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Dev blog: More Deployables from Super Friends

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IrJosy
Club 1621
#481 - 2014-01-15 00:14:41 UTC
Fix Lag wrote:
I'd like a CCP statement on what they think of the whole situation. Clearly, the ESS is crap and they surely know that by now.


Maybe we need to shoot the jita monument first?
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor
#482 - 2014-01-15 00:15:03 UTC
Imigo Montoya wrote:
CCP Phantom wrote:
Interacting with the ESS will allow you then to cash in the collected bounties in form of tags which can be sold to the Empires. You can choose to take all the bounties for yourself or share the bounties amongst every contributor.


A couple of questions around exactly how this will work:


  1. If the ISK is distributed in the form of tokens that can be traded for cash, how does a contributing player actually receive the token? Obviously, not all players can be present to pick up said tokens, so is it placed in their hangar in a nearby station (determined how?) or what?
  2. Exactly how is the token bought by the Empires? Is it buy orders in certain stations (which will therefore attract sales tax), or are they redeemed in loyalty point stores.
  3. Can ESS tokens be traded on the market like any other commodity?


It seems like an interesting content generator


Your questions are mostly answered in the devblog: there are two options for payment, first is to "SHARE" which means all the people who collected bounties while the ESS was active will receive the portions of their bounties stolen by the ESS. The other option is "TAKE" which means the ESS will poop out a can full of tags in 40 seconds.

The ESS is EVE's equivalent to a capture point in World of Warcraft: you plonk it down because you want the spineless locals to come and fight you, or you want to lure roaming visitors into a trap. You don't plonk one of these down when your primary objective is to make more ISK. Even better, it rewards you for daring people to fight you by paying you for daring to ask for a fight.

As a bonus, the ESS gives you a 15km warp bubble & cloaky detector.

Day 0 Advice for New Players
Guns'N'Ammo
The Dark Resistance
#483 - 2014-01-15 00:15:21 UTC
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:

The ESS could be a great conflict driver:

1.) Increase its payout: If I'm risking 15%, I should have a least a 15% return! Ideally, I'd like this to drop bounties to 80%, but let it pay out 110-125%, making it very worthwhile to use.

2.) Increase the activation & drop times: Activation should take 3-5 minutes, and it should be 3-5 minutes before it drops the isk-tag! This allows the locals to form up and attempt to defend it. This is the MOST important step that needs to happen!

3.) Eliminate the pre-activation setup. Upon activation, you get 30 seconds to decide take bounties or share. If you don't make a selection within that time window, you must leave grid and come back to "activate it" again. This will eliminate the ability of noobship alts to sit on the ESS and click "share bounty" the moment a hostile enters system.



This guy's offering solutions instead of whining, good for you.

I like the idea of increasing the reward, I like the idea of taking longer to redeem isk, force the theif to defend their intent to steal, Not sure about idea 3 though. It would interfere with fighting (activate or be shot out) and prevent camping, which a roaming gang would theoretically do to get a fight.

Guns'N'Ammo wrote:

I use npc null.
Yes I will move to another system.
And arguments have been posted in previous pages as pointed out for you.


If you moved systems there's a high chance of getting tackled on gate. Conflict created.

Nobody pointed out anything about my post existing anywhere previously in this thread.

Eram Fidard wrote:


Good gameplay mechanic you got there Roll

Isn't this what POS siphons were "supposed to do"?

In case you don't understand yet, even if this were a clever way to generate content (hint: it's not, I'll let you figure out why since your year of 0.0 living left you so informed on these matters) it's still only a single aggressive use of the module, and that's not good enough.



POS siphons don't give notifications, they are subterfuge devices to mess with AFK moon mining.
I realize there's no way to "force" conflict other than shutting off all POSs, offlining all cloaks, and shooting everyone out of the station.

So, what is your solution to either fix the ESS or offer a new alternative?

Gizznitt Malikite wrote:


Alternatively, you could park a cloaked cyno ship in system and permanently prevent them ratting...


Don't people do that already? *cough* Cloaky campers.



So we can forget that with the mobile depot a ratting tengu can refit for cloaky nullification and has no problem jumping out. Got ya.

But what about tne smaller groups trying to get started in null with newer players that dont have the options a large alliance has? GSF seem to be a reason some people as want these but that bias neglects the fact that they are the best equiped to handle these with numbers, jump bridges etc etc. So damn the little guy I guess.
DeadDuck
Trust Doesn't Rust
Goonswarm Federation
#484 - 2014-01-15 00:15:42 UTC
EdFromHumanResources wrote:
When I think 0.0 ratting I think "Man this stuff needs to be more **** than it presently is". Thanks CCP for coming through and putting the final nail in that coffin. I look forward to people finding new and more inventive ways of making isk.


