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Dev blog: More Deployables from Super Friends

First post First post First post
Author
Innominate
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#81 - 2014-01-14 16:14:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Innominate
Lipbite wrote:
Less cash for players, more PvP around deployed ESS = more GTC/PLEX sales \o/


That's not really the point of most of the posts here. A nerf to bounties or a bounty-siphon isn't a nonsensical idea. The issue is that the ESS in its current form is a 5% nerf to bounties combined with a poorly designed yet overly complicated bounty-siphon, both of which could be implemented in a simpler, more straightforward way.

The dev blog seems to indicate the expectation that people will voluntarily set up the ESS, which is both laughable and foreboding.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#82 - 2014-01-14 16:14:34 UTC
Querns wrote:
A thing a lot of you naysayers are missing is that anyone can deploy these ESSes in a system. Say I've got an inkling for messing with folks. I duckwalk into a system owned by hostiles and deploy my own ESS. Suddenly, I am sapping 20% of the bounties of the system. If you are a sovhaver, you have to deploy these items defensively to prevent this from happening to your systems, unless you want your space to be worth four-fifths of its current value.

So what? Anyone can still take them, and it doesn't take a genius to see that aggressors in interceptors are going to be the ones going around and taking all of the bounties.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

Xaarous
Happy Endings.
#83 - 2014-01-14 16:14:38 UTC
New Question: Where does Corp Tax rate factor into this system? Is it applied to the 95%/80%, or is it still applied to the original 100%? Does it apply to the 20-20% when someone does the 'share' option? I assume it's ignored for the purposes of tags.
Kadl
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#84 - 2014-01-14 16:14:59 UTC
The dev blog seems to imply that ESS are bought from the empires as objects, not as blueprints or blueprint copies. If that is correct, is there a good reason for removing the manufacturing opportunity?
Aurora Fatalis
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#85 - 2014-01-14 16:15:07 UTC
I don't mind the nerf, but the 95% listed bounty payout seems like bad UI design. Why is the UI lying?

If Chribba told you not to trust him, would you?

Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#86 - 2014-01-14 16:15:40 UTC
I gotta say, this was already going to be an iffy proposition without a flat nerf to 0.0 that wasn't really required for it to function. It is not a good idea to go "we made 0.0 riskier, but look, we gave you a nerf too!"

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#87 - 2014-01-14 16:16:19 UTC
Where's the highsec version of this? Oh right I forgot, daddy CCP is caving to the carebears once again and declaring the MTU drones thing to be a bug. Poor highsec doesn't need anybody interrupting their isk faucets.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)

aoeu Itonula
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#88 - 2014-01-14 16:16:36 UTC
Querns wrote:
A thing a lot of you naysayers are missing is that anyone can deploy these ESSes in a system. Say I've got an inkling for messing with folks. I duckwalk into a system owned by hostiles and deploy my own ESS. Suddenly, I am sapping 20% of the bounties of the system. If you are a sovhaver, you have to deploy these items defensively to prevent this from happening to your systems, unless you want your space to be worth four-fifths of its current value.

good troll
in the time it takes for a neutral interceptor gang to enter the system and scoop the tags, you can't form a fleet to stop them. it's better value to not have one deployed, stop ratting when the bad guys get there, and form up a fleet to take down their ESS.
Vereesa
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#89 - 2014-01-14 16:17:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Vereesa
The ESS is effectively free candy for interceptors.
If anyone deploys them they're braindead.

The variations on the Siphon units look good though.

Also with people deploying them offensively- no one will rat with a neutral or red in system anyway and as soon as they're bored and fly off someone will just take it down or destroy it. In fact, deploying one and leaving system will most likely be announcing your intention to come back and rush the thing with interceptors in the next five minutes.
CCP Phantom
C C P
C C P Alliance
#90 - 2014-01-14 16:19:11 UTC
Please be constructive in your replies and follow the forum rules. If you think you do not like an idea, then please point out why you don't like it and why it is from your point of view not a good idea. Thank you!

CCP Phantom - Senior Community Developer

The Djentleman Paulson
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#91 - 2014-01-14 16:20:36 UTC
I FLY INTERCEPTOR

I STEAL ISK

HOORAY GAME
Nassus Ryn
Dystopian Industries
#92 - 2014-01-14 16:21:13 UTC
Increase ratting reduction from 95% to 80% by default.

Decrease ratting reduction from deployed ESS to 5% (75% with ESS active.)

Increase ESS payout to 30% - 45% (105%-120%)



Result: Nullsec entities actually bother setting up and routinely operating ESS's in ratting systems. And ESS won't just be shot on sight due to being useless.

I imagine most would rather eat the 5% income nerf than bother operating an ESS at all.
l0rd carlos
the king asked me to guard the mountain
#93 - 2014-01-14 16:22:05 UTC
Vereesa wrote:
The ESS is effectively free candy for interceptors.
If anyone deploys them they're braindead.

