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ESS Discussion Thread

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March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#201 - 2014-01-16 11:05:17 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
Batelle wrote:
Of course they dont like it. It represents a direct nerf to their income and a whole new mechanic for blues to get butthurt at other blues.

Its fantastic.

It's an unnecessary risk though in which it's considerably easier to lose more than you stand to gain when you try to take advantage of it. At the very least the amount put at risk should be the same as what you stand to gain and furthermore probably shouldn't be a defacto loss for not participating.

Lore wise it still doesn't make sense to me.

actually this is what Eve is about.
Example: you run lvl4 in battleship.
- you win: you get 25-30 million ISK from mission rewards
- you lose: you lose like 200 million ISK just from ship itself

Tyberius Franklin wrote:
I mean logically you would think concord would be happy capsuleers were roughing up pirates where they live rather than letting them build strength and further disrupt the empires.

logically i don't see any reasons to CONCORD to pay for killing pirates in deep ass of space where there is no CONCORD and empires.....
logically i don't see any reasons in paying CONCORD for having your name of system in SOV space.
.....

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
illirdor
Upper Class Goat
#202 - 2014-01-16 11:09:25 UTC
Dave Stark wrote:
illirdor wrote:
im soooooo gonna fly around and dropping this baby just to **** ppl off XD


but you can't deploy them in high sec...

awwwww really ?? well im gonna have to settle with null then to bad they dont whine...

Soooo this is my sig.... 
Tauranon
Weeesearch
CAStabouts
#203 - 2014-01-16 11:13:39 UTC
tiberiusric wrote:
Tippia wrote:
tiberiusric wrote:
mate, look the bounties in nullsec are far far higher in nullsec than lowsec or highsec.
I think you may be confusing the difference in bounties between different ships with some assumed difference between sec levels.

The latter does not exist; the former does.


Not sure what your actual point is. The fact is a BS rat bounty in nullsec for example is far higher than in high or nullsec. The sec status is not relevant per say as its relative to how eve works whether in high/low/null. Bounty gets higher the lower the sec level becomes. so in a 1.0 system it will be lower than a 0.5 system relatively speaking but thats still in the high sec band. You would be hard pressed to find a 1.85Mill BS rat in highsec

But i do agree actual anom rats bounties in nullsec is wrong, they should be the same as the belt rat bounties, otherwise why bother. Unless your thinking about getting the juicy BPC or goodies at the end of the DED anomoly which then may balance it out a bit. However normal anoms dont give juicy goodies at the end of it and the bounties are still crap so they should raise them to be the same as the belt rats imo if they want to introduce the ESS


You make 0 isk in warp. A sanctum spawns 40m of isk in the one spot. A good belt spawn is a triple 1.8.

In any case, as has been pointed out ad infinitum in many threads, most of null is flyover country, and has belts that spawn veldspar to hedbergdite and cruisers with the odd double 500k battleship. I have such a system.

Also note that in 634 anomalies completed, its spawned a grand total of 5 faction commanders, and it 100% reliably escalates into hostile space.

Everyone that suggests that we all huddle in the 3 systems in PBLRD Vale that have decent truesec is entirely missing the point (ie that this debate is literally comparing the best 5% of null systems to highsec, not the worst 80%).
Decian Cor
Stronghelm Corporation
Solyaris Chtonium
#204 - 2014-01-16 11:17:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Decian Cor
I can't believe this *E-peen* measuring contest thread is already 11 pages long.

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baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#205 - 2014-01-16 12:08:35 UTC
Decian Cor wrote:
I can't believe this *E-peen* measuring contest thread is already 11 pages long.


This is a wakeup call to CCP that Null has been nerfed into the ground and cannot take any more nerfs to income.

There is zero reason to make isk out here now, highsec is simply better.
Erin Crawford
#206 - 2014-01-16 12:10:39 UTC
Decian Cor wrote:
I can't believe this *E-peen* measuring contest thread is already 11 pages long.


Indeed!

