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New dev blog: Anomalies revisited

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Baki Yuku
Doomheim
#261 - 2011-11-23 07:32:44 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:


I'll get Bettik to have another look at this when he's back in the office. It does sound like you're talking about a very specific case of fitting here - is this a general problem for a lot of people or a specific edge case for the fit you're using?


This is not a problem accruing with a specific fitting or ship the damage of the first wave in Forsaken Hubs and most of the other "upgraded" lower sites is just not tankable. You're forcing people to use carriers even for these "low end" sites. I've tried flying Angel Forsaken Hubs with a fully faction/deathspace fitted Machariel which tanks allot and it can not take the first wave in most of these. To add to the problem you added random triggers for the next wave so if you unlucky shoot the trigger you will have even more of an unthinkable spawn. You really need to tune the first wave down maybe like it was stated before add another wave this will not effect the income at all but will ease up most of these anomalies. Also you might want to look at the number of elite cruisers that spawn cuz they are lowering the overall income conciderably because of their low bounty but take allot of time to get rid of not due to Hitpoints but rather due to their signature/resistances/speed!
Xtops
8 Sins of Man
Stray Dogs.
#262 - 2011-11-23 07:48:41 UTC
I have to agree with the other "drone horde" people on this one.

You have plenty of broken content still in game as mentioned by previous posters. Please just add more HP to the bunkers for now, and take the time to assess them fully.

As also mentioned, in order to make any profit about (~70,000 ISK -shooting towers), you HAVE to salvage. For most people, that means a second account. You're effectively trying to alienate your best subscribers with this move.

We're not making too much money when you realize that we're supporting two accounts.

Kind of a **** move don't you think?
"Timing is unfortunate" - you've got a week to change it back. That's plenty of time.
Tiger's Spirit
Templars of the Shadows
#263 - 2011-11-23 11:01:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiger's Spirit
Still i have the question.
What about, faction/officer NPCs and with their droptable, because this is already is a crap.

I did 103, 8/10 complex and i got faction loot one time altogether.
This is fine ? What about the faction NPC spawns in anomaly too ? I didn't see there dark blood or other faction NPC almost one year long time.
CCP Greyscale
C C P
C C P Alliance
#264 - 2011-11-23 13:04:27 UTC
I talked to Bettik about the Forsaken Hubs and we're in agreement that they're "too killy" as they are. There's now a defect on these sites to have the initial spawn tuned down a bit; it won't be fixed in the initial Crucible release because we're too close to deployment now, but it's listed as a high-priority fix so it should be sorted "not too long" after.
Lors Dornick
Kallisti Industries
#265 - 2011-11-23 13:32:41 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
but it's listed as a high-priority fix so it should be sorted "not too long" after.


"not too long" = 1/4 of "soon" ? ;)

CCP Greyscale: As to starbases, we agree it's pretty terrible, but we don't want to delay the entire release just for this one factor.
Kisuke Riva
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#266 - 2011-11-23 14:08:36 UTC
18 months? :)
Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#267 - 2011-11-23 14:20:46 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
I talked to Bettik about the Forsaken Hubs and we're in agreement that they're "too killy" as they are. There's now a defect on these sites to have the initial spawn tuned down a bit; it won't be fixed in the initial Crucible release because we're too close to deployment now, but it's listed as a high-priority fix so it should be sorted "not too long" after.


By toned down you mean splitting it in two waves so that the anomaly has one more wave, or outright removing rats from it? The number of rats for the overall anomaly is good the way it is.

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.
CCP Greyscale
C C P
C C P Alliance
#268 - 2011-11-23 14:25:40 UTC
Renan Ruivo wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
I talked to Bettik about the Forsaken Hubs and we're in agreement that they're "too killy" as they are. There's now a defect on these sites to have the initial spawn tuned down a bit; it won't be fixed in the initial Crucible release because we're too close to deployment now, but it's listed as a high-priority fix so it should be sorted "not too long" after.


By toned down you mean splitting it in two waves so that the anomaly has one more wave, or outright removing rats from it? The number of rats for the overall anomaly is good the way it is.


We want to keep the total bounty in the site the same, so it'll probably be some fiddle to ensure that you're just not fighting quite so many at the same time.
Baki Yuku
Doomheim
#269 - 2011-11-23 14:29:07 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Renan Ruivo wrote:
CCP Greyscale wrote:
I talked to Bettik about the Forsaken Hubs and we're in agreement that they're "too killy" as they are. There's now a defect on these sites to have the initial spawn tuned down a bit; it won't be fixed in the initial Crucible release because we're too close to deployment now, but it's listed as a high-priority fix so it should be sorted "not too long" after.


By toned down you mean splitting it in two waves so that the anomaly has one more wave, or outright removing rats from it? The number of rats for the overall anomaly is good the way it is.


We want to keep the total bounty in the site the same, so it'll probably be some fiddle to ensure that you're just not fighting quite so many at the same time.


