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Let me buy Skill Points with Plex.
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Dr Sraggles
The Covenant of Blood
#121 - 2014-01-14 16:36:04 UTC
Tchulen wrote:
Dr Sraggles wrote:
My suggestion is about getting people through some of the worst of the first 6 mos when you really need an income and can't fly anything that really produces one.


This is your problem. How is it that I (and I assume most of the people disagreeing with you) didn't have a problem with it? I joined long before the new player experiences were introduced and I still didn't have a problem with it. Now, I agree that the new player stuff is better than before, having played through it but I simply can't agree with you about being able to buy SP in any form whatsoever.

It isn't needed. I didn't need it. No one that I know who plays or has played EVE needed it. Why is that, do you think? Why is it that we didn't need to buy SP but you seem to think that anyone who isn't currently playing the game needs it? I didn't need it as I was learning to play the game at the time and so the speed of progression was correct. The only reason that wouldn't be so is if you're not talking about new players but instead you're really talking about yourself.

This is my guess: You don't give two craps about new players. What you want is the ability to boost your alts immediately to the point that they're useful. You don't want to wait for the time it would take a new player to learn how to play the game as you don't need to for your alts as you've already learned. You don't want to come on the forum and say that as you know you'd get seriously booted for it so you come here claiming to be all altruistic and only thinking of the new players.

Nice.


Cool story bro.
Batelle
Federal Navy Academy
#122 - 2014-01-14 16:42:07 UTC
terrible idea, terrible thread, and really a terrible poster. Biomass now OP.

"**CCP is changing policy, and has asked that we discontinue the bonus credit program after November 7th. So until then, enjoy a super-bonus of 1B Blink Credit for each 60-day GTC you buy!"**

Never forget.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#123 - 2014-01-14 16:47:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Caldera
Dr Sraggles wrote:

Please explain to me how Goons does not "Pay to win"? They can deploy vastly greater resources than any others to my knowledge....when you have more resources it's straight n+1 to a victory in a fleet battle.

Might it not help bring in fresh blood faster and maybe give an actual challenge to the Eve establishment?


let me tell you about how hordes of goon scrubs are running and dying into capital fleets assembled by much smaller N3 coalition. Right at the moment your statement is simply not true.

Your idea of buying SP really sucks bottom tier of balls, honestly. Why would one want to devalue SP in a long term game and force everyone into plexing skill points, I think eve is simply not for you.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#124 - 2014-01-14 16:50:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Alvatore DiMarco
OP's replies to our posts are largely a blend of mocking, trolling, sarcasm and blatant dismissal. He doesn't actually address any of the points made or reply in a logical fashion; instead he simply says "LALALALALALA I'M NOT LISTENING TO YOU" and pretends we're all children when in fact the truth may be the opposite of what he sees it to be. He has used more than one ad hominem in this thread while being brazenly hypocritical enough to call others out on the same thing (but not quite brazen enough to say who is using these attacks, just that someone is).

OP has no actual replies and is simply thrashing about with impotent displeasure. I believe we're onto something.
Dr Sraggles
The Covenant of Blood
#125 - 2014-01-14 16:51:06 UTC
Robert Caldera wrote:
Dr Sraggles wrote:

Please explain to me how Goons does not "Pay to win"? They can deploy vastly greater resources than any others to my knowledge....when you have more resources it's straight n+1 to a victory in a fleet battle.

Might it not help bring in fresh blood faster and maybe give an actual challenge to the Eve establishment?


let me tell you about how hordes of goon scrubs are running and dying into capital fleets assembled by much smaller N3 coalition. Right at the moment your statement is simply not true.



Sounds to me like hordes of Goon Scrubs are occupying Capital Fleets at minimal cost to Goons.

The point stands, resources = might in Eve.
Dr Sraggles
The Covenant of Blood
#126 - 2014-01-14 16:52:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Dr Sraggles
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:
OP's replies to our posts are largely a blend of mocking, trolling, sarcasm and blatant dismissal.

I believe we're onto something.



