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Chat log modification

Author
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#1 - 2014-01-11 12:29:01 UTC
I am just curious if there is a way to modify a chat log.

I have an idea to create a Miner Insurance Corporation where miners can pay the corporation a monthly premium and if they lose their ship, the corporation will reimburse them for the ship they have insured. To qualify for reimbursement the killmail would reflect that they were tanking their ship but they would also be required to type something in Local or other chat channel a couple seconds immediately before or after the kill.

I just don't want people modifying chat logs to reflect their presence when they weren't actually there.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!

Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
#2 - 2014-01-11 12:35:07 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:
I am just curious if there is a way to modify a chat log.

I have an idea to create a Miner Insurance Corporation where miners can pay the corporation a monthly premium and if they lose their ship, the corporation will reimburse them for the ship they have insured. To qualify for reimbursement the killmail would reflect that they were tanking their ship but they would also be required to type something in Local or other chat channel a couple seconds immediately before or after the kill.

I just don't want people modifying chat logs to reflect their presence when they weren't actually there.



Hmm as far as I know its far easier to modify chat logs than KMs.

Chat logs are stored as text files.

Im trying to think of a good suggestion.

KMs are ok, I know that the New Order accepts them for lost catalyst and stabber compensation claims when theres been a positive result on a gank, if thats any help.

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann

Shirley Serious
Gutter Press
#3 - 2014-01-11 12:37:43 UTC
chat logs are stored in plain txt files under "\Documents\EVE\logs\Chatlogs".

trivial to edit and upload them to pastebin or wherever, to claim things.

You'd need multiple independent sources of the chatlogs, to find any anomalies.

Just the facts.

Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#4 - 2014-01-11 12:45:55 UTC
Ramona McCandless wrote:
Kimmi Chan wrote:
I am just curious if there is a way to modify a chat log.

I have an idea to create a Miner Insurance Corporation where miners can pay the corporation a monthly premium and if they lose their ship, the corporation will reimburse them for the ship they have insured. To qualify for reimbursement the killmail would reflect that they were tanking their ship but they would also be required to type something in Local or other chat channel a couple seconds immediately before or after the kill.

I just don't want people modifying chat logs to reflect their presence when they weren't actually there.



Hmm as far as I know its far easier to modify chat logs than KMs.

Chat logs are stored as text files.

Im trying to think of a good suggestion.

KMs are ok, I know that the New Order accepts them for lost catalyst and stabber compensation claims when theres been a positive result on a gank, if thats any help.


Yea I was fairly confident in the accuracy of KMs.

Shirley "You can't be" Serious wrote:
chat logs are stored in plain txt files under "\Documents\EVE\logs\Chatlogs".

trivial to edit and upload them to pastebin or wherever, to claim things.

You'd need multiple independent sources of the chatlogs, to find any anomalies.


Maybe having a chat channel that is open all the time with myself or another "Claims Representative" monitoring it. Time stamp compared to the KM?

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!

Shirley Serious
Gutter Press
#5 - 2014-01-11 12:54:00 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:

Maybe having a chat channel that is open all the time with myself or another "Claims Representative" monitoring it. Time stamp compared to the KM?


that would work, but there are a couple technical issues:

1. 100% coverage of representatives, over the 23/7 of the EVE week. Difficult to guarantee someone is online all the time, due to things outside your control - Socket Closed errors, ISP problems, that sort of thing.
2. False claims - someone may accuse a particular representative of being untrustworthy, and submit doctored chatlogs. The representative only really has their chatlogs to support them. He-Said-She-Said and all that.

These lessen when you have enough of a critical mass of people, but it's getting to that point that's the problem. Have to convince people of your honesty and integrity and all that first, so that they can trust you, and trust your systems&procedures.

Just the facts.

Pix Severus
Empty You
#6 - 2014-01-11 12:58:08 UTC
http://eve-live.com/

MTU Hunter: Latest Entry - June 12 2017 - Vocal Local 5

MTU Hunting 101: Comprehensive Guide

Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#7 - 2014-01-11 13:06:19 UTC
Shirley "You can't be" Serious wrote:


that would work, but there are a couple technical issues:

1. 100% coverage of representatives, over the 23/7 of the EVE week. Difficult to guarantee someone is online all the time, due to things outside your control - Socket Closed errors, ISP problems, that sort of thing.
2. False claims - someone may accuse a particular representative of being untrustworthy, and submit doctored chatlogs. The representative only really has their chatlogs to support them. He-Said-She-Said and all that.