That would mean you have to ensure that the next wave is only trigged when the previous wave has been completely cleared away:)
Renan Ruivo
Forcas armadas
Brave Collective
#270 - 2011-11-23 14:39:43 UTC
Ah, nice then. On a related matter, did you guys managed to find out what was wrong with the Forsaken Hubs? It est, they would spawn with no rats at all and sometimes having a GM try to force a respawn wouldn't work, requiring two to three consecutive downtimes to have it fixed.

Apparently this happened when the anomaly would be left half-finished before a downtime.

The world is a community of idiots doing a series of things until it explodes and we all die.
CCP Greyscale
C C P
C C P Alliance
#271 - 2011-11-23 15:57:00 UTC
Renan Ruivo wrote:
Ah, nice then. On a related matter, did you guys managed to find out what was wrong with the Forsaken Hubs? It est, they would spawn with no rats at all and sometimes having a GM try to force a respawn wouldn't work, requiring two to three consecutive downtimes to have it fixed.

Apparently this happened when the anomaly would be left half-finished before a downtime.


Bettik reworked a bunch of sites to make them more robust; hopefully this will solve that problem, but if it doesn't, please bugreport it again after Crucible.
Mograthi
#272 - 2011-11-23 16:28:23 UTC
Sigh..... Okay so is there going to be any iteration on the drone anomolies? Make them bounty rats or figure out how to balance them with the rest of the bounty anoms in their current drone poo format?


I guess for us drone folks it sounds like the options CCP wants to give us are:

1. Move out of the drone regions to bounty space.
2. Log in our Hi-Sec logi alts and run incursions for more isk per hour than any of the 0.0 folks can make in the anoms and with much less risk at that.
3. Go run Lvl 4 missions in Hi-sec on said empire alts.

Guess it is time for me to dust off the hi-sec logi alt and go for incursions Roll

If your aim was to buff mining by making those of us who rat in drone regions not rat, then well played, I hope the miners enjoy their buff.
Kisuke Riva
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#273 - 2011-11-23 16:44:27 UTC
Less gun-mining and more socializing in form of Incursions or mining fleets. Go go CCP!
Nyra D
Girl Friends Please Ignore
#274 - 2011-11-23 20:58:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Nyra D
I would like more socializing but, Incursion fleets in highsec give you far too much reward. It's atm impossible to make 100+ mio / hour in Dronespace with just one Char.
Just to compare the rewards.

If you CCP change the Hordes to the wave spawn methode then i will promisse you that the one half of the Drone inhabitants will need to work harder for less ISK. And the other ones will just leave the space which NO ONE wants !

By the site, if the people leave Dronespace and go doing highsec Incursions, then they will just like me downgrade from 3 Chars to just one because i dont need more in Highsec to make more money then now.
RaZor Flash
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#275 - 2011-11-23 22:51:38 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
I talked to Bettik about the Forsaken Hubs and we're in agreement that they're "too killy" as they are. There's now a defect on these sites to have the initial spawn tuned down a bit; it won't be fixed in the initial Crucible release because we're too close to deployment now, but it's listed as a high-priority fix so it should be sorted "not too long" after.



I ... am... shocked /awed/surprised. You listened!

When will I be able to test the revised sites and do you think you will actually make them easier than havens?

I applaud you for listening!

Did you look at Forsaken Rally Points as well? They had some massive spawns of battleships. There was 12 up when I warped to one.

Anyways,

Yay!
Denidil
Cascades Mountain Operatives
#276 - 2011-11-24 03:02:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Denidil
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Renan Ruivo wrote:
Ah, nice then. On a related matter, did you guys managed to find out what was wrong with the Forsaken Hubs? It est, they would spawn with no rats at all and sometimes having a GM try to force a respawn wouldn't work, requiring two to three consecutive downtimes to have it fixed.

Apparently this happened when the anomaly would be left half-finished before a downtime.


Bettik reworked a bunch of sites to make them more robust; hopefully this will solve that problem, but if it doesn't, please bugreport it again after Crucible.


i was about to reiterate that they need toned down and i see you're doing it. good. serpentis forlorn hub forced me to warp out in a 400dps permarepping mega. not the highest dps tank but it should be good enough for freaking anoms.

[edit]
though.. the same anom with a 650 dps passive shield tanking ishtar w/ an afterburner is a lot easier :P

