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Dev blog: More Deployables from Super Friends

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Almethea
Trans Stellar Express
#1081 - 2014-01-16 11:23:43 UTC
"null sec bearz tears...best tears"

there's so many thing to fix in eve.... and they fix forum ! GJ! but ok i like it !

CCP Fozzie : AFK cloaking, however, is an entirely social form of power
Wulfy Johnson
NorCorp Security
#1082 - 2014-01-16 11:24:22 UTC
Come to think of it, this is not just a 5% blanket nerf to ratting income, it`s also a 5% blanket nerf to corporation incomes as well since ratting and and poco income pretty much everything CCP has managed to deliver in that department.
Isbariya
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1083 - 2014-01-16 11:31:39 UTC
So here is an idea, all employees will get a salary reduction by 5% because Hilmar thinks he's paying you too much for the crap you come up with. But you are now alloed to place an ESS in your lobby, naturally thisreduces your salary by another 15%. But the full 20% that have been taken off your salary will the be transfered to the ESS. As a boni, if the subscription number have risen, you might get 5% extra, aint that great ? But of course there's a catch, those 20-25% can either be distributed to all employees equally or anyone who enters the building can say, nah the calculation is incorrect, give me a blanko check and I'lldistribute it correctly. Of course everyone will have a tiny LED at his monitor that indicates that someone is entering the lobby, you now have 40sec to get off your desk and run to the lobby, have fun. On a sidenote, the lobby is free of any juristriction, so you could be shot there.

So, all in favor ? Besides, did I mention that that check can be claimed by everyone, even those not working for CCP ?
Gorski Car
#1084 - 2014-01-16 11:33:40 UTC
What kind of retards still rat in 0.0?

Collect this post
Wulfy Johnson
NorCorp Security
#1085 - 2014-01-16 11:37:42 UTC
Gorski Car wrote:
What kind of retards still rat in 0.0?


You do..
GeeShizzle MacCloud
#1086 - 2014-01-16 11:40:38 UTC
Wulfy Johnson wrote:
Gorski Car wrote:
What kind of retards still rat in 0.0?


You do..


he doesnt, none of PL do. see my previous post.
gascanu
Bearing Srl.
#1087 - 2014-01-16 11:45:59 UTC  |  Edited by: gascanu
now, regarding all this "mobile structures" fever that seems ccp have it, wth happent to your promises of fixing poses and 0.0 sov? why do you spend this much effort and time to some "uncertain" improvements instead of keeping your promises and fix th broken things first?
you guys just added 3 of them and some already need tweaks; now you want to add 3 more?

regarding this ESS, the ideea it\s not bad; but you had to rush it, and a good idea become a bad thing;

first, the timers are too short: 40" to take the isk from it? really? who the hell will be able to react that fast?
you want ppl to defend the thing but you gave them no time to react to? 40" is STUPID, why will i go in anything else that an inty if taking the isk is so easy? and how the hell moving most of the roamers in inty is a good thing? is thinking so hard?

like some pppl already posted, increse the bonus to 110% , and if you are worried about inflation, link the ess with concord or other lp store; give it a 2-5' timer to take the isk if you are blue and a 10' timer if you are neutral: that should generate some fights

also: how will those ess affect 0.0 npc space? will they lower the bounty to npcs in 0.0 missions?
dantes inferno
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1088 - 2014-01-16 11:53:17 UTC
Isbariya wrote:
So here is an idea, all employees will get a salary reduction by 5% because Hilmar thinks he's paying you too much for the crap you come up with. But you are now alloed to place an ESS in your lobby, naturally thisreduces your salary by another 15%. But the full 20% that have been taken off your salary will the be transfered to the ESS. As a boni, if the subscription number have risen, you might get 5% extra, aint that great ? But of course there's a catch, those 20-25% can either be distributed to all employees equally or anyone who enters the building can say, nah the calculation is incorrect, give me a blanko check and I'lldistribute it correctly. Of course everyone will have a tiny LED at his monitor that indicates that someone is entering the lobby, you now have 40sec to get off your desk and run to the lobby, have fun. On a sidenote, the lobby is free of any juristriction, so you could be shot there.

