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Crime & Punishment

 
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Freighter bumping and keeping aggro with newbie ship legal?
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Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#21 - 2014-01-10 06:09:08 UTC
Wait... You carried 25b in a freighter, yet didn't even take the basic precaution of bringing a logistics ship on a second account to prevent this type of gank?

A tech 1 Exequeror costs the grand sum total of about 16 million ISK fully fitted, just saying. Not bringing it appears to have cost you 25 000 million.

Or, two allies could have counterbumped (one to play with the Machariel, one to bump you). Or you could have carried the blueprints in an interceptor, a strategic cruiser, or a battleship with an active tank.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Asia Leigh
Kenshin.
Fraternity.
#22 - 2014-01-10 06:34:37 UTC
Why weren't you hauling your blueprints in a covert-ops frigate, or an interceptor? Even a shuttle would have been a better choice then a freighter >.>
Apply the damn rules equally >.>
Kagura Nikon
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2014-01-10 09:46:59 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Amonios Zula wrote:
Quick question while on this subject.
Can a single escort with a pair of stasis webs sling a freighter to warp through the bumps ?


Probably not. Once the bumping starts, webbing into warp is far less effective.

A single escort can easily web you into warp before the first bump lands, though. I'd go with 3 or 4 webs though.

If you're dual boxing the escort and Freighter, you can use the time that the Freighter is cloaked to manually fly the escort within range. Just takes a little practice to be able to orient yourself to using the Freighter's overview and screen to guide your escort's motions.
Or just press the easy button and buy a Rapier, Huginn, or Hyena.



yes but a pair of ships coudl do it.. by counter bumping the machariel to give the freighter some needed seconds. Not guaranteed, but better than nothing.

"If brute force does not solve your problem....  then you are  surely not using enough!"
Mag's
Azn Empire
#24 - 2014-01-11 01:55:33 UTC
As soon as I saw 25B, it was quite obvious what your problem was.
As others have pointed out, nothing done was against the rules. Learn from it and move on.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Pipa Porto
#25 - 2014-01-11 02:39:08 UTC
Kagura Nikon wrote:
yes but a pair of ships coudl do it.. by counter bumping the machariel to give the freighter some needed seconds. Not guaranteed, but better than nothing.


Sure, a pair of ships could probably do it. But they were asking about what a single escort could do.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Berasus
Ice station zebra
#26 - 2014-01-11 02:55:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Berasus
Pipa Porto wrote:
Kagura Nikon wrote:
yes but a pair of ships coudl do it.. by counter bumping the machariel to give the freighter some needed seconds. Not guaranteed, but better than nothing.


Sure, a pair of ships could probably do it. But they were asking about what a single escort could do.


I've never been in this situation before (wouldn't mind having 25 billion in assets at all' let alone to load into 1 freighter) so I don't really know what works against bumpers like this but just spitballing an idea.

Would webbing the machariel achieve anything. Grab any old cheap cruiser from the lcal station' something like a celestis with 5 mid slots. Fit as many Webber's as you can and when the machariel finishes a bump stack 5 Webber's on it and just shut down its ability to bump again. You'd have until concord arrived to get the freighter into warp. Worst case concord already being there when the gank ships arrive will make the time the gank ships have to do their job a lot shorter?
Paranoid Loyd
#27 - 2014-01-11 04:21:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Paranoid Loyd
Stellar Fitzgerald wrote:
No reply from CCP yet and almost 2 weeks gone.


They haven't stopped ROFL that you were foolish enough to put 25B in a freighter, I know I haven't
I'm sure they'll stop laughing and get back to you soon™ Lol

"There is only one authority in this game, and that my friend is violence. The supreme authority upon which all other authority is derived." ISD Max Trix

Fix the Prospect!
Pipa Porto
#28 - 2014-01-11 05:57:17 UTC
Berasus wrote:
Would webbing the machariel achieve anything. Grab any old cheap cruiser from the lcal station' something like a celestis with 5 mid slots. Fit as many Webber's as you can and when the machariel finishes a bump stack 5 Webber's on it and just shut down its ability to bump again. You'd have until concord arrived to get the freighter into warp. Worst case concord already being there when the gank ships arrive will make the time the gank ships have to do their job a lot shorter?


Might help, sure.

Once CONCORD is on field, if your freighter isn't gone, they'd get back into the bumping rhythm and draw off the CONCORD spawn before ganking you.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Enya Dorne
#29 - 2014-01-11 07:57:53 UTC  |  Edited by: Enya Dorne
Stellar Fitzgerald wrote:


I got ganked to Hisec with 25B of assets in my freighter.

I was bumped by a machariel for an hour and an rookie-ship attacked me every time I tried to logoff to keep the globals on me so I could not do anything but wait 1hour and then my freighter was shot.

I need CCP opinion if this is allowed gameplay. Is it allowed that freighter is kept stuck for an hour by bumping and using a rookie-ship to keep aggroes up?



So you couldn't get burn back to the gate somehow? or you allowed auto-pilot to zoom around space then got caught by a suicidal rookie ship and a bumper car?
Wesley Otsdarva
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2014-01-11 16:04:19 UTC
I'd say this would fall under harassment in terms of bumping. With multiple attempts to leave and even to log off over the course of an hour while they just kept harassing the freighter.
The Legendary Soldier
United.
#31 - 2014-01-11 22:34:00 UTC

There is no doubt that carrying 25b in a freighter is a mistake.