Tedium and difficulty are not the same thing, if you don't realize this then STFU about game design.
Baki Yuku
Doomheim
#277 - 2011-11-24 10:32:52 UTC
@CCP Greyscale when you guys decided to calculate the value of anomalies based on EHP:ISK did you take into account the fact that all high value NPC's have a much larger obit then the lower ones which results in quit a bit of DPS being lost and time being lost to approach these? Because after allot of testing right now on SISI I make less isk per hour then BEFORE your so called buff. Because my Fighter need more time to get to the targets even doh they have a higher EHP:ISK ratio I still make less. Due to the time it takes to take them out / get to them. Ofc this will not affect missile ships but this DOES affect all turret and drone ships quit a bit. So here's my question what are you gonna do about it? Because right now as I see it a Forsaken Hub yields 27,8M bounty total but takes 18 minutes to complete while before it was about 18M bounty and took 10 minutes to complete. So that leaves me with 1,8M isk per minute right now and after change its about 1,55M isk per minute which means that this is infact a nerf. What this change will do is open up more anomalies for others because right now you need 2 havens/forsaken hubs etc per person to be profitable after patch you will only need 1 per person. Still your intention to buff income has not been meet. A simple fix would be change the orbiting radius of the value NPC's from 39km down to 20-25km this would make quit a difference for all the people using short range weapons like blasters.
CCP Greyscale
C C P
C C P Alliance
#278 - 2011-11-24 10:56:47 UTC
Baki Yuku wrote:
@CCP Greyscale when you guys decided to calculate the value of anomalies based on EHP:ISK did you take into account the fact that all high value NPC's have a much larger obit then the lower ones which results in quit a bit of DPS being lost and time being lost to approach these? Because after allot of testing right now on SISI I make less isk per hour then BEFORE your so called buff. Because my Fighter need more time to get to the targets even doh they have a higher EHP:ISK ratio I still make less. Due to the time it takes to take them out / get to them. Ofc this will not affect missile ships but this DOES affect all turret and drone ships quit a bit. So here's my question what are you gonna do about it? Because right now as I see it a Forsaken Hub yields 27,8M bounty total but takes 18 minutes to complete while before it was about 18M bounty and took 10 minutes to complete. So that leaves me with 1,8M isk per minute right now and after change its about 1,55M isk per minute which means that this is infact a nerf. What this change will do is open up more anomalies for others because right now you need 2 havens/forsaken hubs etc per person to be profitable after patch you will only need 1 per person. Still your intention to buff income has not been meet. A simple fix would be change the orbiting radius of the value NPC's from 39km down to 20-25km this would make quit a difference for all the people using short range weapons like blasters.


Huh. Interesting.
Baki Yuku
Doomheim
#279 - 2011-11-24 11:12:27 UTC
CCP Greyscale wrote:
Baki Yuku wrote:
@CCP Greyscale when you guys decided to calculate the value of anomalies based on EHP:ISK did you take into account the fact that all high value NPC's have a much larger obit then the lower ones which results in quit a bit of DPS being lost and time being lost to approach these? Because after allot of testing right now on SISI I make less isk per hour then BEFORE your so called buff. Because my Fighter need more time to get to the targets even doh they have a higher EHP:ISK ratio I still make less. Due to the time it takes to take them out / get to them. Ofc this will not affect missile ships but this DOES affect all turret and drone ships quit a bit. So here's my question what are you gonna do about it? Because right now as I see it a Forsaken Hub yields 27,8M bounty total but takes 18 minutes to complete while before it was about 18M bounty and took 10 minutes to complete. So that leaves me with 1,8M isk per minute right now and after change its about 1,55M isk per minute which means that this is infact a nerf. What this change will do is open up more anomalies for others because right now you need 2 havens/forsaken hubs etc per person to be profitable after patch you will only need 1 per person. Still your intention to buff income has not been meet. A simple fix would be change the orbiting radius of the value NPC's from 39km down to 20-25km this would make quit a difference for all the people using short range weapons like blasters.


Huh. Interesting.


yeah it kinda is:) because right now most NPC battleships in anomalies such as forsaken hubs have very low orbits which makes it easy to kill them with short range weapons.
For example with Angels: Gist Saint (6250 m), Gist Warlord (7600 m), Gist Malakim (6500 m), Gist General (7200 m).
Before you had quit a few of this in the mix now all you have is Gist Cherubim and Gist Seraphim which dont get me wrong is nice bounty wise but they orbit at 39km which is a real hassle even with a Machariel and her near endless falloff you loss quit a bit DPS wise and that is to say that Machariel is the ideal ship for these Angel sites now consider how it is for someone flying a Blaster ship / Drone ship / Laser ship. And in Angel space that is still manageable. If you look at Serpentis space with the endless dampening there its even worse. EHP:ISK ratio does not reflect this.
Jarnis McPieksu
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#280 - 2011-11-24 11:13:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Jarnis McPieksu
That affects the profitability with short range fits (and non-sentry drone fits).

However, have you considered changing your fits to more long range one and checking if that improves the ISK/h?

It would also be nice if EVE PVE content would be more interesting and dynamic so people wouldn't have so much spare time to calculate minute variations in ISK/hr and plan dps/kill rate optimizations... Big smile - predictable and farmable rats are predictable. However, I must admit that considerable randomization in lethality of missions/sites would be somewhat bad as well, as it would result in piles of super expensive carebear ship wrecks and :rage:. However, it is possible to have dynamic and randomized content with consistent challenge level (and ample opportunity to react and tactically retreat - less instant "scrammed, webbed, boom" style traps if your tank isn't good enough even when webbed to 10m/s). Perhaps in the next expansion or two? Big smile