Yeah go to empire, join FW...or even worst... mine Ugh
M1k3y Koontz
Speaker for the Dead
Shadow Cartel
#485 - 2014-01-15 00:16:08 UTC
Eram Fidard wrote:
M1k3y Koontz wrote:

So, what is your solution to either fix the ESS or offer a new alternative?


Burn it with fire, and seriously consider the future employment of members of "team superfriends". I thought I made that pretty clear in my first post. But you're not one for reading, I know...


And your alternative conflict driver is...

I can tell from YOUR post that you don't actually process what you spew out.

As for my not reading 24 pages, I got the gist of this thread from the first 4 pages.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Wyn Pharoh
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#486 - 2014-01-15 00:16:22 UTC
EdFromHumanResources wrote:
When I think 0.0 ratting I think "Man this stuff needs to be more **** than it presently is". Thanks CCP for coming through and putting the final nail in that coffin. I look forward to people finding new and more inventive ways of making isk.


Rl lol Ed, thank you. To be honest, I haven't ratted for isk personally in maybe 6 months, and have no intention of doing so, but not everyone is ready for new and inventive, tbh. I don't mind adapting, and I think its good for eve to adapt, but this is such a nutpunch that I had to take the time to comment.
Eram Fidard
Doomheim
#487 - 2014-01-15 00:16:47 UTC
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Don't people do that already? *cough* Cloaky campers.


Yes, you managed to discern the point of his post. Congratu-*******-lations. Now I'm out before I give myself a hernia trying to explain the nature of reality to you.

Poster is not to be held responsible for damages to keyboards and/or noses caused by hot beverages.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#488 - 2014-01-15 00:19:40 UTC
Imigo Montoya wrote:
CCP Phantom wrote:
Interacting with the ESS will allow you then to cash in the collected bounties in form of tags which can be sold to the Empires. You can choose to take all the bounties for yourself or share the bounties amongst every contributor.


A couple of questions around exactly how this will work:


  1. If the ISK is distributed in the form of tokens that can be traded for cash, how does a contributing player actually receive the token? Obviously, not all players can be present to pick up said tokens, so is it placed in their hangar in a nearby station (determined how?) or what?
  2. Exactly how is the token bought by the Empires? Is it buy orders in certain stations (which will therefore attract sales tax), or are they redeemed in loyalty point stores.
  3. Can ESS tokens be traded on the market like any other commodity?


It seems like an interesting content generator

If you choose Share everyone get the ISK, there are no tags.
If you choose I take all then there is a tag drop. Im not sure what you do at an empire fleet station to turn them into ISK, or if they are tradeable on the market.

Indications the CSM knew about this, commented on it and effected the outcome:

Chitsa Jason wrote:
This is definatelly going to give some goals for small gangs. For one I am happy how this feature turned out. Thank you CCP for listening in to CSM feedback.

Know a Frozen fan? Check this out

Frozen fanfiction
M1k3y Koontz
Speaker for the Dead
Shadow Cartel
#489 - 2014-01-15 00:20:32 UTC
Guns'N'Ammo wrote:

So we can forget that with the mobile depot a ratting tengu can refit for cloaky nullification and has no problem jumping out. Got ya.

But what about tne smaller groups trying to get started in null with newer players that dont have the options a large alliance has? GSF seem to be a reason some people as want these but that bias neglects the fact that they are the best equiped to handle these with numbers, jump bridges etc etc. So damn the little guy I guess.


True, I forgot depots.

The little guy will be screwed in nullsec as long as winning a fight is an N+1 equation.

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Eram Fidard
Doomheim
#490 - 2014-01-15 00:20:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Eram Fidard
M1k3y Koontz wrote:

And your alternative conflict driver is...

I can tell from YOUR post that you don't actually process what you spew out.

As for my not reading 24 pages, I got the gist of this thread from the first 4 pages.


Your idea: Bring a roaming fleet, which people will be forced to fight because they dropped a deployable.

Reality: Bring a roaming fleet, which people will be forced to fight because they don't leave.

If the fleet drops the deployable and leaves, the deployable gets destroyed and nothing changes.
If the fleet stays, the locals have to decide whether to fight or wait them out, and nothing changes.

