pinky Hops wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
@Pinky

Because it's not about delivery.

The entire argument isn't about delivery, they can do that themselves.


What?

Clearly you have never been involved with the industrial aspect of EVE.


Depends on if you count blowing up and/or stealing their stuff. I nailed a "small highsec indy corp" (as they called themselves) for just shy of a billion isk worth of BPOs in a corp theft early last month.

Oh, and my point is self evident.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#905 - 2014-01-16 17:36:28 UTC
Pinky Hops wrote:
A lot of what he says makes a lot of of sense, if you actually read it.

no, it doesn't
nullsec is not ~the frontier where manufacturing sucks because REALITY you guys~ it's where you're supposed to be able to make your own place to live
and no **** pirates shoot outsiders we don't want you around
Pinky Hops
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#906 - 2014-01-16 17:37:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Pinky Hops
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Depends on if you count blowing up and/or stealing their stuff. I nailed a "small highsec indy corp" (as they called themselves) for just shy of a billion isk worth of BPOs in a corp theft early last month.

Oh, and my point is self evident.


That would be PvP. not industry, and your point makes no sense.

You can't do industry without hauling stuff. So if even making /deliveries/ to nullsec is a slow, arduous process fought with people trying to kill you - it shouldn't surprise you at all that people aren't exactly lining up to do industry there.

Comprende?

Benny Ohu wrote:
Pinky Hops wrote:
A lot of what he says makes a lot of of sense, if you actually read it.

no, it doesn't
nullsec is not ~the frontier where manufacturing sucks because REALITY you guys~ it's where you're supposed to be able to make your own place to live
and no **** pirates shoot outsiders we don't want you around


Read rest of the post before you respond.

I gave you an actual example of an actual person playing the actual game, rather than just make stuff up and declare things impossible for whatever reason.

(and they obviously did want him around by proxy -- they were buying the things he put up on the market)

Notorious Fellon wrote:
Classic case of how some bratty children cry when they poop in their own sandbox.

What's wrong? Your sandbox is full of poop? So fix it. You have the power to do that. Or you can play in the poop.


hahahahah

Big smile
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#907 - 2014-01-16 17:42:18 UTC
Pinky Hops wrote:
If you try to make stuff, deliver stuff, mine stuff, anything at all positive for the local market in nullsec....You will be targeted and you will be blown up.

industrialists do not get shot

industrialists who are outsiders get shot
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#908 - 2014-01-16 17:47:13 UTC
Pinky Hops wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
Pinky Hops wrote:
A lot of what he says makes a lot of of sense, if you actually read it.

no, it doesn't
nullsec is not ~the frontier where manufacturing sucks because REALITY you guys~ it's where you're supposed to be able to make your own place to live
and no **** pirates shoot outsiders we don't want you around


Read rest of the post before you respond.

I gave you an actual example of an actual person playing the actual game, rather than just make stuff up and declare things impossible for whatever reason.

(and they obviously did want him around by proxy -- they were buying the things he put up on the market)

maybe the idiot should have negotiated blue standings

it's not like using black frog is hard for an alliance member. their cynos are blue to most people

also alliances have their own damn importers
Pinky Hops
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#909 - 2014-01-16 17:48:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Pinky Hops
Benny Ohu wrote:
Pinky Hops wrote:
If you try to make stuff, deliver stuff, mine stuff, anything at all positive for the local market in nullsec....You will be targeted and you will be blown up.

industrialists do not get shot

industrialists who are outsiders get shot


And you answered your own question of why there aren't many industrialists in nullsec.

For industry to be profitable (and that is the point) you need a massive market and massive volume.

When you sell in Jita, you can literally sell to virtually every alliance or group in the entire game at the same time. When you sell in some nullsec "hub" the volume is a tiny fraction, drastically reducing what you can profitably sell and how much of it.

You basically would just get pigeonholed into making the same doctrine fleet items over and over, and probably at some "special deal" to "help the alliance." Roll

For nullsec to be profitable, you literally need to be able to sell to a huge chunk of nullsec all at once. Which is why that guy I told you about who was seeding stations was targeting MANY stations, with selective groupings of items.

If he had just tried to dump his whole load at a singular "hub" station in nullsec, he wouldn't have made **** all.

You have to move tons of volume.

Have you ever done industry?
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#910 - 2014-01-16 18:00:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Benny Ohu
christ on a bike

the complaint is not 'people won't deliver stuff from jita'

alliances can deliver their own stuff just fine

e: this was already explained to you. repeatedly.
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#911 - 2014-01-16 18:02:01 UTC
Notorious Fellon wrote:
Classic case of how some bratty children cry when they poop in their own sandbox.

What's wrong? Your sandbox is full of poop? So fix it. You have the power to do that. Or you can play in the poop.



