These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Test Server Feedback

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Drug Booster Balancing issues

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
AkJon Ferguson
JC Ferguson and Son Ltd
Ferguson Alliance
#201 - 2011-11-23 23:44:49 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
We hear you.

This has been a long day in the office, but after chasing various people here and discussing this internally based on your feedback, we have decided not to change boosters for Crucible.


Why so?


  • Forced consumption to stay competitive: as you stated, previous approach was flawed as it was turning boosters into mandatory combat consumables (nicknamed here the "potion" problem). Barrier of entry and competition in PvP is quite high already, between rigs, hardwiring implants, faction ammunition and gang links, adding yet another layer on top should be avoided. While side-effects do need to be looked into, blanket removing them may not be the best option as it removes risk value from it.

  • Does not make them more available : removal of side-effects does not address the real bottleneck here, which, as you pointed out, is tied with the production. For boosters to be more used, we need to look into their convoluted reaction and manufacturing process. Treating their possible illegality status is another topic altogether, and one that needs to be done carefully, as we would like to use it for future smuggling and contraband features.

  • Boosters need more thought and changes as a whole: tied with points above, removing side-effects but not looking into their production dramatically affect their prices, which is in direct opposition of the intended goals. In general, we acknowledge boosters need more work to be made viable, and the attempt to push this for Crucible was too premature.



We do know that is a total reversal from the previous post, but we honestly recognize previous approach was far from ideal and should not have been planned for Crucible release, at least not without proper feedback first. Simply put, we do not want to release something that has not been given enough time and that is almost unanimously considered as degrading game play.

Due for these reasons, we will freeze that booster change for now, go back to the drawing board and keep you in the loop when we iterate on this to make sure we are not repeating the same mistakes again.


Many thanks for your time and feedback on this matter.


Note: we also do know this may ruin some market speculation, but as we stated before, Singularity changes are there to be publicly tested and should not be considered as final until reaching Tranquility (stuff may even change when getting there). As such, we urge you to understand that betting on such changes to actually happen is a risk that is accepted when ISK is committed into it.

+1

GJ CCP

Now reverse the 'cloaked ships don't decloak each other' brainfart you had and we'll call it good. Or wait a month so I can say I told you so ... again. Turning supercaps online into stealth bombers online is no way to balance a video game, son.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#202 - 2011-11-24 01:36:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Grath Telkin
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
We hear you.

This has been a long day in the office, but after chasing various people here and discussing this internally based on your feedback, we have decided not to change boosters for Crucible.


Why so?


  • Forced consumption to stay competitive: as you stated, previous approach was flawed as it was turning boosters into mandatory combat consumables (nicknamed here the "potion" problem). Barrier of entry and competition in PvP is quite high already, between rigs, hardwiring implants, faction ammunition and gang links, adding yet another layer on top should be avoided. While side-effects do need to be looked into, blanket removing them may not be the best option as it removes risk value from it.

  • Does not make them more available : removal of side-effects does not address the real bottleneck here, which, as you pointed out, is tied with the production. For boosters to be more used, we need to look into their convoluted reaction and manufacturing process. Treating their possible illegality status is another topic altogether, and one that needs to be done carefully, as we would like to use it for future smuggling and contraband features.

  • Boosters need more thought and changes as a whole: tied with points above, removing side-effects but not looking into their production dramatically affect their prices, which is in direct opposition of the intended goals. In general, we acknowledge boosters need more work to be made viable, and the attempt to push this for Crucible was too premature.



We do know that is a total reversal from the previous post, but we honestly recognize previous approach was far from ideal and should not have been planned for Crucible release, at least not without proper feedback first. Simply put, we do not want to release something that has not been given enough time and that is almost unanimously considered as degrading game play.

Due for these reasons, we will freeze that booster change for now, go back to the drawing board and keep you in the loop when we iterate on this to make sure we are not repeating the same mistakes again.


Many thanks for your time and feedback on this matter.


Note: we also do know this may ruin some market speculation, but as we stated before, Singularity changes are there to be publicly tested and should not be considered as final until reaching Tranquility (stuff may even change when getting there). As such, we urge you to understand that betting on such changes to actually happen is a risk that is accepted when ISK is committed into it.



So, just since you obviously can't see what would happen in your own game, let me help you.


Boosters couldn't become must have, they would become "oh god he's got drugs".

