These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

What would happen if CCP finally nerfed hisec?

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#641 - 2014-01-14 02:24:30 UTC
EI Digin wrote:
If highsec industry has the natural advantage of being in a central location and having relative safety, it doesn't also need the artificial advantage of zero tax and (practically) zero expense.

The natural advantage of being in a central location. Whatever that means for you, for me it means that you have to shoot into every direction, if you want to defend yourself.

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#642 - 2014-01-14 02:38:39 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
They don't want it to sell it. They want it to use it.

Their end goal is supplies and war materials, not money.

But profit margins! Trade hubs! ISK/hour!


I'm not an industrialist but aren't the things you're mentioning here exactly what industry is about?

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#643 - 2014-01-14 02:42:20 UTC
I thought industry was about making things.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#644 - 2014-01-14 02:46:15 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:


They don't want it to sell it. They want it to use it.

Their end goal is supplies and war materials, not money.

If they actually wanted to use it, it's fine right now.
The materials are cheaper locally since they don't have to pay for the JF fuel costs to get high ends to trade hubs.
They don't 'have' to import, they can make all the low ends locally by bothering to belt mine. It's not like it changes how fast someone can warp to you since all the grav sites are anoms anyway.
Or they can mine enough low ends from the grav sites and export spare high ends to high sec still for profit.
They can build the slots easily. 420 potential from a single outpost if you use it perfectly, and ships are the high volume shipping goods. The amount of ammo you can import on a single JF trip is incredible. Ships are your bulky items best made locally and they are the ones with the best time bonus.

So.... Not seeing the problem. 1 Factory outpost per 20-30 Null Sec Systems generates all the industry they could ever need. If they are a more densely packed alliance, then they obviously will need it slightly closer than that.

The short version is they simply don't want to. Plenty of arguments why not to do it sure. But none of which will be changed by nerfing high sec.
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#645 - 2014-01-14 02:58:15 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
I thought industry was about making things.


I think there's more to industry than that. What industry makes things just for the sake of making things? They make things to sell for a profit. They sell these things in a market. They sell these things at a rate that maximizes their profits preferably so their Q3 earnings are greater than in the previous quarter.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
Pinky Hops
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#646 - 2014-01-14 03:00:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Pinky Hops
Kimmi Chan wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
I thought industry was about making things.


I think there's more to industry than that. What industry makes things just for the sake of making things? They make things to sell for a profit. They sell these things in a market. They sell these things at a rate that maximizes their profits preferably so their Q3 earnings are greater than in the previous quarter.


Not to mention so that they can use their profits to re-invest and make more things, faster.

Industrialists who don't do things for profit soon do not have any currency to make anything at all. Or they get stuck in an endless loop of mining -> producing at a loss with minerals mined...Ouch.

All those "free" minerals, right? Roll
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#647 - 2014-01-14 03:14:05 UTC
Quote:
Not to mention so that they can use their profits to re-invest and make more things, faster.


How can you still not understand that "profits" is not the goal here?

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Nexus Day
Lustrevik Trade and Travel Bureau
#648 - 2014-01-14 03:32:50 UTC
The monthly "I want to look kewl to lo and null sec" thread has arrived on schedule.
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#649 - 2014-01-14 03:32:55 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
Not to mention so that they can use their profits to re-invest and make more things, faster.


How can you still not understand that "profits" is not the goal here?


Profits is the ONLY goal of industry.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#650 - 2014-01-14 03:33:33 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
Not to mention so that they can use their profits to re-invest and make more things, faster.


How can you still not understand that "profits" is not the goal here?


Profits is the ONLY goal of industry.


No.

Production is.

What you do with the product is a separate act.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#651 - 2014-01-14 03:36:41 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Kimmi Chan wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
Not to mention so that they can use their profits to re-invest and make more things, faster.


How can you still not understand that "profits" is not the goal here?


Profits is the ONLY goal of industry.


No.

Production is.

What you do with the product is a separate act.