Having said that - being able to prevent such a large and valuable ship from escaping, without ANY risk whatsoever does appear to be at odds with the risk vs reward paradigm....

Need to place a high-sec POS? Premade corps for sale, or your corps standings boosted. Trading since January 2012. Many corps sold/boosted - see my thread: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=63128&find=unread
Berasus
Ice station zebra
#32 - 2014-01-12 04:43:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Berasus
Making repeated bumps of the same target give a suspect flag has been a suggestion I've always liked. But you'd have to solve issues like making the system be able to tell which ship is the bumper and which is the bumpee (or you'd flag the wrong ship and give people a way to exploit free easy kills with no concord intervention)
Powers Sa
#33 - 2014-01-12 05:17:09 UTC
HASHTAG REKT

Do you like winning t2 frigs and dictors for Dirt Cheap?https://eveninggames.net/register/ref/dQddmNgyLhFBqNJk

Remeber: Gambling addiction is no laughing matter unless you've lost a vast space fortune on the internet.
Aedaric
Dog Soldier Collective
#34 - 2014-01-12 05:40:39 UTC
Stellar Fitzgerald wrote:
I died.



Let me know when you have more to lose again eh? = )
Pipa Porto
#35 - 2014-01-12 05:58:44 UTC
Wesley Otsdarva wrote:
I'd say this would fall under harassment in terms of bumping. With multiple attempts to leave and even to log off over the course of an hour while they just kept harassing the freighter.


And, per CCP, you'd be wrong.

OP made no attempt to log off, or he'd have succeeded in doing so.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Christian Lionbate
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#36 - 2014-01-12 07:37:58 UTC
"persistent targeting of a player with bumping by following them around after they have made an effort to move on to another location can be classified as harassment"
Pipa Porto
#37 - 2014-01-12 07:48:04 UTC
Christian Lionbate wrote:
"persistent targeting of a player with bumping by following them around after they have made an effort to move on to another location can be classified as harassment"


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2536157#post2536157
GM Karidor wrote:
Runeme Shilter wrote:
GM Karidor wrote:
However, persistent targeting of a player with bumping by following them around after they have made an effort to move on to another location can be classified as harassment, and this will be judged on a case by case basis.


Does "move to another location" mean another Ice-Asteroid? Or another belt? Another system?

RS


While it will involve inconvenience, we will have to see that one actively tried evasion before we consider someone being followed around and harassed. Merely changing belts in the same system or moving a few thousand meters to another asteroid would not qualify in this regard. Ideally you would move to other systems and more than just one or two jumps to avoid being found again quickly, requiring some effort to locate you again (i.e. through locator agents).



Italics for the important bit you missed.

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Christian Lionbate
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#38 - 2014-01-12 08:11:29 UTC
Pipa Porto wrote:
Christian Lionbate wrote:
"persistent targeting of a player with bumping by following them around after they have made an effort to move on to another location can be classified as harassment"


https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2536157#post2536157
GM Karidor wrote:
Runeme Shilter wrote:
GM Karidor wrote:
However, persistent targeting of a player with bumping by following them around after they have made an effort to move on to another location can be classified as harassment, and this will be judged on a case by case basis.


Does "move to another location" mean another Ice-Asteroid? Or another belt? Another system?

RS


While it will involve inconvenience, we will have to see that one actively tried evasion before we consider someone being followed around and harassed. Merely changing belts in the same system or moving a few thousand meters to another asteroid would not qualify in this regard. Ideally you would move to other systems and more than just one or two jumps to avoid being found again quickly, requiring some effort to locate you again (i.e. through locator agents).



Italics for the important bit you missed.


Freighter was trying to move to another location, persistent bumping was preventing that. Do try to keep up.
Pipa Porto
#39 - 2014-01-12 08:18:37 UTC
Christian Lionbate wrote:
Freighter was trying to move to another location, persistent bumping was preventing that. Do try to keep up.


Let's see if you can get it with fewer words to distract you:

GM Karidor wrote:
moving a few thousand meters ... would not qualify in this regard. Ideally you would move to other systems and more than just one or two jumps to avoid being found again quickly,

EvE: Everyone vs Everyone

-RubyPorto
Christian Lionbate
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#40 - 2014-01-12 09:12:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Christian Lionbate
Pipa Porto wrote:
Christian Lionbate wrote:
Freighter was trying to move to another location, persistent bumping was preventing that. Do try to keep up.


Let's see if you can get it with fewer words to distract you:

GM Karidor wrote:
moving a few thousand meters ... would not qualify in this regard. Ideally you would move to other systems and more than just one or two jumps to avoid being found again quickly,


I get it just fine Pipa, we just disagree on interpretation. The quoted guidance is set out to address miner bumping but it sets perimeters as to what is and is not acceptable. The freighter could not move because of bumping. The guidance makes clear that some bumping is acceptable but excessive or repeated bumping is not (I even underlined the word you seem to have missed). I think the the amount of time the freighter was held for was excessive and qualifies as harassment. Had this been a well planned op and the bumping been used to hold the freighter whilst a fleet warps in then fine but, clearly, this op was done on the fly and took an hour to put together. Using game mechanics to hold the freighter for that amount of time to has be wrong.