The variations on the Siphon units look good though.


Yay, interceptor honeypot!

Deploy it out of d-scan range and wait with interceptor of your own and a heretic at it. Pew pew.

Youtube Channel about Micro and Small scale PvP with commentary: Fleet Commentary by l0rd carlos

Cheekything
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#94 - 2014-01-14 16:24:01 UTC
The ESS is a joke.

If you want people to willing set one up you will need to give much more incentive 5% extra bonus is laughable 50% maybe , 25% is the border.

What makes it even more of a joke is your giving people "tags" people do not go to 0.0 to rat tags, give it in bounties, LP something useful but tags... dear me who thought that was a good idea.

"but but you can pop the person who has the tags and it'll cause internet drama", frankly bomber + ESS = free candy.

This is all risk no reward for ratters and all reward no risk for people in Bombers with covert bombers.

Don't me wrong I'll use it for the latter, but this is a dreadful idea in it's current implementation.
Billybob Sheepshooter
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#95 - 2014-01-14 16:24:02 UTC
Nassus Ryn wrote:
Increase ratting reduction from 95% to 80% by default.

Decrease ratting reduction from deployed ESS to 5% (75% with ESS active.)

Increase ESS payout to 30% - 45% (105%-120%)



Result: Nullsec entities actually bother setting up and routinely operating ESS's in ratting systems. And ESS won't just be shot on sight due to being useless.

I imagine most would rather eat the 5% income nerf than bother operating an ESS at all.


Because what nullsec need is a nerf to pilot income.
And in case you didn't notice. Thats sarcasm.
Jackie Fisher
Syrkos Technologies
Joint Venture Conglomerate
#96 - 2014-01-14 16:24:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Jackie Fisher
Make them so that the Take All option has chance of causing the ESS to instantly explode with enough area of effect damage to kill anything smaller than a Nestor Twisted

Fear God and Thread Nought

Turelus
Utassi Security
#97 - 2014-01-14 16:24:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Turelus
I'll start with the simple.
The tag names are lame, can we just have Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum or anything that's not "Amarr 1M Bounty Reimbursement Tag" it just sounds far to "this is a game mechanic item" and not "this is an actual thing in the EVE universe.

Something like "Amarr Silver Bounty Compensation Tag" would at least feel like I am using something tied into the world more (and yes I know I am terrible with making names).

Secondly the ESS itself seems somewhat useless past taxing alliance line members (who are the ones suffering to make ISK), renters or neutrals (NRDS) using the system to make money.
When you write ANYONE CAN ACCESS THE ESS does this mean a red can fly into system, activate it, take the tags and move on? if this is the case with it being a marked location on the overview and not deployable near any kind of defence it makes it worthless to ever use.
It's basically taking your wallet and leaving it on the bar while you sit at your table and hoping it's still there with all your money when you come back to get your next drink, people just don't do that because it's stupid.

With anyone having access this becomes less of a tool for an alliance to upgrade their space more and bring us closer to building our own Empires and more a griefing tool for roamers, or is that the intent.

As it is right now the ESS implementation give you the choices of
Take 95% of the current income (another nerf to NullSec and reason to run L4 missions or HighSec Incursions)
Take 80% of the current income and let every Alliance Spy, Roaming Red, Nuetral take 25% of your work with no effort.

Please tell me I have just misunderstood all of this and it's actually a good thing.

Turelus CEO Utassi Security

Enteron Anabente
Provident Provisions
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#98 - 2014-01-14 16:26:40 UTC
l0rd carlos wrote:
heretic


You forgot again that interceptors are nullified, didn't you?
Icosa Hedron
Outback Steakhouse of Pancakes
Deepwater Hooligans
#99 - 2014-01-14 16:26:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Icosa Hedron
The Djentleman Paulson wrote:
I FLY INTERCEPTOR

I STEAL ISK

HOORAY GAME


Same.

Also I really like that you can do tax evasion with this. Think of all those GSF taxes set at 15% which you can now partially avoid by printing tags.

In all seriousness it is really funny that CCP decided to give nullsec another blanket nerf. I guess I'm just glad I don't rat at all anymore.
Anys Thes'Realin
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#100 - 2014-01-14 16:26:44 UTC
My first reaction of the ESS is not very positive - I saw it as modifying an existing system simply to make room for a new deployable.

My opinion of ESS's improved slightly once I considered that there is a chance to steal ISKies from other people ratting, but then it went down as I see this being a very rare occurrence - I doubt ESS's will be used a lot (risk 15% to gain 5%-10% for a device that shows up on local overview).

My overall thoughts - an interesting idea, but I would have put the time invested in this idea into other deployables first.

My EVElopedia roleplaying profile, last updated February 23rd, 2014: http://tinyurl.com/nfazlch I support having more clothes for our characters!  http://tinyurl.com/kpafjh2