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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Let me buy Skill Points with Plex.
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#21 - 2014-01-12 20:22:02 UTC
Dr Sraggles wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
Dr Sraggles wrote:
Skill Points = DPS, Cap Life, Tank etc

Bling = DPS, Cap Life, Tank etc

Is that not correct?



No, not at all. Buying an officer mod doesn't suddenly allow you to fly amarr battleships when you had no ammar skills at all five minutes ago...


Training Amarr BS 1 takes minutes, then bling can make a huge difference in performance. Using one Plex to get Amarr BS 5 is the end of the world?

More expensive mods give linear performance increases for exponentially higher prices. They also make you a gank target.

Skills give multiplicative bonuses that add up with time and can never be taken away.


No to this idea.

How did you Veterans start?
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#22 - 2014-01-12 20:23:03 UTC
Dr Sraggles wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Dr Sraggles wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:



No, not at all. Buying an officer mod doesn't suddenly allow you to fly amarr battleships when you had no ammar skills at all five minutes ago...


Training Amarr BS 1 takes minutes, then bling can make a huge difference in performance. Using one Plex to get Amarr BS 5 is the end of the world?
It's not the end of the world if you have to train for it, like everyone else then.
Your idea is nothing new and doesn't solve any problems. (No, you wanting SP NOW isn't a problem)



The problem it solves is allowing new players to accelerate their training.



Which it does not do, it allows older, richer players to accelerate thier own training far, far more. Classic Malcanis law.
Dr Sraggles
The Covenant of Blood
#23 - 2014-01-12 20:28:35 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Dr Sraggles wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Dr Sraggles wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:



No, not at all. Buying an officer mod doesn't suddenly allow you to fly amarr battleships when you had no ammar skills at all five minutes ago...


Training Amarr BS 1 takes minutes, then bling can make a huge difference in performance. Using one Plex to get Amarr BS 5 is the end of the world?
It's not the end of the world if you have to train for it, like everyone else then.
Your idea is nothing new and doesn't solve any problems. (No, you wanting SP NOW isn't a problem)



The problem it solves is allowing new players to accelerate their training.



Which it does not do, it allows older, richer players to accelerate thier own training far, far more. Classic Malcanis law.


Who cares if an old toon suddenly has Carrier 5?

Would not the game benefit from more players with Frigate 5?
Dr Sraggles
The Covenant of Blood
#24 - 2014-01-12 20:29:48 UTC
Pinky Hops wrote:
will never happen

been discussed many times over the years.

the conclusion is:

1) instantly nobody would have ISK

2) instantly PLEX would be worth a bajillion ISK

neither of which is helpful to the game




This is the best rebuttal I've seen so far.

The question is would we spend all our isk on SP versus ships to blow up?
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#25 - 2014-01-12 20:29:49 UTC
How does it help a new player to 'catch up' if older players are suddenly gaining millions of extra SP?
Mag's
Azn Empire
#26 - 2014-01-12 20:30:49 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Dr Sraggles wrote:
Mag's wrote:
It's not the end of the world if you have to train for it, like everyone else then.
Your idea is nothing new and doesn't solve any problems. (No, you wanting SP NOW isn't a problem)



The problem it solves is allowing new players to accelerate their training.



Which it does not do, it allows older, richer players to accelerate their own training far, far more. Classic Malcanis law.
This.

Plus OP you still do not mention a problem, only a reason you think we need it. Which isn't a reason for change and only creates a problem.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Dr Sraggles
The Covenant of Blood
#27 - 2014-01-12 20:32:11 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
How does it help a new player to 'catch up' if older players are suddenly gaining millions of extra SP?



Because older players already have complete frig/dessie skills. Newer players could buy a month or two and no longer be fodder.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#28 - 2014-01-12 20:33:29 UTC
Dr Sraggles wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
How does it help a new player to 'catch up' if older players are suddenly gaining millions of extra SP?



Because older players already have complete frig/dessie skills. Newer players could buy a month or two and no longer be fodder.


But a new player in a frigate with complete frigate skills is STILL fodder. They're still flying a frigate, and they don't know the game mechanics...
Dr Sraggles
The Covenant of Blood
#29 - 2014-01-12 20:33:45 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
Dr Sraggles wrote:
Mag's wrote:
It's not the end of the world if you have to train for it, like everyone else then.
Your idea is nothing new and doesn't solve any problems. (No, you wanting SP NOW isn't a problem)



The problem it solves is allowing new players to accelerate their training.



Which it does not do, it allows older, richer players to accelerate their own training far, far more. Classic Malcanis law.
This.

Plus OP you still do not mention a problem, only a reason you think we need it. Which isn't a reason for change and only creates a problem.


The problem is the truly fundamental problem of eve. A new player is a nearly worthless toon for many, many months.

The idea is to help people leap frog over the worthless period and get to the fun period sooner.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#30 - 2014-01-12 20:34:13 UTC
Dr Sraggles wrote:


Who cares if an old toon suddenly has Carrier 5?

Would not the game benefit from more players with Frigate 5?
Everyone with balance in mind cares.