So, all in favor ? Besides, did I mention that that check can be claimed by everyone, even those not working for CCP ?


ahahahahah


Seriously, this is a stupid idea...listen to your customer CCP, stop making our life in 0.0 harder every patch....
pipin meh
NED-Clan
#1089 - 2014-01-16 11:57:42 UTC
Isbariya wrote:
So here is an idea, all employees will get a salary reduction by 5% because Hilmar thinks he's paying you too much for the crap you come up with. But you are now alloed to place an ESS in your lobby, naturally thisreduces your salary by another 15%. But the full 20% that have been taken off your salary will the be transfered to the ESS. As a boni, if the subscription number have risen, you might get 5% extra, aint that great ? But of course there's a catch, those 20-25% can either be distributed to all employees equally or anyone who enters the building can say, nah the calculation is incorrect, give me a blanko check and I'lldistribute it correctly. Of course everyone will have a tiny LED at his monitor that indicates that someone is entering the lobby, you now have 40sec to get off your desk and run to the lobby, have fun. On a sidenote, the lobby is free of any juristriction, so you could be shot there.

So, all in favor ? Besides, did I mention that that check can be claimed by everyone, even those not working for CCP ?



You sir.. are a hero
gascanu
Bearing Srl.
#1090 - 2014-01-16 12:05:13 UTC
Isbariya wrote:
So here is an idea, all employees will get a salary reduction by 5% because Hilmar thinks he's paying you too much for the crap you come up with. But you are now alloed to place an ESS in your lobby, naturally thisreduces your salary by another 15%. But the full 20% that have been taken off your salary will the be transfered to the ESS. As a boni, if the subscription number have risen, you might get 5% extra, aint that great ? But of course there's a catch, those 20-25% can either be distributed to all employees equally or anyone who enters the building can say, nah the calculation is incorrect, give me a blanko check and I'lldistribute it correctly. Of course everyone will have a tiny LED at his monitor that indicates that someone is entering the lobby, you now have 40sec to get off your desk and run to the lobby, have fun. On a sidenote, the lobby is free of any juristriction, so you could be shot there.

So, all in favor ? Besides, did I mention that that check can be claimed by everyone, even those not working for CCP ?



you sir just made my day Lol
Dominionix
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1091 - 2014-01-16 12:05:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Dominionix
Isbariya wrote:
So here is an idea, all employees will get a salary reduction by 5% because Hilmar thinks he's paying you too much for the crap you come up with. But you are now alloed to place an ESS in your lobby, naturally thisreduces your salary by another 15%. But the full 20% that have been taken off your salary will the be transfered to the ESS. As a boni, if the subscription number have risen, you might get 5% extra, aint that great ? But of course there's a catch, those 20-25% can either be distributed to all employees equally or anyone who enters the building can say, nah the calculation is incorrect, give me a blanko check and I'lldistribute it correctly. Of course everyone will have a tiny LED at his monitor that indicates that someone is entering the lobby, you now have 40sec to get off your desk and run to the lobby, have fun. On a sidenote, the lobby is free of any juristriction, so you could be shot there.

So, all in favor ? Besides, did I mention that that check can be claimed by everyone, even those not working for CCP ?


This is pretty much the best summary of this absolutely ridiculous idea for a deployable. Another nerf to nullsec passively generated alliance income, and a module which is far more likely to cause drama and upset amongst it's users than actually provide them a benefit. On this basis, I expect most nullsec entities will simply ban the use of the deployable, meaning it just becomes a blanket nerf of 5% to personal income, and a smaller percentage to alliance level income.

So about that "fields and farms" concept CCP wanted to introduce, how's that going for you...?