What you are onto is that I will "respond in kind" to those that refuse to make a logical argument and instead create ad hominem attacks out of thin air.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#127 - 2014-01-14 16:54:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Alvatore DiMarco
Several logical arguments have been made and yet you still make these feeble non-replies to them. Perhaps you lack the ability to recognize a logical argument when you see one. I also call into question your ability to understand what an "ad hominem" attack is, as you throw the term about left and right like so much cheap filler.
Halaxi
Mind Games.
#128 - 2014-01-14 16:56:05 UTC
Dr Sraggles wrote:

Why not pay CCP (instead of just getting it for free) for the ability to get a few of those really painful Level 5 skills that new players really want at the beginning of their play so that they can make it to earning isk easily to fund their endeavors and be competitive in PvP.


Because it fundamentally changes the core aspect of character development in EvE, which quite simply is that it takes time to advance your character, which in turn erodes the character of the game (you are supposed to get where you want through putting the time and effort in).

Let me illustrate this to you in another way.

Lets say this proposal gets implemented. You, and maybe a couple of your alts benefit from this, and, as you say, buy a couple of those Level 5 skills. You then try to compete or participate in the area(s) you have planned to get into. However, you will not be the only person to use this proposal, nor will you be the person who will spend the most ISK (please dont conveniently forget that PLEX can be purchased ingame) - I personally am reasonably spacerich and would abuse the **** out of this. So, not only will you have established characters in the game-area (mining, industry, PvP), you now have a massive influx of newly upskilled characters. You have now made your task much harder.

Or how about this. Take any of the top large null-sec alliances. The membership has a mix of skill levels, from frig and cruiser pilots to capital pilots. Your proposal allows them to uplift a lot of characters into battleship/capital levels. You know those fights you hear about where they get clogged up with so many caps it's not worth the effort? Do you want to make the blobs bigger?

Or what about this - a game, which requires a time commitment, has suddenly become like a game where you can go from nublet to endgame in a very short space of time. Do you honestly think that would have a positive impact on customer retention? What do you think those players who have put in 6 months, a year, 10 years of time, would think if someone can get to the same stage they are at simply by dropping some ISK?

Sorry mate, EvE is a game that requires time, it isn't supposed to be a quickie. Putting in means to easy-mode the game will turn it into a game which is far less than it is at the moment.

Hal.
Why yes, yes I am going to shoot you.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#129 - 2014-01-14 17:00:35 UTC
OP consistently refuses to recognize that EVE may not be the game for him, instead insisting that EVE change to suit his whims and desires right now.

Perhaps Star Citizen, Dark Orbit or WoW will be more to OP's liking.
Leost
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#130 - 2014-01-14 17:01:51 UTC
Jint Hikaru wrote:


In the character bazaar you are buying a character that has developed those skills over time. With buying skills you are simply giving CCP $$$ to magically create extra skill-points instantly and inject them into the game universe. This creates a very bad president.

Also, FYI, i dont agree with having a Character bazaar anyway. However I see it as a necessary evil.


The character bazaar is no different. Those accumulated SP are not being used at all and have no effect on the game universe until they are sold and suddently all of the impact the game universe all at once. There is no difference.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#131 - 2014-01-14 17:03:49 UTC
Dr Sraggles wrote:
Robert Caldera wrote:
Dr Sraggles wrote:

Please explain to me how Goons does not "Pay to win"? They can deploy vastly greater resources than any others to my knowledge....when you have more resources it's straight n+1 to a victory in a fleet battle.

Might it not help bring in fresh blood faster and maybe give an actual challenge to the Eve establishment?


let me tell you about how hordes of goon scrubs are running and dying into capital fleets assembled by much smaller N3 coalition. Right at the moment your statement is simply not true.



Sounds to me like hordes of Goon Scrubs are occupying Capital Fleets at minimal cost to Goons.

The point stands, resources = might in Eve.
But that wasn't your point. Your point was that goons having vastly greater resources, which was somehow Pay to Win. It's not.

Pay to Win refers to payments for items you specifically cannot get, through normal game play. Such as instant SP.

So far you have failed to explain why this idea is needed, but now seem hell bent on a course of attacking other posters. If your idea was sound and with merit, you wouldn't need to do that at all.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
#132 - 2014-01-14 17:07:21 UTC
Dr Sraggles wrote:
Robert Caldera wrote:
Dr Sraggles wrote:

Please explain to me how Goons does not "Pay to win"? They can deploy vastly greater resources than any others to my knowledge....when you have more resources it's straight n+1 to a victory in a fleet battle.

