Ships & Modules

What citation? Go to SiSi. Search the market. Find modules and buy them. Spend LP. Run exploration plexes. Get deadspace mods as drops. I never said they were seeded; I said they were available and could be bought.

Every sell order that exists on TQ at the time of the mirror exists on SiSi the day it opens with that mirror. There's stuff for sale in backwaters all over. The market hubs get cleared out within a couple days, but there's still others floating for sale where it's inconvenient for most.

Long ago, in a galaxy far, far away... well, this galaxy right here actually... there were various Cerb alpha fleet doctrines (kill 'em all quick). These predated the Drake swarms and were, at one time, extremely powerful.

However, since the dawn of the last decade, the Cerberus has about 99 problems...

The guy i know that uses it has MWD, long point and web. HAM's.
They fly solo and tell me that they engage small fleets kiting away and killing the tackle as they burn away and then going back in for killing the big stuff once the tackle is down.
I believe he has an OGB and snakes.
It is his favourite ship.

The Cerb does what the Cerb has always done: outrange everything on the field and make support ships run away screaming.

I think the problem lies with missiles, not the cerb. Although a uniform damage bonus would be nice, or 7,5% to kinetic if it has to be like that

Never been on SISI. I always believed if I did, I'd never want to play on TQ again...

Damper Cerbs!

Flying on SiSi is very different from flying on TQ. The psychological factor that 'I don't lose anything if I lose my ship here' changes the whole concept of any engagement on SiSi, whereas on TQ you actually do suffer consequence/inconvenience for losing ships, which frames a fight in totally different dimension. I faction fit and T2 rig my ships on TQ and lose them from time to time. Sometimes I do weird ass experimental fits with bling on TQ. Sometimes they work and sometimes I lose and produce lol KM. But this way every fight has risk and consequence. You get to make tactical judgement based on this before and during the engagement. There are fits that work in hi-sec, low-sec, null-sec, WH, 1vs1, 1 vs gang, etc, etc.

So many variations of tactical situations on TQ make certain fits work in certain areas of space even if on paper the fit looks crap and everyone laughs at it. I have some pretty lol fits that I'd be embarrassed to post here, but these fits net me many kills in my area on TQ.

So yes, testing on SiSi is all fine and dandy, but never discount a fit or a ship just because it didn't work out for you on SiSi when you've tried it.

I actually have access to every t2 ship in the game except for non-caldari t2 battleships.
That includes t2 large hybrids and all but t2 sentries.

So yes while recognise the merit of what you're suggesting I don't agree with it because this is an issue that tiericide was supposed to annul and hasn't solved. That link earlier in the thread Cerb has 99 problems shows that despite getting a general overhaul it still has 1 poorly aclimatised bonus.

The RLML nerf was particularly jarring for the cerb as it stripped a lot of its power from the effects of fitting for defence as well as very low sustained dps. That's not actually the cerbs fault though and the RLML is good for what it's meant to do - kill 1/2 frigs before running out of ammo. The cerbs second bonus linked to the longer train of HAC should have been something like 5% explosion velocity per level. Some kind of useful application bonus that doesn't provide much for LML but boosts the performance of HAM/HML on a cerb to levels unachievable by other races *as it should be*.

But that's not what I'm interested in: I'm interested in getting the best use out of what I already have available.

Obvious answers are:
HACs should fly with logi and recons
Good lord! That's BRILLIANT except for the fact that every ship benefits from the presence of logi and recons. HACs shouldn't need them just to work properly.

Get a better fit
Blimey! Isn't that what my OP asked for? Isn't that what the double L-ASB fit was designed to achieve? Is it a problem that it only worked when using full HG crystals and a blue pill? HG snakes? Still too slow. HML and go for long range? Sure ok but still don't have any range control... and damage on that ship would be abysmal.



Please see my threads here, here and here.

I've been deeply invested in finding some uses and changes for missiles of cruiser and larger for quite some time. The truth is.... CCP don't know what to do with them. If they really had any idea then it would have already happened. We now have mid slot scanning modules but these people are telling us to use 10km range webs and TP for extra damage when the issues aren't with sig radius generally but ultra low explosion velocity. LM explosion velocity nearly 260 last time I looked... HAM is about 150 and torps is 100? Where the **** did this logic come from? If you want to be universally protected just from MOVEMENT then make the required rate of MOVEMENT VERY HIGH. LML should be hitting at like 500-600 m/s, meaning only a specially fit frigate is going to see any specific reduction in damage (unless they're an AF in which case off the bat 50% dps reduction? dont quote me on that, i'll run some graphs in a second), HAM/HML should be hitting for 250-350m/s meaning AB battleships can't get damage reductions and finally torps/cruise should have about 180m/s Ev to actually force the target to start driving around with their AB on.

Just so everyone knows the missile formula always picks the WORST of the two interacting ratios for the purposes of applying damage, even if your sig radius is 2000m a LML will apply less damage if you're doing 1500m/s. In theory.

Graphs are done, testing stats were against a harpy with just a MWD on and off, then against cerb MWD on and off.

RLML applies nearly full damage in all cases. HAM applies about 50% of its damage, HML similarly about 50% to MWDing targets in this band. Against no MWD its RLML full damage, HAM nearly full damage, HML about 80% of paper dps.

This is very concerning for everyone, and most of it being an issue of explosion velocity. We shouldn't HAVE to be in brawling range for that, shouldn't HAVE to rig for it. But we must anyway. Why?

After the RLM changes, the main use for the Cerb is as a L3/L4 mission PvE ship.