Why? Because you weren't upping the supply. This would have meant demand far outstripped the supply.

Prices would have skyrocketed.



The areas in lowsec where the gas clouds are located would have become hotbeds of activity, and extremely lucrative. That means for once, people want something lowsec has.

In 0.0 suddenly theres people looking to mine gas because the strong boosters have SUCH a high demand. I was expecting to see strong boosters selling for 3-500 million per dose, because thats what its worth, maybe even more.





So the whole time your gaming community is screaming at you to fix low sec and add more value to 0.0, and you FINALLY add a change that buffs that, then you take it away because the guys that manufacture the drug suddenly bug out because there might be competition, and 11 pages of one sided feedback.


DON'T make more sites

DON'T make more BPCs

DO keep the changes.

DO add a damn gas mining ship


The laws of supply and demand fix everything in the end, and suddenly "Drug Dealer" is a viable new profession in your game.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#203 - 2011-11-24 02:12:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Hans Jagerblitzen
Grath Telkin wrote:

The laws of supply and demand fix everything in the end, and suddenly "Drug Dealer" is a viable new profession in your game.



1) It's not a new profession, and it already is completely viable. If you're not making a profit at this, that's no reason to break the whole system so that its easier for you.

2) You've already admitted you're encouraging this because you live in a booster constellation and want the resources you already live next to skyrocket in price so you can profit.

EDIT - and 3) the conversation is one-sided because most people just disagree with you. Not every thread has to have equal number of posts on each side of an argument. If more people felt like you, they've had every opportunity to speak up. No one's stopping them. The fact that this has been "one-sided" is exactly why they should remove the changes. For once, the player base overwhelmingly agrees on something. Your view just happens to be a minority one.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#204 - 2011-11-24 03:04:07 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:


1) It's not a new profession, and it already is completely viable. If you're not making a profit at this, that's no reason to break the whole system so that its easier for you.


Ok its your lie you can tell it anyway you want, but when the dyspro duping thing went down, the largest drug manufacturing guys in game turned over their books, no, drug manufacturing does in fact NOT make money, and nowhere NEAR the realm this would have gotten from it.

This would have put drug manufacturing and sales on par with ratting.

Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
2) You've already admitted you're encouraging this because you live in a booster constellation and want the resources you already live next to skyrocket in price so you can profit.


Hell yea, its lowsec, and much like 0.0, its worth squat. The overwhelming majority of 0.0 is garbage now, totally not worth owning, you want money, you own moons, because 0.0 itself is just not worth owning.

Low sec is considerably worse.


My lowsec wouldn't be the only one to really blow up, and it wouldn't be the one that would gain the most. Fountain has a nice drug constellation in it that rarely gets the use that it would after this type of change. Stong boosters from 0.0 would be worth a ton of isk, because there would be so much demand from that 35% boost (unban Kartoon, his Titan has 1500 strong drop in its CHA, tia).


Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
For once, the player base overwhelmingly agrees on something. Your view just happens to be a minority one.


Sorry bro, but 11 pages isn't the overwhelming agreement, you know when the whole player base is for something, the thread is 70 pages in the first day.


This is just a few peoples narrow view of what would happen, without seeing the larger picture, something that seems fairly constant from EVE's player base (like all the moaing about the torpedo change to the Naga, because there really isn't an 8 torp launcher in game and people couldnt see the reasons they changed it).


Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#205 - 2011-11-24 04:06:56 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
More QQ.


Alrighty, so I have no idea what "dyspro duping" is, or what it has to do with booster manufacturing, but its irrelevant. All I know is I've never lost isk making drugs. I used to propagate the myth that booster manufacturing "wasnt worth it" but you don't keep expanding your business and gaining customers and expanding your product line while pretending you're doing it all out of charity. My customers know I make isk in the process, and don't care, because I still deliver them personally at a competitive price.

You can't just look at a failed business ledger and decide if the "pros" couldn't do it, than no one can. On top of that, asking another businessman to explain to you how they turn a profit smacks of laziness. Get out there and try this yourself instead of theorycrafting. Furthermore, there's a direct incentive to lead others into believing it is a fool's errand - it knocks out the competition. I suspect that's why you've kept this up, because you actually are already are involved in the trade and are trying to discourage others from even attempting to get started in the biz. I'm probably cramping your style, I used to be that way too, all paranoid about what I was doing cause I didn't want others to catch on, but I slowly realized that most players are just too lazy to get involved with the complicated, nuanced, booster trade even if they're told its profitable (and sometimes even lucrative). No point in pretending anymore.

