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Dev blog: CSM8 - 1st Summit Minutes Published

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Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#181 - 2014-01-09 14:40:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Jenn aSide wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
CCP Dolan wrote:
Yonis Kador wrote:

But if you really want to get more specific: in 2012, the CSM were invited to become official CCP stakeholders and the reason given was so they would be able to contribute feedback during the development process.

"The planning process is always in flux; if you nail things down too early, you miss things. In one of our Skype conferences, I made a point of saying we were evaluating things, not that we had a plan. I think CSM should come into the process during the evaluation stage, before we have a plan."
-- CCP Ripley, CSM Winter Summit Minutes 2012, p. 22


Just in case there was any confusion, making this happen is actually the biggest success of CSM8, they know virtually every project long before any work begins and provide tremendous input to pre-design and design review. The day to day of the CSM is serving as a sort of focus group for us too bounce stuff off.


CCP Dolan, by doing that, you're just raising the stakes for the lobbies, and shafting even furher all the players who are being shafted because you won't engage them with a ten foot pole unless they play together, they organize, they campaign, they vote and get someone elected. Their side of the issue is very simple: if you fail to meet their expectations, let alone if you spoil their game, they go away and you lose their money. So why should be THEM who care about getting what they expect so they can keep handing you their money?

How is supposed to represent the CSM the massive amount of players who don't play together, don't organize, don't vote and yet are a substantial share of your income?

Picking an instance: What if for every player who said "yay, lootable implants, gimme money!" there were two players who said "and now they killed me for my implants, f*** this game, I quit"? How in heavens could you even tell? Wishful thinking? Crunching server stats? Hoping that a demographically skewed little group of guys voted by less than 1 in 6 players are the right stuff because they're the only stuff you got?


I've never seen a worse "appeal to CCP's wallet" attempt ever.

You keep talking about all these down trodden-disorganized non voters as if you are some kind of community organizer or something. The fact is, you can only speak for yourself, those disorganized people DO NOT CARE (as evidenced by the fact that they don't organize). Stop trying to hide your agenda behind the poor unrepresented masses. Speak YOUR mind, not everyone elses for a change.


Edited: I've said what I want enough times to not repeat it here again... Straight

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Markku Laaksonen
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#182 - 2014-01-15 02:18:51 UTC
CSM8 Meeting Minutes wrote:
Session 15: Team True Grit and the DUST 514 Link
Due to the large amount of NDA material in this session, and the rapidly evolving nature
of DUST 514 development, this session will be temporarily delayed. Readers should
expect it to be added very soon after the new year.


Any news on this?

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James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#183 - 2014-01-15 09:25:40 UTC
Markku Laaksonen wrote:
CSM8 Meeting Minutes wrote:
Session 15: Team True Grit and the DUST 514 Link
Due to the large amount of NDA material in this session, and the rapidly evolving nature
of DUST 514 development, this session will be temporarily delayed. Readers should
expect it to be added very soon after the new year.


Any news on this?

They meant new year 2015.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Markku Laaksonen
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#184 - 2014-01-16 01:37:55 UTC
There needs to be news on that.

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Markku Laaksonen
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#185 - 2014-01-20 03:26:00 UTC
Markku Laaksonen wrote:
CSM8 Meeting Minutes wrote:
Session 15: Team True Grit and the DUST 514 Link
Due to the large amount of NDA material in this session, and the rapidly evolving nature
of DUST 514 development, this session will be temporarily delayed. Readers should
expect it to be added very soon after the new year.


Any news on this?


Any kind of response at all on this would be awesome.

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Jon Hellguard
X-COM
#186 - 2014-01-20 13:06:08 UTC
Sounds pretty good. Job well done, all of you. Thank you for your commitment.
Looking forward to what the future holds.
Billy Hix
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#187 - 2014-01-22 22:17:18 UTC
CCP Dolan wrote:
The dust session is only like that because that session is slightly delayed, and will be released quite soon, not the total black box that is session 2 & 3.


Any news?
Markku Laaksonen
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#188 - 2014-01-23 04:44:58 UTC
CCP Dolan wrote:
DeeJ1 wrote:
And again all the Revenant Dust stuff is missing from the minutes due to NDA :(


The relevant DUST session should be out sooner rather than later.


Is it getting to be later rather than sooner?

CCP Dolan wrote:
Billy Hix wrote:
... In the session with Hilmar it was stated they are focused on making a great FPS and the integration between the games in seen as a nice to have extra.

Can any CSM member say that while they can't tell us about the Dust link, they are excited about what they are seeing?


I can help clear some of the initial confusion. All session are covered under the NDA, and released after review by the CSM and CCP. The sessions completely NDA'd out are like that because I'm not gonna release what's in them until that thing is announced. The dust session is only like that because that session is slightly delayed, and will be released quite soon, not the total black box that is session 2 & 3.


"integration between the games in seen as a nice to have extra"

This is enormously disappointing. Integration between the games was DUST's whole reason for existing.

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Markku Laaksonen
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#189 - 2014-02-06 02:02:38 UTC
February now. Any word on the DUST stuff?


Also, I was looking for this quote to share on the DUST forums and I couldn't remember for the life of me where I saw it! I already quoted it!

"integration between the games in seen as a nice to have extra"

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seth Hendar
I love you miners
#190 - 2014-02-11 15:34:51 UTC  |  Edited by: seth Hendar
mynnna wrote:
[quote=Yonis Kador]
Believe me when I say that CCP does respond to that feedback.


sorry, but i, like many other, judge on facts.

and for the last 2 years expansions, CCP as proven you wrong; they don't give a sh*** about player's feedback, or there would be no ESS on TQ, we would have a "turn off" option for the jump animation, the unified inventory would not be a thing, the exploration (especially the loot spew) would not have reached TQ, the radial enu was NOT supposed to be forced down our throat, yet look at the current UI, and those are just the one i have in mind, pretty sure the list goes on......