To try and be at least a little bit constructive: Remove the 5% nerf, grant the potential for a small (2 - 5%?) increase to income without any sacrifice to existing bounty payments, and increase the timers to 5 minutes, if not more. Now you have a deployable that is beneficial to people in nullsec, they have nothing to lose by using it, a reason to want to protect it, and a possible generator for small gang PvP.

Or alternatively, just scrap the concept in it's entirety (which is honestly probably the best option) and go back to the drawing board with the question "what actually generates conflict in 0.0 space?".

Edit: If your goal here is in fact not to drive small gang level conflict at all, and instead reduce the rate at which ISK is introduced to the game, then null sec (where the risk vs reward ratio is fairly high on the risk side) is not what needs to be looked at, but rather the massive high sec income sources (incursions, level 4 missions etc) that carry little or no risk, and generate zero conflict.
Muffet McStrudel
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#1092 - 2014-01-16 12:07:31 UTC
If CCP is so concerned about the introduction of isk inflation in the game then why:

1) Do they not limit the number of players that can join the server?
2) Allow the purchase of in-game isk with real cash?

Seems to me if you want to limit inflation, then you need to limit the ability to create isk out of nothing, which purchasing PLEX allows one to do.

Oh wait, I think we all know why this won't happen ...

Seems to me CCP wants to push more people to purchase PLEX or a subscription. Say it ain't so, greedy capitalistic forces at work again.
Rodasta Dius
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1093 - 2014-01-16 12:08:58 UTC
How much cargo space those one ESS unit contain (hom much m3?)
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#1094 - 2014-01-16 12:09:28 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
Whatever. I'm looking forward to the possibility of having more fights in null and if a measly 5% reduction causes some people to move to high sec, who cares? It's not like these people are adding anything to the game anyway.

Alliances will probably have to group together a bit more instead of being spread too thin and then maybe they will be more willing to use these things and fight for them.

Hopefully after all these deployables are done, CCP will improve sov and add more risky but beneficial forms of PVE like we have in wormhole space.


a) You won't be getting more fights, because no one will be using them.

b) A fully upgraded -1.0 sec system supports ~5 people, any more and you lose a lot of income due to site spawn rates / occupancy. You'll lose more than 5% trying to group up to recoup the 5% ... so, no one will do this.

c) WH PVE is the lowest risk of anywhere outside of highsec. And before you say, 'abloobloo no local' - I'd happily use a deployable that removed local as a consequence of letting you jump an orca through a gate a few times and making it disappear, and any new stargates are clearly announced by new sigs.

This whole thing is a bad idea at the core concept of it, and even in some scenario where they revert the 95% nonsense it's still more effort to use than any possible gain covers.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#1095 - 2014-01-16 12:13:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Khanh'rhh
Also, Soniclover, of course the amount of ISK pouring out of nullsec bounties is very high in comparison, since it's the faucet that balances the LP sinks that dominate other income streams (Missions / incursions). The way you can get a handle on this is by tweaking the rewards from incursions / missions to increase the ISK sink via LP. Dialing down the bounties has a 1:1 effect on 0.0 income, which is the wrong side to tweak it from.
Doing this means you don't need shift the balance between the two to try to control a problem that doesn't (yet) exist.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

FistyMcBumBasher
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1096 - 2014-01-16 12:14:03 UTC
Contrary to many of the other posters in this thread, I actually like this idea. It has the ability to create content and drive conflict when deployed both offensively and defensively. It can even function as an anti botting mechanism.

Offensively it allows those 'AFK cloakers' in system to do something other than being AFK. Dropping one of these in system will get the inhabitants to either stay docked, continue ratting and trust each other to divide up the bounties, or kill the ESS.

If they stay docked, business as usual

If they continue ratting and divide up the bonus bounties they will have to warp to the ESS, which alerts the whole system, puts them in a bubble, and takes 20 seconds to access the contents. This is plenty of time for a covert ops ship to de-cloak and activate an aggressive module. On top of this, they have to trust each other to not take all of the loot. So far this is looking like a pretty good conflict driver.

If they decide to kill this structure (which has the EHP of a battleship), the system is alerted, and the aggressors are then able to make their move.

