These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Assembly Hall

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page123Next page
 

[Idea] for new players to eve

First post
Author
Zan Callira
Sebiestor Tribe
#21 - 2014-01-15 05:38:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Zan Callira
Okay, so first things first. I would like to thank members of the CSM who have taken time out of their busy schedules to take a look into my mind for a bit, as well as thanks for the comments into the "behind-the-scenes" ideas.

Secondly, I did not realize that the fanbase of both this forum (and mittani's) would suddenly be into this as they have. This idea, and as frank as I can explain, was more of a bit of flow-charting a bit of fan-fiction I'm currently working on added to the idea of new subscribers not finding a reason to stay past their first year.

So, what would drive a new player into doing anything other than flying noobships and shooting rocks?

It got me thinking, "Why do I EVE?" ( << Not a typo)

Then, "Why should others EVE?" ( << Also not a typo)

It made me think of every hook that makes me want to play games, but EVE's new player startup missions were SEVERELY LACKING. Have you gone back to your roots and tried the newbie missions as a high-skilled player? It's as bad as trying to sit through the entire music video of Rebecca Black's "Fridays".

What do I find in WoW (yes i play, STFU)?
The grind is horrible but the storyline is beautiful, as are the landscapes.

What do I play Borderlands for?
Once again, the grind is horrible, but the camaraderie with a group Is amusing at times.

What makes Minecraft fun?
Well... Imagination.
(...and the grind is horrible)

Once you get past the BIG PICTURE, you start seeing this idea start to pester the players who always seem to have the best stance on the topic. Half the subscribed players think the other half is cannon fodder waiting to be exploited, but the smaller half have mixed ideas about what to think. Some are, "nullseccers are evil so stay in highsec." Some are "pirates and scams are terribad, but It'll never happen to me." And lastly some are, "as long as i can safely shoot these rocks and make isk, i don't care."

Forcing new players into E-Uni sounds like a good idea in the long run, but it would require a "corporation rebalancing" to take place. You don't believe me? How big can a corporation be? How many players is CCP looking to sign up?
A few hundred, no problem. A few thousand? Little difficult. Tens of thousands? Um, things are getting out of hand. A million? Please sto- Tens of millions?

Well, we're not WoW, so i think trying to break half a million subs should be a main focus. But if EVE can somehow "break the bank" and we can login to find that there's now 100k+ people on almost ALL the time, things will perk up. Economics will see greater fluctuations. Nations (not really alliances anymore) will rise to power or fade from existence. CCP would have to increase their War Server shards by 300% for new bouts of combat springing up all over.

Also, i'm out of good vodka. Kool-Aid is keeping me going, though.

Oderint, dum metuant. Let them hate, so long as they fear. -Accius

Khellan Charante
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2014-01-15 06:41:36 UTC
This would be fantastic. I cannot put into words just how cool of an introduction to EVE this would have been. I was lucky to have friends who could guide me through all the things someone needs to be successful in EVE, but what a great way to get a glimmer of what EVE is capable of.
Luscius Uta
#23 - 2014-01-15 08:56:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Luscius Uta
Also, at the end Aura should say:

"Now you felt how real EVE looks like. It's up to you to decide whether you want to experience that feeling again, or you would rather spend your EVE career as a cowardly highsec carebear whose only purpose is to grind for ISK."

Workarounds are not bugfixes.

Sephira Galamore
Inner Beard Society
#24 - 2014-01-15 09:29:33 UTC
I like the general idea, but:
Don't put a new player in a Battleship. A BC or Cruiser will do the job, too, and will deter from the idea bigger=better. And teasing him with the ability to fly a BS when he can't speed up skill progress (much) may lead up to frustration.
Treborr MintingtonJr
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#25 - 2014-01-15 09:32:08 UTC
Awesomesauce idea +1
Bi-Mi Lansatha
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#26 - 2014-01-15 14:02:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Bi-Mi Lansatha
Zan Callira wrote:
...armed with a battleship...


I will try to be constructive. No. Blink

After completing the "new Player Introduction" they will find that a Battleship is 3-4 months away with fair skills (a ship they should not be trying to get into that fast anyway). Stick with a T1 Frigate: quick to train into and fairly cheap to replace. Also, while I have never done it myself... Faction Warfare, I am told, is possible and profitable for a 'newish' pilot in a T1.
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#27 - 2014-01-15 14:42:43 UTC
I like the idea, but you should make it a simulation, a training for new pod pilots while their first clone is being prepared. There would be too much stretch from the reality and it could really drive away people by making them think they will go back to a rookie character if they die.
Also, a lot of people that tried other MMOs with personal stories are TIRED of starting as someone powerful / a hero / someone with a great destiny / etc...So yeah a smiluation would do the trick perfectly.

By the way, three points :
1- The whole thing of having your original body terminated and waking up in your first clone when you start a character is not exploited at all, whereas it could be an easy and interesting way of introducting people with the harshness of New Eden and Eve storyline.

2- Any form of "epic introduction" should see a rewamp of the whole tutoriel to ensure that players are not dissapointed by what they see next, and the lack of action they might get while learning stuff.