FACTS, not thought
Pinky Hops
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#191 - 2014-02-11 16:46:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Pinky Hops
mynnna wrote:
Yonis Kador wrote:

And as the CSM are OUR player representatives, having the minutes nda'ed until after the expansion is released is removing a significant part of our - the players - ability to respond to proposed ideas and contribute feedback - via our democratically-elected CSM representatives, during the development process. If there are people out there who think players can have more influence on the development process by waiting until after an expansion is released to comment, then I'm just going to have to respectfully agree to disagree with those folks. lol

YK


CCP Dolan said recently (I believe it was in one of Ali Aras' recent space hangouts) to not ever expect the minutes to be a source of leaks again. The feedback threads in F&I are intended o be the venue for players to respond to proposed ideas and contribute feedback, and they only go up once CCP believes a feature is finished enough that it can take player feedback, account for it if necessary, and still deliver the feature on time. Believe me when I say that CCP does respond to that feedback.

Basically, while I'm with you on wanting the minutes out, I would bet a large sum of my isk that it wouldn't have given you an opportunity to provide Rubicon feedback any sooner than you got through those threads.


So you're basically saying that the minutes are specifically designed to give zero accountability for the CSM's.

No possible way to track their positions on issues. If a player manages to glean some information from it, then the minutes failed by design.

Color me surprised. Roll

I can't believe I missed this gem of a post. It's hilarious.

I mean -- look at the current situation. All information about the ESS was NDA'd on the minutes, and remains NDA'd even now. So sure, we got our cute thread to discuss the idea in, but we have no way of knowing how this actually came to be.

Who were the CSM's that said "oh, this is a great idea!" for instance? Or something similar.
Markku Laaksonen
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#192 - 2014-02-23 01:38:10 UTC
February is almost up. Any new on that EVE-DUST link from Session 15?

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Markku Laaksonen
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#193 - 2014-03-04 01:03:54 UTC
It's undeniably and most assuredly March now by even the most lax and carefree of standards.

What news on that EVE-DUST link from Session 15?

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Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#194 - 2014-03-04 02:40:52 UTC
Markku Laaksonen wrote:
It's undeniably and most assuredly March now by even the most lax and carefree of standards.

What news on that EVE-DUST link from Session 15?

On the dust forums the same question was asked and response was that all the info put out at that meeting is now out of date. The devs in dust will only be talking about stuff that is already almost feature complete for the time being. I expect after 1.8 lands the new Senior producer will lay out what his vision of dust is and how it will be connected to eve.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.
Little Dragon Khamez
Guardians of the Underworld
#195 - 2014-03-16 12:24:40 UTC
Salpun wrote:
Markku Laaksonen wrote:
It's undeniably and most assuredly March now by even the most lax and carefree of standards.

What news on that EVE-DUST link from Session 15?

On the dust forums the same question was asked and response was that all the info put out at that meeting is now out of date. The devs in dust will only be talking about stuff that is already almost feature complete for the time being. I expect after 1.8 lands the new Senior producer will lay out what his vision of dust is and how it will be connected to eve.


we were always promised that dust mercs would be hireable by us capsuleers and could be used to attack the PI of our enemies. That's the type of thing that would get me interested in providing an orbital strike. If this doesn't happen we've been sold a lie by our beloved CCP. What's worse though is all of the development time and resources that's gone into a game that doesn't pay it's bills and has no foreseeable future without Eve integration.

Dumbing down of Eve Online will result in it's destruction...
Salpun
Global Telstar Federation Offices
Masters of Flying Objects
#196 - 2014-03-16 15:53:06 UTC
Little Dragon Khamez wrote:
Salpun wrote:
Markku Laaksonen wrote:
It's undeniably and most assuredly March now by even the most lax and carefree of standards.

What news on that EVE-DUST link from Session 15?

On the dust forums the same question was asked and response was that all the info put out at that meeting is now out of date. The devs in dust will only be talking about stuff that is already almost feature complete for the time being. I expect after 1.8 lands the new Senior producer will lay out what his vision of dust is and how it will be connected to eve.


we were always promised that dust mercs would be hireable by us capsuleers and could be used to attack the PI of our enemies. That's the type of thing that would get me interested in providing an orbital strike. If this doesn't happen we've been sold a lie by our beloved CCP. What's worse though is all of the development time and resources that's gone into a game that doesn't pay it's bills and has no foreseeable future without Eve integration.

Might still happen but this time most of the coding needed will already be done and a release date plan already in effect when the EP talks about it.

If i dont know something about EVE. I check https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/ISK_The_Guide

See you around the universe.
Markku Laaksonen
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#197 - 2014-03-25 22:34:18 UTC
Uprising 1.8 has launched today to many bugs and glitches.

Any news on making the contents of Session 15 public?

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Markku Laaksonen
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#198 - 2014-04-01 18:39:08 UTC
We're now in what some people refer to as the 'second quarter.' By any interpretation, 'very soon after the new year [2014]' would have been by now. What news on the EVE-DUST link?

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Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#199 - 2014-04-01 20:07:03 UTC
Markku Laaksonen wrote:
It's undeniably and most assuredly March now by even the most lax and carefree of standards.

What news on that EVE-DUST link from Session 15?

dust is basically being axed, that's what the massive write-off in the financials was

given that it would be silly to release their plans for rover's new doghouse they were thinking of before they took rover out back and shot him in the head

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
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