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Babies first Battlesship
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Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#21 - 2014-01-14 12:30:25 UTC
Scios Severace wrote:
Anna Lytical wrote:
Scios Severace wrote:
I've seen the tengu hailed as the second coming of Christ. How does the legion compare to it?


It's only the Second Coming when seen in the light of the parish priest abuses, religious fanaticism, and right-wing hypocrisy.

Tengu isn't all that anymore, and if you're on the Amarr track (armor and lazors) it's rediculous to shift to missiles and shield to train for a ship whose glory lies in the past. Stick to your NaPoc plan, and maybe put your sites on Nightmare. It's a monster. Smile


Thanks for that, I am trying to bling out with the NaPoc but I won't touch it till I t2 gun and tank it. I would appreciate some fitting help though, and why do you say the tengu isn't all that anymore?

high meta guns are perfectly fine with faction crystals , t2 tank is a must.

iv been sitting in an npoc for the last 4-6 months, lovely ship, much lovlier with adv wepon upgrade-5 though.

get used to the t1 hull for a couple of weeks, you will lose a couple of them, but you can afford to lose 3-4 of them for the price of an npoc.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#22 - 2014-01-14 14:49:04 UTC
Scios Severace wrote:
As a relatively younger toon I am just starting for my first long train. I have been looking at NaPoc as my first battleship and was wondering if it was the best amarr battleship for pve for a lower sp player. If so, I would love to see a good t2 fit. Additionally, I have heard a lot about the tengu. What are the pros and cons of choosing between something like a tengu or an amarr battleship (also, does the legion suck as bad as others say?)? Finally, what about insurance on the ships?



How young are you? Usually peopel make the mistake of goign TOO EARLY for battleships.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Bastion Arzi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2014-01-14 15:49:38 UTC
Here is a fit for the apoc which is similar to the fit i started out with. Its quite noob freindly in that its cap stable with the AB off.

If your set on going for the apoc i'd say dont bother flying it in level 4 missions till u get t2 pulse lasers. Scorch is a massive upgrade over t1 crystals.

Also if you get scorch then you can use range as ur tank in many missions negating the need for a t2 tank.

Just swap out any modules u cant use t2 yet for the meta 4 type (except the lasers. get t2 lasers).

[Apocalypse, Unnamed loadout]
Large Armor Repairer II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II

Experimental 100MN Afterburner I
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Mega Pulse Laser II
Mega Pulse Laser II
Mega Pulse Laser II
Mega Pulse Laser II
Mega Pulse Laser II
Mega Pulse Laser II
Mega Pulse Laser II
Mega Pulse Laser II

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II

There are other excellent fits that make use of cap boosters and tc's instead of cap rechargers in the mids. But im trying to post an easy going fit that doesn't require you to manage too many modules.
Speedkermit Damo
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2014-01-14 17:31:07 UTC
Bastion Arzi wrote:
Here is a fit for the apoc which is similar to the fit i started out with. Its quite noob freindly in that its cap stable with the AB off.

If your set on going for the apoc i'd say dont bother flying it in level 4 missions till u get t2 pulse lasers. Scorch is a massive upgrade over t1 crystals.

Also if you get scorch then you can use range as ur tank in many missions negating the need for a t2 tank.

Just swap out any modules u cant use t2 yet for the meta 4 type (except the lasers. get t2 lasers).

[Apocalypse, Unnamed loadout]
Large Armor Repairer II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II

Experimental 100MN Afterburner I
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Mega Pulse Laser II
Mega Pulse Laser II
Mega Pulse Laser II
Mega Pulse Laser II
Mega Pulse Laser II
Mega Pulse Laser II
Mega Pulse Laser II
Mega Pulse Laser II

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II

There are other excellent fits that make use of cap boosters and tc's instead of cap rechargers in the mids. But im trying to post an easy going fit that doesn't require you to manage too many modules.


I was just wondering what range scorch hits out to with that fit?

Protect me from knowing what I don't need to know. Protect me from even knowing that there are things to know that I don't know. Protect me from knowing that I decided not to know about the things that I decided not to know about. Amen.
Odithia
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2014-01-14 17:41:03 UTC
For PVE purposes I would never train Amarr BS.
For Drones, Dominix outperform the Armageddon.
Apoc and Abad are only good against Sansha and Blood so are kinda limited.

I suggest you go for any other race.

Sid Crash
#26 - 2014-01-14 18:36:42 UTC
Speedkermit Damo wrote:
Bastion Arzi wrote:
Here is a fit for the apoc which is similar to the fit i started out with. Its quite noob freindly in that its cap stable with the AB off.

If your set on going for the apoc i'd say dont bother flying it in level 4 missions till u get t2 pulse lasers. Scorch is a massive upgrade over t1 crystals.

Also if you get scorch then you can use range as ur tank in many missions negating the need for a t2 tank.

Just swap out any modules u cant use t2 yet for the meta 4 type (except the lasers. get t2 lasers).