And the launcher images doesn't say EvE Rubicon "Now live" anymore, instead it says "THERE'S NO TURNING BACK."
i guess that's a hint.
Roll

"Those who talk don’t know. Those who know don’t talk. "
Dave Stark
#207 - 2014-01-16 12:14:32 UTC
maybe they should have let players build stargates to new places before beating them out of null with the nerf bat...
TigerXtrm
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#208 - 2014-01-16 12:33:09 UTC
There are no better tears than null sec tears. The fact that almost every major alliance is crying and whining over this means it was a great idea.

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Dave Stark
#209 - 2014-01-16 12:35:49 UTC
TigerXtrm wrote:
There are no better tears than null sec tears. The fact that almost every major alliance is crying and whining over this means it was a great idea.


something that will never be used is a great idea? sorry, what?
Arkady Romanov
Whole Squid
#210 - 2014-01-16 12:38:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Arkady Romanov
TigerXtrm wrote:
There are no better tears than null sec tears. The fact that almost every major alliance is crying and whining over this means it was a great idea.



Here's a thought;

if the vast majority of the residents of an area (most of whom hate each other's guts and would gladly look for any advantage that could be exploited in a new mechanic over their enemies) unify and provide rational, reasoned arguments as to why this deployable is an overall detriment to the game, maybe CCP should listen. We live there, we want to earn there, and we want that space to be all it can be. The situation in null is bad, and has been getting worse for quite some time.

We don't want to have hisec alts if we don't have to (or more accurately, if it was practical not to). I'm sure you'd rather not have us there gobbling up incursion spots and otherwise devaluing LP rewards by adding weight to the market.

EVE can and should have properly reasoned mechanics in hi, low and nullsec.

Stop being a myopic ******* about it.

Whole Squid: Get Inked.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#211 - 2014-01-16 12:41:58 UTC
TigerXtrm wrote:
There are no better tears than null sec tears. The fact that almost every major alliance is crying and whining over this means it was a great idea.

So obviously, cutting all of high and lowsec income by 10% would be the best idea ever, considering how many would cry and whine (and how much more) over it, right?
Seven Koskanaiken
Shadow Legions.
Pandemic Horde
#212 - 2014-01-16 12:45:04 UTC
Risk vs reward has been a topic for years, I think it is about time we form a player elected council to convey these concerns to the developers.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#213 - 2014-01-16 12:45:36 UTC
TigerXtrm wrote:
There are no better tears than null sec tears. The fact that almost every major alliance is crying and whining over this means it was a great idea.
Your Alliance must be proud.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Lugalbandak
Lego3
#214 - 2014-01-16 13:11:13 UTC
i like it , like i said in other tread , a resub of a account just to toy with it in 0.0 Lol

The police horse is the only animal in the world that haz his male genitals on his back
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#215 - 2014-01-16 13:16:28 UTC
Tippia wrote:
TigerXtrm wrote:
There are no better tears than null sec tears. The fact that almost every major alliance is crying and whining over this means it was a great idea.

So obviously, cutting all of high and lowsec income by 10% would be the best idea ever, considering how many would cry and whine (and how much more) over it, right?


Would not bother me one little bit to take a 10% nerf to mission rewards and bounties for L4 missions. But if you nerf high sec missions where are the null sec residents going to go to make money?

I will say this though, my opinion (which most people in this thread don't give a **** about because the only valid opinion in their mind is their own and their sycophants) is that ALL deployable structures are ******* stupid. Should change the market tab to Deplorable Structures.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

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Dave Stark
#216 - 2014-01-16 13:22:50 UTC
illirdor wrote:
Dave Stark wrote:
illirdor wrote:
im soooooo gonna fly around and dropping this baby just to **** ppl off XD


but you can't deploy them in high sec...

awwwww really ?? well im gonna have to settle with null then to bad they dont whine...


but there's nobody there to be annoyed by your deployables?
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#217 - 2014-01-16 13:28:52 UTC
SmilingVagrant wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:


You know that this is a LIE. You know very well thatyou can make far far more isk per hour in 0.0. THe only place in high sec where you do near that level of isk per our is incursions. but those you cannot just get home and spend 30 mintues doing it. You need to get on wait list and wait for 2 hours before you start doing money.