As for the "11 pages" business, who cares. The point is it only took 11 pages to put a full halt to CCP's plans, because the players convinced them through a series of solid, rational arguments, whether they truly represented the entire player base or not. I don't really have much sympathy for those that don't come on the forums and make their case. If a majority wanted boosters to be dumbed down and made harmless, but failed to post here, that's their problem, not ours. You had opportunities to state your case, and rally others to support you.

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary
CarbonFury
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#206 - 2011-11-24 04:14:56 UTC  |  Edited by: CarbonFury
TBH I'm pretty bummed about this reversal.

I'm just trying to understand how this differs from buying 5 or 6% implants for whatever hardwiring you want to upgrade... Why does this mechanic exist? Why do upgradable skills exist?

There is a bottleneck for everything. Once you remove one bottleneck another forms in it's place naturally. The niche to drugs was the fact that they were somewhat pricey and that you weren't sure if you were gonna get hosed on the negative effect when you were actually looking for a boost. If people actually used drugs en mass then more people would produce them to match demand. The price might go up naturally, but it would be controlled by demand and would level out at whatever level the market decided was reasonable for the given bonus -- THE SAME AS EVERY ITEM IN THE GAME.
Covert Kitty
SRS Industries
#207 - 2011-11-24 04:59:52 UTC
+1 props to CCP on having the balls to reverse a previous announcement after further investigation and listening to experienced players here on the forums.
S0NFANNA
Cause For Concern
#208 - 2011-11-24 05:20:52 UTC
If you actually read the dev response, it talks about changes to boosters in the future but with greater consultation.

There's no point getting angry over it, because at the end of the day these proposed changes were ill thought out (the implant sets were ''overlooked'' and the skills associated with boosters were weak, one even duplicated the effect already given to booster users by the biology skill). Rushing in changes like that would most certainly have created problems with production and cost to the consumer.

Future alterations need to go through a lengthy consultation with the community, and will need to deal with all aspects of boosters, from manufacture, transport, and effects, not just a blanket removal of side effects and nerf of their effectiveness.

Boosters arent even close to perfect, but the existing setup is far preferable to the proposed changes. Thank you CCP for realising this, and admitting that this needs more thought.
Baki Yuku
Doomheim
#209 - 2011-11-24 06:27:22 UTC
S0NFANNA wrote:

Boosters arent even close to perfect, but the existing setup is far preferable to the proposed changes. Thank you CCP for realising this, and admitting that this needs more thought.


yeah because that would have made boosters more expensive and all these lowsec f!u!cks cant have that right? I think the changes where quit nice sure drugs would have been expensive but you would acutely get a boost and not a nerf which is what the side effects do on most drugs they are so stupid in most cases that it defeats the purpose. Now we get to wait another 18 month or so until ccp trys to fix drugs again and lets face it they need fixing.
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#210 - 2011-11-24 10:01:17 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:

You can't just look at a failed business ledger and decide if the "pros" couldn't do it, than no one can. On top of that, asking another businessman to explain to you how they turn a profit smacks of laziness. Get out there and try this yourself instead of theorycrafting. Furthermore, there's a direct incentive to lead others into believing it is a fool's errand - it knocks out the competition. I suspect that's why you've kept this up, because you actually are already are involved in the trade and are trying to discourage others from even attempting to get started in the biz. I'm probably cramping your style, I used to be that way too, all paranoid about what I was doing cause I didn't want others to catch on, but I slowly realized that most players are just too lazy to get involved with the complicated, nuanced, booster trade even if they're told its profitable (and sometimes even lucrative). No point in pretending anymore.


Its your lie, you can tell it any way you want, but Drug manufacturing isn't your only source of income. Theres simply no way it is, as its margins are so small that if you even try to source any one component from the actual market all your profit is suddenly just gone.

Exploration, Ratting, Plexing, t2 Invention and production, t3 production and invention, market trading. All of those are viable money making professions that stand alone, don't need any help at all, and a profit can be made thats nice for everybody.