Might it not help bring in fresh blood faster and maybe give an actual challenge to the Eve establishment?


let me tell you about how hordes of goon scrubs are running and dying into capital fleets assembled by much smaller N3 coalition. Right at the moment your statement is simply not true.



Sounds to me like hordes of Goon Scrubs are occupying Capital Fleets at minimal cost to Goons.

The point stands, resources = might in Eve.



What the flying-fig does your point here have to do with paying $$$ for Skillpoints?????

Goons don't 'Pay-to-Win' because they don't pay $$$ to have resources magically appear in their hangars or skill queues.

You really don't understand what the hell your own proposal is about, do you.

Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#133 - 2014-01-14 17:08:46 UTC
Leost wrote:
Jint Hikaru wrote:


In the character bazaar you are buying a character that has developed those skills over time. With buying skills you are simply giving CCP $$$ to magically create extra skill-points instantly and inject them into the game universe. This creates a very bad president.

Also, FYI, i dont agree with having a Character bazaar anyway. However I see it as a necessary evil.


The character bazaar is no different. Those accumulated SP are not being used at all and have no effect on the game universe until they are sold and suddently all of the impact the game universe all at once. There is no difference.
So what you are saying is that all those high SP characters that are currently not playing, (due to RL or whatever) if they suddenly started playing then it's the same as selling SP? After all, they just logged in by your logic it's the same.

Can you honestly still stick with that line of thinking?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
#134 - 2014-01-14 17:09:09 UTC
Leost wrote:
Jint Hikaru wrote:


In the character bazaar you are buying a character that has developed those skills over time. With buying skills you are simply giving CCP $$$ to magically create extra skill-points instantly and inject them into the game universe. This creates a very bad president.

Also, FYI, i dont agree with having a Character bazaar anyway. However I see it as a necessary evil.


The character bazaar is no different. Those accumulated SP are not being used at all and have no effect on the game universe until they are sold and suddently all of the impact the game universe all at once. There is no difference.



That character in the Bazaar HAS spent time in the Eve universe, and quite possibly have had an effect on the game universe.

Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
#135 - 2014-01-14 17:18:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Robert Caldera
Leost wrote:
The character bazaar is no different. Those accumulated SP are not being used at all and have no effect on the game universe until they are sold and suddently all of the impact the game universe all at once. There is no difference.


so if there is no difference there is already a solution for your problem, you get everything you need, right?
Then we can actually close the thread.
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
#136 - 2014-01-14 17:20:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Alvatore DiMarco
Agreed. What OP wants is already possible and this thread is a duplicate on top of that.
Scuzzy Logic
Space Spuds
#137 - 2014-01-14 17:22:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Scuzzy Logic
Gerrick Palivorn wrote:


- Lets say I'm a new player. I download the game, buy 100 mil skill points (approx. 720 dollars) at this point I have effectively maxed out my skills for pvp. I buy a shiny fit faction battleship looking for a fight, and end up getting concorded or ganked because I don't understand the game mechanics. And the losses will continue until I quit or learn the very hard way. How do you address this?

If you can give me well thought out, and good answers to these three simple questions/scenario's, I will support your idea.



From CCP's perspective: Player tries EVE online, pays 700$ more than usual, leaves anyways.
(EVE has horrible player retention regardless, if anything it might increase it and at the very least make CCP more money.)

From regular EVE players' perspective: Shiny killmail, more circulation of hard-to-sell faction modules due to there being more easily-attainable alternatives.

From Nullsec Bloc's perspective: No hauler/tackle/EWAR? Here, have 3 plex, now go get'em!

From ISK trillionaire's viewpoint: Look, Guys, I can fly the Revenant with perfect skills!

From IRL Trillionnaire're viewpoint: Look, Guys, I have maxed out every skill! How come I still lose at PvP? *leaves game* CCP shares go up 10 points.

From poorfag's viewpoint: Value of PLEX skyrockets initially until markets re-stabilize at 2-3x current value.

Everyone wins. (Except character bazarr biomass farmers)
Alx Warlord
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#138 - 2014-01-14 17:24:46 UTC
If this happens, Everyone I know will quit EVE, it will be a Huge real life money sink. Eve have many problems already... this would kill it.