3- There is no need to commit on making the most epic scripted experience possible. Just make something realistic that gives a teaser of what is Eve one you are not a rookie anymore. More would bring dissapointment and the feeling that CCP is lying to its new subscribers.

Signature Tanking Best Tanking

[Ex-F] CEO - Eve-guides.fr

Ultimate Citadel Guide - 2016 EVE Career Chart

Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#28 - 2014-01-15 14:56:49 UTC
Great idea, but I would not shuffle the person off in a frigate. Start them big in a battleship.

If you want to get both standards done well, start them in a battleship, when it dies and they are in their pod, do a tiny tutorial about boarding a floating abandoned cruiser or battlecruiser floating on field, and then they can continue the fight a little longer. That way you get both perspectives. You could potentially put a fit ship on contract and make the person buy it (I would do that for the battleship).

Don't overdo this concept though. Its meant as a 10 to 20 minute introduction, not a 3 hour extravaganza. Programming that much AI takes time.

Yaay!!!!

Le Petite More
Doomheim
#29 - 2014-01-15 14:59:34 UTC
Starting them off in a battleship is a terrible idea because then they will want to race for one and will lose it because they lack the skills.
Ali Aras
Nobody in Local
Of Sound Mind
#30 - 2014-01-15 15:01:09 UTC
The exact story and ships chosen are the kind of design thing that CCP, employing professional designers and having more data, would likely be more able to do.

I'm interested still in ways this could fail-- one that came up was the problem where there's a big time to train into the ship you're test-driving. That's a good point-- a lot of times this kind of start ends up taking you to endgame power, which is similar in concept, but those games don't have multiple real months to get to where you're going.

http://warp-to-sun.tumblr.com -- my blog

Diska Eamod
White Pearl Initiative
EDENCOM Defensive Initiative
#31 - 2014-01-15 15:59:29 UTC
Ali Aras wrote:
The exact story and ships chosen are the kind of design thing that CCP, employing professional designers and having more data, would likely be more able to do.

I'm interested still in ways this could fail-- one that came up was the problem where there's a big time to train into the ship you're test-driving. That's a good point-- a lot of times this kind of start ends up taking you to endgame power, which is similar in concept, but those games don't have multiple real months to get to where you're going.


Since it's a scripted fight, civilian modules could be used to simulate different activities; modules that are effectively useless but work for the intro. The pilot's ship could also be civilian-esque. CCP could easily create a battle cruiser with no pre-reqs but has about 1000 ehp. This could also open up the option of letting a new pilot choose a role for the fight like logistics or tackler.

Another point of failure would be the real corporations and how to connect to them. New players won't have a clue on how to get connected with the Coalitions and Null Sec alliances. If the tutorial linked to RvB or EvE Uni, that might help some.

Emmerik
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2014-01-15 16:09:19 UTC
+1
Kubetz
#33 - 2014-01-15 16:13:39 UTC
I like this concept a lot.

I am not sure how is it feasible from technical standpoint. I, but it would be great if something like that was implemented. This scenarios can be also used to teach players about tackling, ewar, logi and all kind of stuff.
SpaceSaft
Almost Dangerous
Wolves Amongst Strangers
#34 - 2014-01-15 17:08:31 UTC  |  Edited by: SpaceSaft
There is no reason why this fleet that the new player flies in should just go somewhere and die. It could give him/her the tour first, a la oh look a hauler of another faction, let's shoot it, oh noes one of our miners is being attacked by someone or there is this guy in that anomly we have to scan first and each time the fleet almost get that guy and he jumps, you follow and you land in a trap. And each time the new player loses some sp and isk and the ship he or she is flying, forcing the new player to take smaller ships with different tasks.

(The last time could be that you fly a tackle so that time he doesn't get away but his friends come and you're no longer flying something that does DPS.)

But this is really nothing you guys couldn't come up with by yourself, right?
Zan Callira
Sebiestor Tribe
#35 - 2014-01-15 18:39:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Zan Callira
Well, has anyone looked at World of Warcraft lately?

The first races (representing the vanilla & 2nd expansions) were played normally. We can attribute this to EVE's first decade, such as showing off player models, factions, and warfare.

The third expansion to World of Warcraft (and every expansion after) hooked players with characters that went on a "mini-quest of epic proportions", basically their first ten levels were a giant epic moving storyline before they entered the "full world" of the game. Using a "phasing" technology, they [Blizzard] allowed players on different parts of the mission's line not to interact with each other. (but you could still chat IF someone out there was willing to talk.) I mean, you're doing a quest of unbelievable size, the visuals can stay with you long after you're done. We can view this as where CCP would like to go with EVE in the second decade. Sure, the capsuleers ARE taking over, but if things in EVE are represented by an overhanging cliff on the skills chart, we (not just the nullseccers) are going to need help from new players with a desire to strive for bigger and better but also has actually flown large fleet encounters.

Why not have both? (remember that one eve sandbox video?) Start like that.

Quote:
Here's you. A single frigate in space. You have guns. You warp to an asteroid field and find a miner in distress. what do you do?