Sorry Kaarous, that is just naive. Industry is not simply production. No industry exists only to produce for the sake of production.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
EI Digin
irc.zulusquad.org
#652 - 2014-01-14 03:38:40 UTC
Pinky Hops wrote:
All those "free" minerals, right? Roll


I prefer "free" jump freighter services.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#653 - 2014-01-14 03:40:24 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Kimmi Chan wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
Not to mention so that they can use their profits to re-invest and make more things, faster.


How can you still not understand that "profits" is not the goal here?


Profits is the ONLY goal of industry.


No.

Production is.

What you do with the product is a separate act.


Sorry Kaarous, that is just naive. Industry is not simply production. No industry exists only to produce for the sake of production.


Actually, several do. Notably, the American battle tank industry.

It continues to exist, subsidized 100% by the government, to keep the individuals working there from being unemployed. The Army has a giant warehouse full of unused tanks in the desert near the facility.

Industry is production.

Sales is, well, sales.

They are separate. I also do not know why the concept of making something to actually use it is so foreign to you.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Hasikan Miallok
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#654 - 2014-01-14 03:41:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Hasikan Miallok
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
I thought industry was about making things.


Unless your subsidised to not make things .. or your manufacturing is a front for something else ... or you are invovled in futures and margin trading ... or you live in Hong Kong.



Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Kimmi Chan wrote:
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Quote:
Not to mention so that they can use their profits to re-invest and make more things, faster.


How can you still not understand that "profits" is not the goal here?


Profits is the ONLY goal of industry.


No.

Production is.

What you do with the product is a separate act.


Not true.

If you get more AK47s by making illegal drugs and selling them, and then buying your AK47s you are better off making illegal drugs and then buying your AK47s. Production is about making a profit ... a profit that you then do other stuff with ... production is not like producing art .. an end in itself.

This is where the idiots that mine minerals or manage to buy them cheaply and then sell them below actual cost fall down. The true cost of making a ship for example is the money you would otherwise get selling the mats. If you can sell the mats for more than you are currently selling the ships for you are making a loss regardless of what you originally paid for the mats.

There is only one situation where production is not about profit and that is the case where the ONLY way to obtain an item is make it yourself.
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#655 - 2014-01-14 03:45:08 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Actually, several do. Notably, the American battle tank industry.

It continues to exist, subsidized 100% by the government, to keep the individuals working there from being unemployed. The Army has a giant warehouse full of unused tanks in the desert near the facility.


Profiting from a subsidy from the American Government.

Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Industry is production.

Sales is, well, sales.

They are separate. I also do not know why the concept of making something to actually use it is so foreign to you.


Use it for what? Territorial wars in Nullsec that have the potential of increasing real estate holdings that are still a profit?

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#656 - 2014-01-14 03:46:31 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:


Use it for what? Territorial wars in Nullsec that have the potential of increasing real estate holdings that are still a profit?


Or, you know...

fun.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#657 - 2014-01-14 03:54:35 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Kimmi Chan wrote:


Use it for what? Territorial wars in Nullsec that have the potential of increasing real estate holdings that are still a profit?


Or, you know...

fun.



Andrew Carnegie did not decide to make steel for fun.

Henry Ford did not decide to make cars for fun.

Every industrial endeavor has but one purpose - to make a profit. No industry continues to operate at a loss for any extended amount of time (unless they are subsidized or "bailed out" by the government).

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#658 - 2014-01-14 04:05:54 UTC
This being a game 'Fun' can be considered a 'profit' effectively. So, for 'fun' is valid. But the Industrialist will want to make money on his effort still, just the players buying will be paying for 'fun'.
The Industrialist certainly won't want to loose money on his effort.
Anslo
Scope Works
#659 - 2014-01-14 04:31:05 UTC
Who cares? It's a ******* game. Get over it, nerds.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Diamond Zerg
Taking Solo Away.
#660 - 2014-01-14 07:04:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Diamond Zerg
Anslo wrote:
Who cares? It's a ******* game. Get over it, nerds.


Hey Anslo!
I once lost 100m to an impersonator of yours (and by this I mean I'm a fan, cause I agreed to loan someone I thought was you ISK XD)

Of course after filing petition I got the ISK back ^^.

What are your thoughts on whether hisec should be nerfed?
Hi.