Please read these!

New POS system New SOV system
Sigras
Conglomo
#139 - 2014-01-14 17:37:48 UTC
Dr Sraggles wrote:
Sigras wrote:
Dr Sraggles wrote:
The only difference between being able to buy SP for your current toon (the current proposal) and buying the SP in the Character Bizarr on another toon that has more where you want it is that it may destroy the Character Bazaar market (and many posting here seem to have a vested interest in that). I also agree that it would likely inflate the price of PLEX in terms of Isk. But I don't see that as necessarily game breaking by any means. It is ridiculously easy to earn enough isk to buy a PLEX.

I think we're getting to the root issue of why you think this is ok. You dont really understand the concept of economics.

Its just like buying a PLEX and selling it for ISK. When you do that no ISK is created, it's just transferred from one player to another, and these player transfers follow the laws of supply and demand, the price changes on a daily basis. This is called an open market.

Now imagine with me if CCP came out and said "we're implementing a new program, you pay us $20 and we'll give you 750,000,000 ISK" Well they would have to spawn it into the game to do that, and at first I imagine this would go very well for them; they would see several people shelling out the cash to make this happen, but over time as more and more ISK was just dumped into the system haphazardly, inflation would begin to show. Having a billion ISK would mean less and less because everyone has a billion ISK, soon prices would start to rise everywhere across new eden because the ISK has begun to lose its buying power. Soon the $20 for 750 million looks like a bad deal because even day 1 noobs have that after doing some mining. This is called inflation

See when someone buys a character from the character bazaar, no additional SP are created. This means that if say tomorrow 50,000 people all wanted new characters, the price would go up because there is a limited supply.

What you want would be for CCP to give you SP when you spend a PLEX which is an entirely different thing. CCP would have to essentially spawn new SP into the game and give it to you out of nowhere. This means that SP is slightly more common every time you do that. This would make SP worth less and less until it was worthless.

All that being said, you're probably just going to ignore this post or somehow ignorantly justify you way around it because you want to continue to believe what you want to believe without regards for logic or facts.


The reason I am going to ignore this post is that there is no logic in equating SP to isk. One is a currency for buying the tools of the game. The other is the ability to use the tools. They are not the same and not as freely traded.

This "inflation" of SP that you imaging would happen is easily controlled by the suggestions above: Limit how much and where the SP could be spent.

So are you denying the economic principle that increasing the availability of an item without creating a new way for that item to be destroyed will cause the value of that item to go down?

It doesnt matter if you limit it to purchasing 1 SP per week, thats still 1 SP per week that shouldnt be in the game! Inflation is inflation is inflation.

Again and again you show a blatant ignorance or disregard (not sure which) for basic economics . . . perhaps eve isnt the game for you.
Sigras
Conglomo
#140 - 2014-01-14 17:43:35 UTC
Scuzzy Logic wrote:
Gerrick Palivorn wrote:


- Lets say I'm a new player. I download the game, buy 100 mil skill points (approx. 720 dollars) at this point I have effectively maxed out my skills for pvp. I buy a shiny fit faction battleship looking for a fight, and end up getting concorded or ganked because I don't understand the game mechanics. And the losses will continue until I quit or learn the very hard way. How do you address this?

If you can give me well thought out, and good answers to these three simple questions/scenario's, I will support your idea.



From CCP's perspective: Player tries EVE online, pays 700$ more than usual, leaves anyways.
(EVE has horrible player retention regardless, if anything it might increase it and at the very least make CCP more money.)

From regular EVE players' perspective: Shiny killmail, more circulation of hard-to-sell faction modules due to there being more easily-attainable alternatives.

From Nullsec Bloc's perspective: No hauler/tackle/EWAR? Here, have 3 plex, now go get'em!

From ISK trillionaire's viewpoint: Look, Guys, I can fly the Revenant with perfect skills!

From IRL Trillionnaire're viewpoint: Look, Guys, I have maxed out every skill! How come I still lose at PvP? *leaves game* CCP shares go up 10 points.

From poorfag's viewpoint: Value of PLEX skyrockets initially until markets re-stabilize at 2-3x current value.

Everyone wins. (Except character bazarr biomass farmers)

From everyone's point of view "im now completely out of progression why should I continue to play this game?"