[Apocalypse, Unnamed loadout]
Large Armor Repairer II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Armor EM Hardener II
Armor Thermic Hardener II
Capacitor Power Relay II
Heat Sink II
Heat Sink II

Experimental 100MN Afterburner I
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II
Cap Recharger II

Mega Pulse Laser II
Mega Pulse Laser II
Mega Pulse Laser II
Mega Pulse Laser II
Mega Pulse Laser II
Mega Pulse Laser II
Mega Pulse Laser II
Mega Pulse Laser II

Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II
Large Capacitor Control Circuit II

There are other excellent fits that make use of cap boosters and tc's instead of cap rechargers in the mids. But im trying to post an easy going fit that doesn't require you to manage too many modules.


I was just wondering what range scorch hits out to with that fit?


You don't have to wonder, the range can be qualified as "terrible", same for the dps. It's a horrible fit.
Bastion Arzi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#27 - 2014-01-14 18:44:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Bastion Arzi
range is 53km optimal and 62.6km falloff (scorch)

Sid Crash wrote:
You don't have to wonder, the range can be qualified as "terrible", same for the dps. It's a horrible fit.

can u please explain why this is a bad fit?

Ive used it in several level 4 missions and its turned out just fine.
Scios Severace
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2014-01-14 18:52:00 UTC
I would really appreciate a decent t2 navy apoc fit
Scios Severace
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2014-01-14 18:59:44 UTC
Or would the navy geddon be better?
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#30 - 2014-01-14 19:05:03 UTC
Scios Severace wrote:
Or would the navy geddon be better?

Napoc would be better. Navy Geddon needs both good drone skills and good laser skills.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Sid Crash
#31 - 2014-01-14 19:25:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Sid Crash
Bastion Arzi wrote:
range is 53km optimal and 62.6km falloff (scorch)

Sid Crash wrote:
You don't have to wonder, the range can be qualified as "terrible", same for the dps. It's a horrible fit.

can u please explain why this is a bad fit?

Ive used it in several level 4 missions and its turned out just fine.


The optimal range as such isn't so bad, but the ship is... below par as it lacks any sort of serious dps. On top of that it's mission tracking computers which, when switched to tracking scripts, massively help applied dps. It's also low on tank.


You're just wasting too many slots on cap issues, slots that help your dps, your tracking and your tank. And the result of all that is that you take a whole lot longer to complete a mission resulting in less income. I works, sure, but that doesn't mean it couldn't be better. You're wasting a lot of time (and subsequently money) you could have spent better on stuff you enjoy doing.

A decently fit Abaddon would easily do 200+ dps more with scorch (using non faction heat sinks), while having more overall range and, if need be, more tracking as well... while tanking more. Cap stable fits suck for efficiency, cap stable laser ships even more so.
Bastion Arzi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#32 - 2014-01-15 10:09:01 UTC
Sid Crash wrote:
The optimal range as such isn't so bad, but the ship is... below par as it lacks any sort of serious dps. On top of that it's mission tracking computers which, when switched to tracking scripts, massively help applied dps. It's also low on tank.


You're just wasting too many slots on cap issues, slots that help your dps, your tracking and your tank. And the result of all that is that you take a whole lot longer to complete a mission resulting in less income. I works, sure, but that doesn't mean it couldn't be better. You're wasting a lot of time (and subsequently money) you could have spent better on stuff you enjoy doing.

A decently fit Abaddon would easily do 200+ dps more with scorch (using non faction heat sinks), while having more overall range and, if need be, more tracking as well... while tanking more. Cap stable fits suck for efficiency, cap stable laser ships even more so.


Well u cant have more dps and more tank unless your gonna change the rigs as well. would you care to show us what a decently fitted apoc looks like?

will it be something with tracking computers and a capacitor booster, like mentioned in my first post?

The abbadon is bonused for damage and tank iirc. of course its gonna out damage and out tank the apoc but if they were both fit pretty much the same way the apoc is gonna have more range than the abbadon and that range is ur tank.

Im not sure if the op is new to level 4 missions or not. he said this toon is young making me think he might be an alt or something. The abbadon takes decent skills to fly well, the apoc is more of an entry level bs imo and might be more appropriate for a low sp toon.

At ranges of 50- 60km in PVE your tracking doesnt really matter that much. Enemies tend to approach you with low to 0 transversal so ur guns blap them anyway. with the fit posted above i can hit frigs as long as they are roughly 20km or more away iirc.

I also wonder if the time and subsequent money that i lose using this fit over something with a cap booster will amount to the isk i spend on cap booster charges to keep my guns shooting if i were to use a cap booster. although normal cap boosters are cheap the abbadon sucks cap dry quickly
Sid Crash
#33 - 2014-01-15 10:52:41 UTC
Check this thread for fits, explanations and graphs. A (N)apoc fit will effectively be a mirror or that Abaddon fit (of course changed a bit to suit the ship).