But you're seriously going to sit here and say the SINGLE MOST IGNORED TYPE OF SITE (Ladar) is perfectly fine and totally profitable.

I don't need to pose a counter argument, because yours is standing in the corner looking dumb all by itself already.

If it were ok, then more people would do it, but theres not, because it sucks, its a heinous amount of work for a miniscule profit on the side.




S0NFANNA wrote:
If you actually read the dev response, it talks about changes to boosters in the future but with greater consultation.

There's no point getting angry over it, because at the end of the day these proposed changes were ill thought out (the implant sets were ''overlooked'' and the skills associated with boosters were weak, one even duplicated the effect already given to booster users by the biology skill). Rushing in changes like that would most certainly have created problems with production and cost to the consumer.

Future alterations need to go through a lengthy consultation with the community, and will need to deal with all aspects of boosters, from manufacture, transport, and effects, not just a blanket removal of side effects and nerf of their effectiveness.

Boosters arent even close to perfect, but the existing setup is far preferable to the proposed changes. Thank you CCP for realising this, and admitting that this needs more thought.


I'm sorry, we've only been waiting for ever for them to fix lowsec, gallente, give the AF the 4th bonus, pay any attention to the million problems the game has, and they finally DO SOMETHING about one of the broken parts of the game and you all baaaw because more people will try to take your resources?

Any time we actually get CCP to make a game change we should cheer about it, no whine because you might get some competition.

Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
Dr Halberstam
Nine Eyes Medical
#211 - 2011-11-24 11:04:02 UTC
what is this i dont even. also NO U

Grath Telkin wrote:

In 0.0 suddenly theres people looking to mine gas because the strong boosters have SUCH a high demand. I was expecting to see strong boosters selling for 3-500 million per dose, because thats what its worth, maybe even more.

then you take it away because the guys that manufacture the drug suddenly bug out because there might be competition

DON'T make more sites

DON'T make more BPCs

But you're seriously going to sit here and say the SINGLE MOST IGNORED TYPE OF SITE (Ladar) is perfectly fine and totally profitable.

The laws of supply and demand fix everything in the end

the largest drug manufacturing guys in game turned over their books, no, drug manufacturing does in fact NOT make money
Its your lie, you can tell it any way you want, but Drug manufacturing isn't your only source of income. Theres simply no way it is, as its margins are so small that if you even try to source any one component from the actual market all your profit is suddenly just gone.

whine because you might get some competition


What a bunch of short-sighted uninformed drivel. TLDR:

Grath Telkin wrote:
I could have made lots of money from LADARs with the upped demand
I could not make a lot of money before. it sucked.
so noone has either. or they are dirty sploiters.
if they say they did make a profit, they lie.
i do not sense the supply problem, as I'm sitting on sites
so its all good for me. everyone else is just jealous
do not make it possible for other people to make money like i can.


I cooked strongs at 14mill cost (all from Jita, no inside line on gas) per unit, including bpcs and pos fuel. I sold them at 25. In my 3 char one-man altcorp. Yes, its all in my head, I'm obviously lying.

Let the whole dyspro dupe thing die already. They did not turn over their books, nor did they die or go bankrupt or anything. They still operate and sell, see for yourself.

One moment you ask for no more sites. I suppose your cool with how they are then. Then the next moment you rabble at some other guy who says sites are good as they are.

So you say the margins on standards are tiny. Oh wait, thats what we were saying all along, that materials are overpriced, hence production costs are high. Nobody disagrees with you on that. I would quote myself where I say the exact same thing several pages ago, but I CBA. Or you know what, I can:

Dr Halberstam wrote:
gas and bpcs are an expensive sellers market, making for a very thin line between simply reselling the materials in Jita and actually bothering to cook. (due in no small part to the hordes of I mined it therefore its free types, who cook for a tiny bit more than what the gas is worth – although truth be told, that might also be a result of ppl trying to unload product for which there is hardly any demand in most cases)


What we argued for was more widely available materials so that there can be competition. You flog us for not wanting competition

Dr Halberstam wrote:
The issue is not that producers like me can not make a tidy enough profit. We can, oh boy we can.
In fact Im shooting myself in the revenue by even arguing this "buff" - but I care for some reason about stuff other than my wallet, and this does not make my reasoning any less valid.


you think all will be well if demand is simply upped. you elegantly choose to neglect to consider all the issues that no-drawback boosters would have caused.
you also do not care that bpcs and clouds are hard to come by in meaningful amounts if one is not already sitting on them. your are entitled to your opinion, but I think its wrong.
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#212 - 2011-11-24 11:19:44 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
even MAWR QQ (Keep it coming, you're hysterical!)


