EVE General Discussion

When a falcon has 4 mid slots dedicated to shutting you down, and has spent as many months training EW skills to level 5, there is absolutely nothing random about it. Be grateful they can only get one, maybe two, ships at a time, and quit whining.

Posting in a Minigin thread

The only weapon against falcons is to have a 100 man fleet, and bubble it or catch it AFK uncloaked.

ive spent years rolling dice, its not random when i throw a 6.

In the old MMO Everquest there was an special ability Striketrought that allowed to bypass any random defense the ene,my had in the day be either dodge/block/parry/riposte

In EVE there is random skill ECM (chance base amirite?) sure when it works the fun to un-fun ratio sucks but ya know if that falcon need to fit 4x mid mods to jam you you can also fit 1-2x mods to counter jam him (that's why ECCM is) in fact most of the logi pilots do that, HELL even spare free slots in friendly pilots can allow them to fit Remote ECCM to help everyone.


Yet ppl complain about the smallest and less important things, i would love to see you trying to play in the old days vs the VAMPIDOOM when the ECM was the i-win button every ship must carry, and the shield tanked ones was crap due lack of free mids.

Almost completely ineffective, because of the short range of smartbombs. To deal with ECM boats, you need range and ECM-resistant firepower. Smartbombs have the second down pat, but not the first.

The ideal combination of the two is something like a Cerberus, which can outrange the Falcon's ECM and shoot it with impunity. Alternatively, a sentry-Domi, although you need to make sure the drones start shooting the Falcon and then stay on it, and that you have the control range to order them to attack. Neither problem is insurmountable. Ishtar offers a mixture of the Domi's sentries and the Cerb's mobility.

One method that is guaranteed not to work is flying about in a blob of one-dimensional, short-range ships of a low sensor-strength race.

Another problem with 'No random' is that things are too predictable.

It will come to the stage where its so predictable that any fleet simply will not engage another because there is no chance, statistically that they will win.

Even given the randomness of human nature.

i think the interesting comparison to be made with eve is that these randomness mechanics tend to have hardcounters (by which i refer to the mentioned "sword of the divine" in lol or straight out massing health and armor against crit based players. )


in eve we dont have those hardcounters to randomness mechanics. eccm is at best a softcounter. it diminishes the probability of a jam it doesnt eliminate it. (as sword of the divine does).

your best hope against ecm in its current state is by stacking eccm and prayers (and the former has proved most unreliable).

i guarantee you that no one being jammed thinks its fun, and the fun had by people using ecm is not exclusive to just using ecm. i would suggest that this alone (the fun argument) should be enough to make it clear to ccp why this needs a change.

of course its normal for the loudest voices to be against this change, but i doubt this means that the majority of people agree with them. the fact that you can see the dodge change as a big improvement (and i think you hint that removal of crit chance would not be a flaw either?) suggests that you see the problems with random mechanics in gaming.

so my case here isnt really to try get you to agree with me (i believe you already do) but to realise that the argument is not invalid in the eve universe.


i really hope that our suggestions dont fall on deaf ears in this case, because i know that in my own experience in talking to the buddies ive made in eve over the last few years, the biggest complaint is always ecm. there is literally nothing most of us would want more than a change of the mechanic. (even if it is boosted, just so that it isnt random and so that we have a workable solution in practice).

I don't know about anyone else in this thread but, during our internal 1v1 pvp tournament for our corp on sisi this past month, The most fun was had when both pilots used ECM drones and the pilots would say **** on TS each time they got jammed or double jammed or even tripled jammed.

I don't always fly logistics boats.... but when i do.... I prefer ECCM!

As long as the game has a counter to randomness, (be that skillz, mods, or bonuses) I'm fine with randomness in my EVE!

What I'm afraid of is that EVE turns into the "I got the magic item now I always win" game. Last week I lost a Falcon, despite being at max skill. Why? The guy had fit ECCM and honestly Falcons have no tank and no DPS, so if you don't jam you are dead. Now I'm not complaining - this is as it should be. The Falcon is a highly specialized ship and giving it tank or DPS would make it too tough.

But I think that any solution should be skill based. Someone who has taken the time to look up and train all those exotic skills should definitely have a clear advantage over someone who just focused on gunnery. Yet more and more I see that EVE is turning into the "copy the magic ship fit" game and creativity is actually being removed. Witness all the "winmatar" ships. Back in the day (Exodus, when I started) it was the magic Raven. In EVE there always seems to be one single fit that is superior to everything else - and frankly that sucks.