The game benefits from players with longevity in mind, not want it now get board 20 minutes later. Eve is not WoW in space and it's skill system is nothing like it either. It is one of the best systems I've come across and allows new players to compete very early on.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Dr Sraggles
The Covenant of Blood
#31 - 2014-01-12 20:34:41 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Dr Sraggles wrote:
Danika Princip wrote:
How does it help a new player to 'catch up' if older players are suddenly gaining millions of extra SP?



Because older players already have complete frig/dessie skills. Newer players could buy a month or two and no longer be fodder.


But a new player in a frigate with complete frigate skills is STILL fodder. They're still flying a frigate, and they don't know the game mechanics...



At least they are flying a ship with a chance?
Mag's
Azn Empire
#32 - 2014-01-12 20:35:00 UTC
Dr Sraggles wrote:


The problem is the truly fundamental problem of eve. A new player is a nearly worthless toon for many, many months.

The idea is to help people leap frog over the worthless period and get to the fun period sooner.
That is a problem with your perception, not the skill system.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Dr Sraggles
The Covenant of Blood
#33 - 2014-01-12 20:36:36 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Dr Sraggles wrote:


Who cares if an old toon suddenly has Carrier 5?

Would not the game benefit from more players with Frigate 5?
Everyone with balance in mind cares.

The game benefits from players with longevity in mind, not want it now get board 20 minutes later. Eve is not WoW in space and it's skill system is nothing like it either. It is one of the best systems I've come across and allows new players to compete very early on.



Ok, so put a limit on how many SP you can buy (say, 3 months). This would let newer players polish a few things and close the gap.

Older toons, would gain relatively little (ie a few level 5 skills).
Dr Sraggles
The Covenant of Blood
#34 - 2014-01-12 20:37:44 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Dr Sraggles wrote:


The problem is the truly fundamental problem of eve. A new player is a nearly worthless toon for many, many months.

The idea is to help people leap frog over the worthless period and get to the fun period sooner.
That is a problem with your perception, not the skill system.


Perception is reality when you are mining in a Venture and getting blown away in a T1 fit Rifter.
Danika Princip
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#35 - 2014-01-12 20:39:04 UTC
Dr Sraggles wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Dr Sraggles wrote:


Who cares if an old toon suddenly has Carrier 5?

Would not the game benefit from more players with Frigate 5?
Everyone with balance in mind cares.

The game benefits from players with longevity in mind, not want it now get board 20 minutes later. Eve is not WoW in space and it's skill system is nothing like it either. It is one of the best systems I've come across and allows new players to compete very early on.



Ok, so put a limit on how many SP you can buy (say, 3 months). This would let newer players polish a few things and close the gap.

Older toons, would gain relatively little (ie a few level 5 skills).



Maintain the gap maybe, they're certainly not closing it. Who do you think can stump up the ISK for a PLEX faster, me with my 80 million SP, or a newbie with five million?
Mag's
Azn Empire
#36 - 2014-01-12 20:40:16 UTC
Dr Sraggles wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Dr Sraggles wrote:


The problem is the truly fundamental problem of eve. A new player is a nearly worthless toon for many, many months.

The idea is to help people leap frog over the worthless period and get to the fun period sooner.
That is a problem with your perception, not the skill system.


Perception is reality when you are mining in a Venture and getting blown away in a T1 fit Rifter.
No that is the reality of Eve and happens no matter what ship you fly.

And no, not even a 3 month limit makes this idea any better.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Dr Sraggles
The Covenant of Blood
#37 - 2014-01-12 20:41:43 UTC
Danika Princip wrote:
Dr Sraggles wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Dr Sraggles wrote:


Who cares if an old toon suddenly has Carrier 5?

Would not the game benefit from more players with Frigate 5?
Everyone with balance in mind cares.

The game benefits from players with longevity in mind, not want it now get board 20 minutes later. Eve is not WoW in space and it's skill system is nothing like it either. It is one of the best systems I've come across and allows new players to compete very early on.



Ok, so put a limit on how many SP you can buy (say, 3 months). This would let newer players polish a few things and close the gap.

Older toons, would gain relatively little (ie a few level 5 skills).



Maintain the gap maybe, they're certainly not closing it. Who do you think can stump up the ISK for a PLEX faster, me with my 80 million SP, or a newbie with five million?


Anyone with $20 in their pocket can buy a PLEX. The idea is to let people who choose to bypass the first frustrating months without buying an abortion in the Character Bazaar.
Ralph King-Griffin
New Eden Tech Support
#38 - 2014-01-12 20:47:46 UTC
Dr Sraggles wrote:
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
Nope.


While I admire your brevity sir, declarative sentences are not useful.

They are with a substantialy protracted and well worn topic like this.

ANY research would have netted you weeks worth of reading on the topic, not to mention the whole aur thing.

Murderers of Negotiable Motivations

=]|[=
Vesan Terakol
Trollgrin Sadface
Dark Taboo
#39 - 2014-01-12 20:48:52 UTC
This discussion is pointless, because:

For the price of one PLEX you already get a month's worth of SP.

All you have to do is wait for that month to pass. Your request is already implemented.
Felsusguy
Panopticon Engineering
#40 - 2014-01-12 20:51:59 UTC
Let me ask a question. Why? If all you want is a mechanic to help new players catch up, there are far better solutions. You know, ones that don't totally and completely destroy the entire point of the skill system.

The Caldari put business before pleasure. The Gallente put business in pleasure.