Grath - do some math for Chribba's sake. Halberstam, it's quite unnecessary to show him your numbers here. If you're making money, just keep it to yourself, if Grath really is this ignorant he needs to get out and figure it out for himself. Don't rise to the bait and give away your business model to a troll. This may very well be his endgame, he's mad because he hasn't been able to make money off boosters so he's trying to bait one of us into explaining how you do it and why his math seems to fail.

If Grath is going to make outrageous claims, let him. Burden of proof is on him to show that you can't profit off Boosters. He's the one saying its impossible.

He's shown no data, only said that LADAR sites are unpopular, therefore no one can make money. Also, obsessed with silly alliance stories from 3 years ago thinking they have anything to do with boosters today.

Basically he's arrogant enough to believe that if it could be done, he'd know about it. Just have a laugh, and do your thing, enjoy the fact there's one less person going after your LADAR sites and let him show us his supreme knowledge and explain just how this is such a fail venture if he's so confident in his claims.


CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary
Hans Jagerblitzen
Ice Fire Warriors
#213 - 2011-11-24 11:22:07 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:
I could have made lots of money from LADARs with the upped demand
I could not make a lot of money before. it sucked.
so noone has either. or they are dirty sploiters.
if they say they did make a profit, they lie.
i do not sense the supply problem, as I'm sitting on sites
so its all good for me. everyone else is just jealous
do not make it possible for other people to make money like i can.


QFT. I couldn't have put it better myself Blink

CPM0 Chairman / CSM7 Vice Secretary
Ryans Revenge
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#214 - 2011-11-24 11:24:03 UTC
Thank you so much CCP.

Please keep this mentality up after the patch and Eve will be back on top in no time.
Zendoren
Aktaeon Industries
#215 - 2011-11-24 13:14:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Zendoren
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:
Grath Telkin wrote:
even MAWR QQ (Keep it coming, you're hysterical!)


Grath - do some math for Chribba's sake. Halberstam, it's quite unnecessary to show him your numbers here. If you're making money, just keep it to yourself, if Grath really is this ignorant he needs to get out and figure it out for himself. Don't rise to the bait and give away your business model to a troll. This may very well be his endgame, he's mad because he hasn't been able to make money off boosters so he's trying to bait one of us into explaining how you do it and why his math seems to fail.

If Grath is going to make outrageous claims, let him. Burden of proof is on him to show that you can't profit off Boosters. He's the one saying its impossible.

He's shown no data, only said that LADAR sites are unpopular, therefore no one can make money. Also, obsessed with silly alliance stories from 3 years ago thinking they have anything to do with boosters today.

Basically he's arrogant enough to believe that if it could be done, he'd know about it. Just have a laugh, and do your thing, enjoy the fact there's one less person going after your LADAR sites and let him show us his supreme knowledge and explain just how this is such a fail venture if he's so confident in his claims.




Agreed, It's up to CCP to investigate who is right and who is just BSing in this thread. The people who know, see what's going on and compares it to what they know out here in the game who uses and produces boosters.

I'll be the first to admit that I'm looking at this from mostly a users standpoint from PvP. The addition of no side effect drugs to low-sec PvP would be equivalent to adding gold ammo to the nex store, due to the issues with supply IMHO

It's our job now to give suggestions and offer plans to CCP in this thread for the re-balancing of boosters. IMHO i think the new high sec contraband system needs to come first, then the changes to production and ladar sites (supply) then finally, start looking at changes to boosters.

Overhauling the contraband system to be more straight forward, as to what you can and cant do, will increase the demand as people will know if they can carry boosters in high sec and what that means for them.

Changes in production and supply will mean that suppliers will not find them selves in a situation of buying out an entire market of a product in the game just to fill a fraction of the demand they have.

I think i have given a fair road map to how i would like boosters overhauled as a whole. I just hope that people here can give counter suggestions that can tackle the issues at hand so that we can have a good and healthy debate.

❒ Single ❒ Taken ✔ Playing EVE Online

CCP Guard > Where's the shoot button on this thing?