As a defensive structure, it takes 60 seconds to print the tags out for yourself (20s to access and 40s to print). This will allow more than enough time for the 'owners' of the system to reship and warp to the ESS to defend their hard earned income.

As an anti-botting mechanic this thing is ingenious. It will increase the difficulty of botting, throw in some player countermeasures, and make the botter return to their computer in order to kill a hostile ESS.

I for one am looking forward to Rubicon 1.1.

TLDR: Stop being so scared of change.
Random Woman
Very Professional Corporation
#1097 - 2014-01-16 12:14:48 UTC
This thread is pure gold... just saying.

The 0.0 elite should just move to w-space, there that incredible 5% income nerf wont hit em.

And from what i am reading they are in incredible constant danger now, so moving anywhere but into that dead end 0.0 system with 20 scouts down the pipe and 500 km worth of bubbels on every gate, will lead to absolute safety and riches.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#1098 - 2014-01-16 12:18:28 UTC
Muffet McStrudel wrote:
If CCP is so concerned about the introduction of isk inflation in the game then why:

1) Do they not limit the number of players that can join the server?
2) Allow the purchase of in-game isk with real cash?

Seems to me if you want to limit inflation, then you need to limit the ability to create isk out of nothing, which purchasing PLEX allows one to do.
PLEX does not allow you to create ISK out of nothing, and reducing the numbers wouldn't matter — it's a relative measurement anyway and reducing the number of people just makes the absolutes smaller while the relative numbers stay the same.

…and since they've gone back on the inflation problem, it doesn't matter anyway. Now, it's just a pointless nerf.
Andrea Keuvo
Rusty Pricks
#1099 - 2014-01-16 12:19:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Andrea Keuvo
Khanh'rhh wrote:
Rek Seven wrote:
Whatever. I'm looking forward to the possibility of having more fights in null and if a measly 5% reduction causes some people to move to high sec, who cares? It's not like these people are adding anything to the game anyway.

Alliances will probably have to group together a bit more instead of being spread too thin and then maybe they will be more willing to use these things and fight for them.

Hopefully after all these deployables are done, CCP will improve sov and add more risky but beneficial forms of PVE like we have in wormhole space.


a) You won't be getting more fights, because no one will be using them.

b) A fully upgraded -1.0 sec system supports ~5 people, any more and you lose a lot of income due to site spawn rates / occupancy. You'll lose more than 5% trying to group up to recoup the 5% ... so, no one will do this.


^ This. Don't forget that most of nullsec, especially renter space, is a vast spaceghetto made up of -0.1 to -0.4 space. In these areas it is even worse, they can support 1, maybe 2 people ratting. Any more than that and you are below level 4 mission income. If you really expect the one active person in a PvE ship to deploy and defend an ESS when a 10 man roaming fleet in PvP ships with a proper FC could show up at any time to rob it then you are so ignorant of 0.0 life/mechanics that it is a waste of time to even have a discussion. Not to mention that with only 1-2 people ratting it is impossible for this ESS to pay a proper return on the risk in a reasonable amount of time.

This module is one of two things:

1. if the 5% income reduction remains on the TQ release it is a module which will never be used and results in a 5% income nerf to all nullsec ratters.

2. if the 5% income reduction is removed on the TQ release it is a module which will never be used and was just a waste of dev time

Both are bad options, but option 2 is the less bad one.

Edit: nullsec alliance leaders already have enough headaches herding cats and will just outright ban the deployment of these by their members. Nobody wants their mailboxes filled with complaints because Joe Spaceprick logged on and looted the ESS that had been active all day. How many ways do nullsec residents have to say it? THESE MODULES WILL NEVER BE USED
Shux Legion
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#1100 - 2014-01-16 12:19:47 UTC
Can't you just tax the top 1% or 10% more like the rest of the real world does?

Daily tax for anyone in a Supercap.

Null ratting is for the blue collar folks just trying to make a living you bourgeoisie pricks.