If 0.0 is so much less productive than high sec? Why you guys fich so many wars for the income resources of 0.0?


SImplyu, this is a #[email protected]#[email protected] excuse. 0.0 income is still 2-3 orders of magnitude larger than high sec (except commerce of course)


So is every L4 mission runner posting their isk/h after LP sales a liar or what? You'd have been arguably correct before the anom nerfs that took vindicator ratting away as a staple. Oh and exploration for complexes is up there too, but it's so heavily contested that it drops below "Worth doing" once you get more than a dozen or so people actively hunting in an entire region.

Honestly the best reason to live in null is the ego and the narrative.



Most mission runners nubmers are wrong. THey take what they manage to do in 20 min in their best mission and extrapolate as if they would get only those full time. MOSt that claim 100M isk/h cannot even reach 75M isk/h sustained income.


And 0.0 income has been SUEPR increased from back the time i lived there. Back in 2006 35M/isk/h was a good income. Nowadays its over 80m/isk/h

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Omar Alharazaad
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#218 - 2014-01-16 13:33:40 UTC
Might be the beer talking, but I just had something of a tinfoil moment here...
Perhaps the devs knew beforehand exactly how much this would annoy null dwellers.
Perhaps their actual goal is to drive said people into hisec for their money making activities.
Perhaps this is part of their grand scheme to use the ensuing chaos to help further their erosion of empire control of hisec as violent hijinks occur between players... creating more 'emergent gameplay'.
I think I need more beer, and time to mull this over.

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#219 - 2014-01-16 13:37:19 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:



You know that this is a LIE. You know very well thatyou can make far far more isk per hour in 0.0. THe only place in high sec where you do near that level of isk per our is incursions. but those you cannot just get home and spend 30 mintues doing it. You need to get on wait list and wait for 2 hours before you start doing money.


If 0.0 is so much less productive than high sec? Why you guys fich so many wars for the income resources of 0.0?


SImplyu, this is a #[email protected]#[email protected] excuse. 0.0 income is still 2-3 orders of magnitude larger than high sec (except commerce of course)


Average earning on anoms is 90 mil an hour. You earn 120 to 180 doing SOE missions in high sec or 150 to 200 mil with incursions and unlike anoms, you dont have to stop whenever a neutral enters local.



No you do not! You can have peaks of 120M isk /h runnign SOE missions. The constant averaged number is much lower. Specially nwo that the price of the SOE ships dropped to HALF of what they were 1 month ago. Blitzing with a very good ship I can sustain 98m isk/ h. But I cannot do that anymore because shiny ships explode and i Need to be more careful So my income dropped to an average of 70-80m hour.

Also same in incursions. When you are running, yes you can do 200m/isk per hour. Now.. good luck getting home and finding a spot in a fleet immediately. I ran missions for more than 1 year with a VERY VERY high skilled character in an elite shiny group and usually you get there at the chat and you try to get a fleet and the next one is schedule for 2 hours. Or you get and there is no space, and you need to get in wait list.

Usually you run-2-3 hours of 200M/ isk per hour.. with intervals of 2 hours WIATING.. and facign zero isk/h. If you have a lot of free time incursions are great. If you are a useful human and have a job they are HORRIBLE income sources.

And about stopping with neutrals? LOL. I lived in zero zero.. there is less risk in 0.0 than in apanake nowadays. I n apanake (the SOE system) you need to scan full time, because more expensive ships get blown up there every day by gankers than in any 0.0 region looses in ratters (excluding the stupid carrier ratters).



Now.. why you 0.0 dwellers are not running 0.0 missions for the Pirate factions? You get MORe LP per hour than ANY High sec. and your LP store pays MUCH MUCH more per LP than any SOE item.

You have the option there to play the same game, but with much larger income. If you decide to be lazy.. it is your problem. W

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Karak Bol
Low-Sec Survival Ltd.
#220 - 2014-01-16 13:45:45 UTC
ESS: great Idea! Let the Nullbears risk something for their money. We in low do it all the time.