CCP Space Cadet > What's this "offline guns" button do?
Mag's
Azn Empire
#216 - 2011-11-24 13:26:08 UTC
Great stuff CCP, another good change to a bad idea.

At this rate I'll have my faith in you restored. Shocked How the hell, am I going to get over not being a bitter vet any more? Evil

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Zendoren
Aktaeon Industries
#217 - 2011-11-24 13:55:55 UTC
Grath Telkin wrote:

So the whole time your gaming community is screaming at you to fix low sec and add more value to 0.0, and you FINALLY add a change that buffs that, then you take it away because the guys that manufacture the drug suddenly bug out because there might be competition, and 11 pages of one sided feedback.


Sounds like someone bought boosters due to speculation! Twisted

Grath Telkin wrote:

The laws of supply and demand fix everything in the end, and suddenly "Drug Dealer" is a viable new profession in your game.


Yes, because this worked soo well for supers! Roll

❒ Single ❒ Taken ✔ Playing EVE Online

CCP Guard > Where's the shoot button on this thing?

CCP Space Cadet > What's this "offline guns" button do?
Emperor Salazar
Remote Soviet Industries
Insidious Empire
#218 - 2011-11-24 16:10:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Emperor Salazar
Any of you booster manufacturers that are saying it is a profitable industry right now are grossly deluding yourselves. Demand is simply not high enough to cover the overhead of running a POS when there are no orders. Every booster producer I know, including myself when i was doing it, has alternate forms of income to sustain it; booster production in its current state is largely a hobby. These changes would have fixed that, but that doesnt mean they were good changes. Boosters need a drawback. That's not to say their current incarnation is OK; its not. But these changes were terrible.

As for ladar profits, right now gas harvesting is not profitable as there is marginal demand for boosters. Hacking sites are great due to nanite controls but thats about it. The perceived gas/bpc bottleneck is nonexistant, at least for standard bpcs. There is so much gas to be had in 0.0 and in low sec (though the null sec deposits are absolutely massive) but there is no point harvesting them for the average guy because demand is not there.

The only bottlenecks are improved and strong bpcs, and they should be as they are much better. The real problem is demand. Boosters need a buff. The proposed changes were simply to great of a buff.
Sergeant Marcus
Wildlands Tactical Response Unit
Great Wildlands Conservation Society
#219 - 2011-11-24 16:11:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Sergeant Marcus
Hi, im one of the greater
Improved/Strong ( Mindflood/Drop/Exile ) Booster Producers in the game, [ alone :-) ]


i think Boosters are good as they are:

please dont make them "Better" or make it "Easyer" for me or the consumers!

im working well the the "illegality", also with the hard way to produce, and also well with the very slow way to sell them
i think, its cool to do thinks; not everyone likes, its a nice small group of the market


IMHO : the Penaltys are only bad if u use them at the "Wrong Ship"

let me give u a closer look:

Mindflood Boosters,
Bonus: 10%++ more Capacitor)
Penaltys: Range, FallOff, Missile Explo Cloud, (Hitting Targets)

if u fit them to a e.g. Vagabond , u can perma MWD, but u probably never hit small Targets anymore :-(
but think about Ships without guns or launchers
Scimitar/Oneiros : at Logistics lvl4 -> stable fits
Curse: More Cap? WTF :-)
Combat Triage Carriers: put in a EANM more instead of an CPR -> WTF :-)



Drop Boosters
Bonus: Tracking +20%++
Penaltys: Falloff, Shield Capacity; Speed and so on...

Armarr Lazor Boats: falloff? Shield? Speed? lol
Vagabond-> very nice ship against frigs, but if a "Dual Prop Dramiel" gets in range, u got a problem with its incredible Orbit speed, even with a medium Neut, --> but with tracking ammo + booster : 40% to 50% WTF tracking! = bye bye dramiel


Regards,

Sgt Marcus


PS: CCP thank you very very much for the last days of Market Speculations :-)
Emperor Salazar
Remote Soviet Industries
Insidious Empire
#220 - 2011-11-24 16:28:26 UTC
Quote:

you also do not care that bpcs and clouds are hard to come by in meaningful amounts if one is not already sitting on them. your are entitled to your opinion, but I think its wrong


This is as it should be. It gives added value to the space and diiferentiates it from other space.