What has the ESS brought to the game? How has it improved or generated conflict? Nothing, and in no way.

hint: I bolded where you are horribly wrong.

Poster is not to be held responsible for damages to keyboards and/or noses caused by hot beverages.
Ravcharas
Infinite Point
Pandemic Horde
#491 - 2014-01-15 00:20:44 UTC
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
And your alternative conflict driver is....

There is none. People who rat don't want to fight, they want to rat.
M1k3y Koontz
Speaker for the Dead
Shadow Cartel
#492 - 2014-01-15 00:21:44 UTC
Eram Fidard wrote:
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
Don't people do that already? *cough* Cloaky campers.


Yes, you managed to discern the point of his post. Congratu-*******-lations. Now I'm out before I give myself a hernia trying to explain the nature of reality to you.


Yes, you were condescending and ******** in the same post. Congratu-*******-lations. Roll

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Pinky Hops
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#493 - 2014-01-15 00:23:34 UTC
Eram Fidard wrote:
M1k3y Koontz wrote:

So, what is your solution to either fix the ESS or offer a new alternative?


Burn it with fire, and seriously consider the future employment of members of "team superfriends". I thought I made that pretty clear in my first post. But you're not one for reading, I know...


No, this is bad.

It's really stupid to turn a focus on a specific group just because they proposed one specific bad idea.

There's also all the other people responsible for passing it, giving it the thumbs up, and letting it get to this stage.

At some point it isn't productive to point fingers or blame (especially since mobile tractor units and mobile depots are awesome).

But yes, ESS does indeed need to be burned with fire.
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#494 - 2014-01-15 00:23:38 UTC
Ravcharas wrote:
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
And your alternative conflict driver is....

There is none. People who rat don't want to fight, they want to rat.

And people who haul plexes in noobships don't want to fight either, they want to haul plexes in noobships. What's your point?
Eram Fidard
Doomheim
#495 - 2014-01-15 00:24:13 UTC
M1k3y Koontz wrote:

Yes, you were condescending and ******** in the same post. Congratu-*******-lations. Roll


Please continue bringing this quality content to the forums.

I particularly enjoy such classics as:

-GrrGoons
-Post with your main!
-Nullsec systems are capable of supporting 50 ratters

and my new personal favourite:

-dropping a deployable in a ratting system generates conflict

Poster is not to be held responsible for damages to keyboards and/or noses caused by hot beverages.
Jake Centauri
Doomheim
#496 - 2014-01-15 00:24:58 UTC
Enough with the deployables, CCP. Move onto something else.
darius mclever
#497 - 2014-01-15 00:26:08 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
-- The access & theft timers must be long enough for the locals to from up and defend it.


Given most ratters will have access to intel channels i dont feel that the prep time should be much longer. not the 6-10minutes you propose.
M1k3y Koontz
Speaker for the Dead
Shadow Cartel
#498 - 2014-01-15 00:26:10 UTC
Eram Fidard wrote:
M1k3y Koontz wrote:

Yes, you were condescending and ******** in the same post. Congratu-*******-lations. Roll


Please continue bringing this quality content to the forums.

I particularly enjoy such classics as:

-GrrGoons
-Post with your main!
-Nullsec systems are capable of supporting 50 ratters

and my new personal favourite:

-dropping a deployable in a ratting system generates conflict


Well, I hope you continue to bring great posting such as

- ad hominem
- posting off topic
- being a condecending forum alt

Cya around Big smile
Now can we let this thread be productive?

How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp.
Rekkr Nordgard
Steelforge Heavy Industries
#499 - 2014-01-15 00:26:23 UTC
PotatoOverdose wrote:
Ravcharas wrote:
M1k3y Koontz wrote:
And your alternative conflict driver is....

There is none. People who rat don't want to fight, they want to rat.

And people who haul plexes in noobships don't want to fight either, they want to haul plexes in noobships. What's your point?


The point is that adding a deployable that doesn't harm them won't effect their behavior. Duh.
PotatoOverdose
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#500 - 2014-01-15 00:31:12 UTC  |  Edited by: PotatoOverdose
Rekkr Nordgard wrote:

The point is that adding a deployable that doesn't harm them won't effect their behavior. Duh.

I think a neut deploying a deployable that reduces a group of carrier ratters' income by 20% will have a very distinct effect on their behavior.

I think if said ratters are renters and limited to a small number of systems, covering their handful of allowed ratting systems will have a very profound effect on their behavior.

As you so eloquently put: "Duh."