1 - Helping the miner fight off rats brings up a new avenue. A small gang warps in and convos you to join them on patrol.
2 - Killing the miner brings up a smaller avenue. A Pirate gang approaches and invites you to go explore a wormhole with them.
3 - Warping away brings up a different avenue. An exploration ship contacts you as it warps into your next location. There's money to be made on exploration sites.

1 - On patrol, your gang defends space. Shoot some rats here, a (npc) frigate cruiser there, new tutorial on gun/ship types and resistances. Your gang meets up with other patrols and suddenly something happens that escalates quickly. (Asakai?)
2 - While in the wormhole, your choices affect what the pirates do, killing others and setting up mobile extraction units. A fight in the wormhole escalates out of control and you start seeing t3 cruisers entering the brawl. Player is told to escape through the wormhole marked on the HUD. Unfortunately, the WH exit leads to the fight in Player 1's route.
3 - Your exploration is well attempted as you learn some ins and outs of probes. A tutorial of using and setting up probes (not launched by you) is used to show how to probe out things. Player N is able to play around with the probing until they have found: a relic site, a sanctum/haven, and an asteroid field. Local spikes and the Player is told to use the probes to scan out the ships. A tooltip can be used to show the difference between probe types. Upon scanning down these new ships, player is asked to warp.

1 - War is hell. The fight is escalating quickly but the player is shown tooltips on shooting the primarys called by others. Ships are cynoing in slowly, from frigates to cruisers and up (base hulls only, don't want veterans getting any ideas) Player is told to help take down the cynoing ship. Taking it down is fun, but another cyno starts bringing in capital ships. Player can either join in or fly around these GIANT monsters until something (laser, gun missle, smartbomb) takes them down.
2 - Same as above, only as a pirate gang, the player is told to stay calm and shoot everyone.
3- Same as Player 1, only as a noncombattant player can fly around the battle but a random ship targets and blows them away.

Wake up with a (fake) killmail telling the player what happened and explains the outcome of the fight. Tutorial about difference between caps and subcaps can be used but tooltips can suffice. CONGRATS! You can now EVE.

Oderint, dum metuant. Let them hate, so long as they fear. -Accius

Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#36 - 2014-01-15 19:04:05 UTC
When I started my first character in EVE (I think was 2006) the tutorial was something like: "hello capsuleer, this is a rookie ship, this is a mining laser. Undock and GTFO". End of tutorial. The GUI was terrible and everything was not intuintive, the game was harder and less forgiving.

Even so, with such a bad new player experience the game was steady growing, attracting new players and retaining them. Growing game -> growing playerbase.

Improved tutorials, more scripted events aimed to new players, are all good things and always welcome.
But thinking that current demographic stagnation is a mere matter of improving tutorials is naive.

People approaching MMORPG search for the feeling to be part of a breathing, alive, universe (a sci-fi simulator in our case), now (since several years) probably CCP is unable to transmit this feeling or to translate it in a proper game framework.

If we want a growing playerbase then the game itself have to grow, fix strategic areas left unattended and extend his borders. Limiting the work on EVE to weaking and recycllyng lead to stagnation and to recycle always the same pool of players. Until it lasts.

It's an option too.

Malphas Inanis
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#37 - 2014-01-15 19:58:10 UTC
I like this idea alot and I agree with those that said to let the person try different things

Maybe start out in a frig and kill some small rats, get picked up by a gang and go roaming, then someone batphones your group so you reship to a BS/BC and are jumped into a huge fight!

This is one of the hardest lessons for humans to learn. We cannot admit that things might be neither good nor evil, neither cruel nor kind, but simply callous – indifferent to all suffering, lacking all purpose.

Zan Callira
Sebiestor Tribe
#38 - 2014-01-15 21:19:11 UTC
Ok, to clear things up I might have to post this idea:

The title makes EVE a verb.
Why would a new player EVE?

It's an open ended question/statement. I'm letting new players fill that in.

Oderint, dum metuant. Let them hate, so long as they fear. -Accius

Mike Azariah
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2014-01-15 22:47:09 UTC
Why think singular?

IF the battleship tutorial did well you could have an option of other ones in the same battle.

Here is a tackler

Here is a logi

etc.

They would not pay off in grind type benefits but could offer an array of possibilities. The reason I think it would be better than a video is the interactivity. People learn better by doing than by listening and or watching.

Keep each 'experience' short so that the person may do another or move on.

If you wanted to really make it special, tie it to famous or infamous battles of Eve Lore or player Lore

Asakai, luminaire, the early incursions live events

m

Mike Azariah  ┬──┬ ¯|(ツ)

Mag's
Azn Empire
#40 - 2014-01-15 23:20:19 UTC
Mike Azariah wrote:
Why think singular?

IF the battleship tutorial did well you could have an option of other ones in the same battle.

Here is a tackler

Here is a logi

etc.

They would not pay off in grind type benefits but could offer an array of possibilities. The reason I think it would be better than a video is the interactivity. People learn better by doing than by listening and or watching.

Keep each 'experience' short so that the person may do another or move on.

If you wanted to really make it special, tie it to famous or infamous battles of Eve Lore or player Lore

Asakai, luminaire, the early incursions live events

m
I do like this.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.

Previous page123Next page