This brought tears to my eyes I was laughing so hard.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
Pinky Hops
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#912 - 2014-01-16 18:04:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Pinky Hops
Benny Ohu wrote:
christ on a bike

the complaint is not 'people won't deliver stuff from jita'

alliances can deliver their own stuff just fine

e: this was already explained to you. repeatedly.


and it was already explained to you several times that there is no industry without hauling.

the two aren't separate.

when you "do industry" you make a shitload of stuff, and then you need to sell it. where you sell it is almost NEVER in the system where you made it.

and it's highly unlikely that it will be profitable to sell exclusively to just your own alliance, as it will heavily restrict your choices on what you can profitably make....does CFC haul their overstock directly to N3 to sell it? I doubt it.

again, have you ever done industry in this game?
ZynnLee Akkori
Perkone
Caldari State
#913 - 2014-01-17 01:24:22 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
Pinky Hops wrote:
If you try to make stuff, deliver stuff, mine stuff, anything at all positive for the local market in nullsec....You will be targeted and you will be blown up.

industrialists do not get shot

industrialists who are outsiders get shot

How's that working out for ya? Oh, right, 40+ pages.....
Maybe you're doing it wrong?
ZynnLee Akkori
Perkone
Caldari State
#914 - 2014-01-17 01:30:55 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
christ on a bike

the complaint is not 'people won't deliver stuff from jita'

alliances can deliver their own stuff just fine

e: this was already explained to you. repeatedly.

Repeatedly click on the little icon that represents "previous page" about 47 times to get an idea of why nullsec alliances apparently aren't really hauling very effectively. What many of us are trying to say is that there are highsec players like me who would gladly take your ISK by selling you stuff you need in stations in nullsec. I could be in a freighter in a week or two, and if I could make a handfull-million ISK or so for a 30 or so round trip jump into Null, I would do it.

As for the 'negotiated-blue' thing? How does that work? I suspect it would involve handing over my ISK at the very least. I don't need nullsec sales enough to justify paying ransom to get mostly un-hassled passage into null.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#915 - 2014-01-17 01:31:50 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
christ on a bike

the complaint is not 'people won't deliver stuff from jita'

alliances can deliver their own stuff just fine

e: this was already explained to you. repeatedly.


They can't get over the mental wall of someone making something to actually use it, not to sell it for profit.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#916 - 2014-01-17 01:53:15 UTC
I see this thread is still going strong.

46 wasted pages of angry people typing angry stuff.

Most of it incoherent and unintelligible drivel.

I'm certainly glad I did not take the time to read any of it.

I suppose I can just sum it up your argument for you:

People are mad because they don't like how other people play the game. They think they deserve more money because they are a better player simply for the fact they got an alliance to accept their sorry self or rent to even sorrier people. They lack critical thinking to understand how the game works and lack basic human empathy to understand other people have needs too.

Anyways, null sec is a bunch of bull malarky and filled with brown nose sycophants who play meta games so they can pad their kill boards with 50 on 1 engagements.

Worm holes are where real men live. Especially those who solo with their alts.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
Pinky Hops
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#917 - 2014-01-17 01:55:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Pinky Hops
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Benny Ohu wrote:
christ on a bike

the complaint is not 'people won't deliver stuff from jita'

alliances can deliver their own stuff just fine

e: this was already explained to you. repeatedly.


They can't get over the mental wall of someone making something to actually use it, not to sell it for profit.



Because it's a longstanding fact from the experience of all industrialists that if you don't manufacture at a profit - you are a failure and you will cease to be able to run a sustainable manufacturing line.

Basically if you can't pull a profit by just straight buying the materials and selling the end result at a positive -- you didn't add value and thus failed.

You can't manufacture at a loss forever and justify it by "just needing the modules to use yourself."

I mean don't get me wrong -- that's adorable! It is not however, something that feasibly works long term.

Or perhaps you enjoy mining 25m isk/hour in materials, until you have 200m isk in materials. Then you manufacture them into product, and sell your product for 175m! (Or use your product worth 175m - whichever perspective you prefer. Either way, you reduced value.)

It doesn't matter though, it was "free" ISK, right?

(Hint: most of the really successful industrialists no longer mine at all. They just run tight books, and the only reason they continue to manufacture is that they can do so at a profit. If they run at a loss - they don't get to manufacture anymore...They wouldn't be able to afford to buy new input materials...Is this so hard to understand?)
Renegade Heart
Doomheim
#918 - 2014-01-17 02:04:28 UTC
If all high sec, away from the undock of stations, and away from the gates, were to become as low sec, then I think that EvE might be a better place.
EI Digin
irc.zulusquad.org
#919 - 2014-01-17 02:33:19 UTC
Pinky Hops wrote:
Have you ever done industry?


Have you ever lived in nullsec?
SmilingVagrant
Doomheim
#920 - 2014-01-17 02:37:07 UTC
I have!