Yes you lose some isk by having to use cap boosters but it's not like you need a ton of them, even if you'd use 10 per mission (which you won't) it costs a total of 50k, EASILY made up for by the vastly increased performance. Not fitting CCC rigs means you can fit nano pumps and THAT means you have more tank resulting in fitting more heat sinks. Not wasting mid slots on cap rechargers means you can fit tracking comps which means you can use shorter range crystals at longer range and you when you have to shoot orbiting targets you track better, your applied dps will be SO much better.

If you apply less dps you waste more time meaning you have to tank more and make less money. On top of that Cap stable fits require pilots to have good cap related skills otherwise they don't work, a cap boosted fit still works fine and you just burn a few more cap boosters so it's actually BETTER for low SP pilots.

Cap boosted fit >>> recharge stable fit :)


The only reason to use recharge fits is if you have a dodgy internet connection or you have to go AFK often and unannounced, otherwise it's just silly tbh.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#34 - 2014-01-15 11:20:20 UTC
Scios Severace wrote:
I would really appreciate a decent t2 navy apoc fit

hows this .

It dosent have t2 guns but that's a small matter.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Bastion Arzi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#35 - 2014-01-15 11:20:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Bastion Arzi
Sid Crash wrote:
Check this thread for fits, explanations and graphs. A (N)apoc fit will effectively be a mirror or that Abaddon fit (of course changed a bit to suit the ship).

Yes you lose some isk by having to use cap boosters but it's not like you need a ton of them, even if you'd use 10 per mission (which you won't) it costs a total of 50k, EASILY made up for by the vastly increased performance. Not fitting CCC rigs means you can fit nano pumps and THAT means you have more tank resulting in fitting more heat sinks. Not wasting mid slots on cap rechargers means you can fit tracking comps which means you can use shorter range crystals at longer range and you when you have to shoot orbiting targets you track better, your applied dps will be SO much better.

If you apply less dps you waste more time meaning you have to tank more and make less money. On top of that Cap stable fits require pilots to have good cap related skills otherwise they don't work, a cap boosted fit still works fine and you just burn a few more cap boosters so it's actually BETTER for low SP pilots.

Cap boosted fit >>> recharge stable fit :)


The only reason to use recharge fits is if you have a dodgy internet connection or you have to go AFK often and unannounced, otherwise it's just silly tbh.


Fair enough. cant argue with that Lol
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#36 - 2014-01-15 14:40:30 UTC
Odithia wrote:
For PVE purposes I would never train Amarr BS.
For Drones, Dominix outperform the Armageddon.
Apoc and Abad are only good against Sansha and Blood so are kinda limited.

I suggest you go for any other race.




Considering the paladin is by FAR the most efficient marauder.. your advice fails.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Sid Crash
#37 - 2014-01-15 16:00:51 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Odithia wrote:
For PVE purposes I would never train Amarr BS.
For Drones, Dominix outperform the Armageddon.
Apoc and Abad are only good against Sansha and Blood so are kinda limited.

I suggest you go for any other race.




Considering the paladin is by FAR the most efficient marauder.. your advice fails.


It isn't, due to damage types.
Odithia
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#38 - 2014-01-15 16:10:50 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Odithia wrote:
For PVE purposes I would never train Amarr BS.
For Drones, Dominix outperform the Armageddon.
Apoc and Abad are only good against Sansha and Blood so are kinda limited.

I suggest you go for any other race.




Considering the paladin is by FAR the most efficient marauder.. your advice fails.

Try enjoying your most efficient marauder against Angel, Gurristas or even Serpentis.
I bet a T2 Dominix/Raven/Maelstrom will do much better.
Lina Theist
Running out of Space
EDGE Alliance
#39 - 2014-01-15 16:22:20 UTC
Scios Severace wrote:
As a relatively younger toon I am just starting for my first long train. I have been looking at NaPoc as my first battleship and was wondering if it was the best amarr battleship for pve for a lower sp player. If so, I would love to see a good t2 fit. Additionally, I have heard a lot about the tengu. What are the pros and cons of choosing between something like a tengu or an amarr battleship (also, does the legion suck as bad as others say?)? Finally, what about insurance on the ships?


If you're mainly interested in carebearing I'd definitely recommend caldari. When I first set out I chose caldari but trained hybrids for some stupid as **** reason. Missiles are pretty damn cool, and both of the navy battleships are really good, as well as just a normal Raven or Tengu.

It all depends on what you want to do, you wont burn any bridges, but if you want to get to your end-game as fast as possible, just say what you aim for and what you want to do in the meantime
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#40 - 2014-01-15 16:26:13 UTC
Odithia wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
Odithia wrote:
For PVE purposes I would never train Amarr BS.
For Drones, Dominix outperform the Armageddon.
Apoc and Abad are only good against Sansha and Blood so are kinda limited.

I suggest you go for any other race.




Considering the paladin is by FAR the most efficient marauder.. your advice fails.

Try enjoying your most efficient marauder against Angel, Gurristas or even Serpentis.
I bet a T2 Dominix/Raven/Maelstrom will do much better.

Actually not as bad as you might imagine.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
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