These lessen when you have enough of a critical mass of people, but it's getting to that point that's the problem. Have to convince people of your honesty and integrity and all that first, so that they can trust you, and trust your systems&procedures.


Thanks Ramona and Shirley. It's easy for me to sit here and think this is a decent idea and I appreciate you both for the insight. I think a lot of this can be managed by legalese in the policy. Insurance companies don't make money by just handing out free money. In the simplest terms, they profit from the rampant stupidity of others (not a dig at anyone just a fact).

I think if the policy is written in a way that places absolute requirements for reimbursement there is a profit to be made. Those requirements being (at least for the time being):

Fit a tank. (Verified by KM)
Don't be AFK. (Verified by chat log - maybe a trusted 3rd party)
Have standard insurance (this would classify more as GAP insurance)
Don't mine while actively war-decced.

I could also add that NPC corp characters do not qualify. Not just for profit but in the interest of emergent gameplay. Not totally sold on this idea yet but...

And the policy would include some kind of absolute that all decisions by XXX Insurance are final etc.

The real question I have to ask myself honestly is, if this is a good idea why has no one else done it yet?

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!

Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#8 - 2014-01-11 13:21:49 UTC
Pix Severus wrote:
http://eve-live.com/


Thank you Pix. I've not seen this before.

And this can't be modified I am guessing?

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!

Pix Severus
Empty You
#9 - 2014-01-11 13:36:05 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:
Pix Severus wrote:
http://eve-live.com/


Thank you Pix. I've not seen this before.

And this can't be modified I am guessing?


I'm unsure about that, depends whether the chat is pulled from channel logs (if such a thing exists) or personal chat logs. You'd have to ask Chribba.

MTU Hunter: Latest Entry - June 12 2017 - Vocal Local 5

MTU Hunting 101: Comprehensive Guide

Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#10 - 2014-01-11 14:17:33 UTC
it'll just be pulled from personal chat logs.

Chribba doesn't get access at a higher level than the rest of us. Just an alt, sitting in the channel.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Norm Tempesta
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2014-01-11 14:48:11 UTC
Just use api verified Killmails............
Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2014-01-11 15:02:42 UTC
Create a tax haven corp for them to join in?

... but ...

Killmails can't be faked if linked ingame, so I'm wondering why you'd need a chatlog too?

Just trying to understand, so I can help. :)

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE

Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2014-01-11 15:04:33 UTC
Chribba has bots in channels that save the content. You could ask him for one in a specific channel, but not for several locals I guess...

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE

Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
#14 - 2014-01-11 15:09:52 UTC
I think that we could be good Insurance Investigators for you.

We can specialise in prosecuting cases of Insurance Fraude

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insurance_investigator

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann

Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#15 - 2014-01-11 15:13:10 UTC
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
Create a tax haven corp for them to join in?

... but ...

Killmails can't be faked if linked ingame, so I'm wondering why you'd need a chatlog too?

Just trying to understand, so I can help. :)


Chatlog to prove not AFK.

A valid claim would require the pilot to say, "Claim" or something else within seconds of being podded in a verifiable chat channel somewhere. Time stamp on the KM would be verified against the time stamp of the "Proof of presence" in the channel.


"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!

Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#16 - 2014-01-11 15:15:08 UTC
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
Just trying to understand, so I can help. :)


Ramona McCandless wrote:
I think that we could be good Insurance Investigators for you.


I love you both. Seriously, I want to have your babies.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!

Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
#17 - 2014-01-11 15:18:04 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:


I love you both. Seriously, I want to have your babies.



I can bring you some, if you are hungry

"Yea, some dude came in and was normal for first couple months, so I gave him director." - Sean Dunaway

"A singular character could be hired to penetrate another corps space... using gorilla like tactics..." - Chane Morgann

Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#18 - 2014-01-11 15:18:59 UTC
Demand an eve mail from them, within a certain timeframe?

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Shaden Nightwalker
Tryblium Sanguinis
#19 - 2014-01-11 15:20:32 UTC
Kimmi Chan wrote:
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
Just trying to understand, so I can help. :)


Ramona McCandless wrote:
I think that we could be good Insurance Investigators for you.


I love you both. Seriously, I want to have your babies.


Just have them send you an eve-mail immediately after. Problem solved.
Kimmi Chan
Tastes Like Purple
#20 - 2014-01-11 15:25:56 UTC
Looks like I might be spending some time at work drafting a standard policy. Because I certainly don't do any work at work.

"Grr Kimmi  Nerf Chans!" ~Jenn aSide

www.eve-radio.com  Join Eve Radio channel in game!

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