EVE General Discussion

Seems to me the solo industrialist types that inhabit hisec are unlikely to run off and form corps and build losec/null POS if the manufacturing slots were chopped. In reality eliminating hisec manufacturing slots will just make it impossible for non-corp players and in particular new players in NPC schools to ever make anything.

Essentially the OP is a bit like Nixon saying back in the '70s "... if we eliminate California all those d@mn hippies will have to give up this Peace & Love nonsense and will all see the error of their ways and join the army and go fight in 'nam like proper Americans" . In reality they would have just all moved to Portland.

Why should the highsec solo industrialist get the same rewards with far lower costs and with near perfect safety than the null industrialist who has to operate out of a POS?

…except that in this case, making them move to Portland is the whole point.

It has nothing to do with uprooting or displacing the “solo industrialist type” but about making the nullsec player who's (inevitably) doing his industry in high move that production out to null as well. He has no problems living there — in fact, he already does — but he is mechanically and systematically forced to do his industry somewhere else because of the massive benefits it provides. If those benefits are removed, there will no longer be any reason for him to be in higshsec. This leaves the field open to those who do have a problem with living outside of highsec.

Botters gonna bot. And they know where the botters are because they keep finding them. They keep finding them because they keep reappearing. It's hardly rocket surgery and it definitely isn't a non sequitur.

As for the rest, just watch the presentation.

So hundreds of 50% time bonuses slots possible in a single Null outpost aren't considered an advantage? Especially since the Outpost is placed for other reasons and the manufacturing slots are an additional bonus, not the entire cost of the outpost.

I'm sorry, but the 'High sec has more slots' argument is now patently false.
Even under the old outposts Null sec had a higher density of slots per station than high sec did. Let alone the new potential.

Better access to materials is also false. As High Sec has to import. So Null could simply stop importing to highsec and watch high sec industry collapse. That is a choice by Null to provide High the materials in large quantities. Not a 'requirement'.

Other issues, sure, but you can't simply slap a nerf onto high sec on those. Things like production line costs are a complex issue which if implemented needs to apply to all sectors of space in a sensible manner.

And..... the last question. Why is it bad that high sec is the best at one thing? Null does have more income, anyone trying to argue otherwise in absolutes is delusional. Risk/Reward balance. Well that's an individual choice as to how much risk is acceptable for how small a reward increase. But absolute, Null/WH is better at nearly every single other aspect of income & acquisition. Why can't High sec actually be best at something, it's not 'noob' space. It's allowed to actually win at a few things in absolute measures.

All I have to say to this is, "Thank you Malcanis".

Not compared to what you get for free elsewhere, no.

Please provide an outpost build that offers:
• 50 copy slots
• 100 ME research slots
• 100 PE research slots
• 750 manufacturing slots
• 100 invention slots
• 528 offices
• 100% refinery.

…all with no investment cost, no upkeep, no risk of loss, no transport costs, all materials available in massive quantities 5 jumps away, and no security costs. You can't. The mechanics don't allow for it. So no, any claim that null can provide more slots is nothing short of clueless.

Because it removes all incentive to do that activity elsewhere, even though it is supposed to be a viable — even desirable — option.

This was a post on the first page of the thread, but I think it needs a response, also:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtdmlHcyV9I is a good explanation of why "more ships get killed overall in 0.0". You can see pretty clearly that many of the pilots in the video are in a purely offensive mindset and it doesn't occur to them to do anything other than try to kill the target. They throw ship after ship at the NOmen pilot without any sort of coherent tactic other than Approach->Tackle->Shoot->Die . To be fair, it happens in high sec, too, but it doesn't scale up in the same way as it does when sovereignty and supercapitals are on the line. That so many ships die in null isn't so much a comment on how much PVP takes place there as it is a comment on what kind of players PVP there.

Many null corps are full of over-eager cannon fodder. It's no surprise that they take a lot of losses.

I am a very vocal high sec bear. Granted I don't give a **** about industry in HS. It's just not my thing. But I do know that player corps can POS in HS with enough standing and GTFO the station manufacturing queues. So the only purpose then of station manufacturing queues is NPC Corp players?

So at the end, and correct me if I'm wrong Baltec, CCP needs to remove manufacturing facilities in HS and in a huge way? This encourages more player owned corps, makes nullsec industry better than HS industry? Am I following the logic here correctly?

Don't be sorry, just admit you haven't actually read my posts.

…so it's pretty meaningless and is not a reason to balance out the availability of slots.

A reduction of slots in highsec wouldn't create any discrimination at all. It would just make it so that it's useful to move to where the slots are available. If you live in null, that will be in null. If you live in high, it will be in high. If you live in w-space… well, POSes are a whole different kettle of fish.

Prime time is not a factor since you can just queue the jobs up at your leisure and since they can, will, and do at all hours of the day. Reducing the number of slots is of critical importance in order to make them less viable an option compared to other alternatives. As it is right now, they are effectively infinite — that is far too many.

Yes, you also have to increase the costs, but one without the other will have no real effect. One is to make it necessary to spread out; the other is to also make it a good idea to do so. If it's necessary but a bad idea, it's just a bad idea writ large. If it's a bad idea but unnecessary, it will have no effect, as unnecessary things often do.

Nonni. It's not about the station, but about the system. Until you can place multiple outposts in the same system, we do it by a system-to-system basis. Hell, there are entire nullsec regions that offer less production capability than this one highsec system.

So… can you please provide me with an outpost build that offers all of that? If you can't, what you say is not patently false — but forcibly patently false because the mechanics simply don't allow your ignorant claim to be true.

Than may I suggest that whilst running missions in hi-sec, null-sec folk could utilize these empty manufacturing slots.