EVE General Discussion

Frankly, all these threads about nerfing highsec when the problem is nullsec profitability are becoming tiresome.

Actually, nullsec offers a better absolute income than highsec, it has already been debated in other threads and admitted by all that if the actual income in nullsec is inferior to highsec it's because nullseccers typically interrupt their activity when their infoweb tell them a non-blue is nearby.

But that's their choice, they could go on doing what they are doing and have a better income/hour, yet they chose not to.
It's their concern, if they do not take the risk involved then they do not get the reward.

And highsec is not absolutely risk free, it's enough to look up osmon, jita, lanngisi and apanake podkill/day to realize it, so let's throw this idea of total babysitting out of the window, it's simply not true.

Who is commuting? Nullsec players just have alts in HS. They're not flying their alts here. Their alts live here. As far as the logistics of shipping loot and salvage to HS... that isn't going to change either just from nerfing HS income.

And as far as people in Nullsec making more money - how? If all you're doing is lowering rewards or adding risk in HS, that does not equal an increase in income in Null. If you want to make more money in Null - lobby to buff Null income. Or are you talking income relative to HS? In which case the question becomes why is important to nerf this part of the game, not for the benefit of anyone, but just because?

Is there a reason why people can't just pay their sub and play the game as it is? I swear, CCP Devs must absolutely hate their jobs. All day, every day:

Nerf ganking!
Buff ganking!
Nerf AFK Cloaker *******!
Nerf Drone Assist!
Nerf SuperCapitals!
Nerf Incursions!
Nerf Bastion Modules!
Change Bastion Modules!
******* MTU got me killed - MTU is ******* fail! (MTU for CSM!)
Nerf High Sec!
Nerf Null Sec!
Buff Corpses!

All day long - these poor bastards at CCP put together a pretty ******* awesome game and everyone playing it apparently ******* hates it because they come here on a daily basis to argue about the changes that it absolutely must have or:

Eve will die
I and my 8 accounts will quit
Things will be unbalanced
The sky will fall
Player base will stagnate
New players will leave

Seriously, what kind of sense does that make?

Are you seriously quoting statistics that were generated over three years ago?

Pretty sure this is out of date. Can't find the source but i think incursion payouts are currently topping the list of injected isk.

Nope I lied, it was bounty payouts, though with no breakdown for sec status.

Most of the income from l4s is not created in the form of ISK.

If ratting generated 5m ISK/hr and mining generated 50m ISK/hr, ratting would be the bigger ISK faucet but you'd be nuts to argue that that meant it was the higher income activity.





Just because it consists of logging off one character and logging on another doesn't change that it is commuting.



More money than they would in HS.

I explained the reason why simply buffing income in Nullsec is a worse idea than nerfing HS income. Because if you buff nullsec income, you also have to try to buff LS and WH income in perfect step with that, which would have the exact same effect as nerfing HS except that you'd cause more inflation.

Look up the concept of a Zero-Sum game. Buffing everything but HS and Nerfing HS are functionally identical actions.

And it isn't "just because." There is currently no rational reason for even the most risk hungry player to try to make money doing PvE outside of HS. The income in the lower risk area of HS is just as good. Providing a difference in income potential is the benefit, and nerfing HS is the least costly method.


Once they could talk, the first question was 'Why did you start this thing?' and the answer was 'Me?”

I didn't look much at that thread, but the most recent numbers I'm aware of were from a year ago from CCP Diagoras. Those put incursions (301.8 billion ISK) 3rd behind bounty payouts (896.34 billion ISK) and NPC buy orders (337.4 billion ISK) for the month of January 2012. That would have to be a REALLY big swing in activity, bigger than the concurrent incursion count to support I'd imagine, to cause it to topple bounties.

If there are more recent numbers I'd love to see them.

ED: Double checked and that was pre-nerf incursions, so we wouldn't have been looking at depressed numbers during the adaptation period.

At the basis it is not, bounties and salvage/loot are what they are, the isk rewards from missions are pocket change, only the LP matters if one can optimize the mission farming.
But the LP/isk ratio is market related, it depends on the desirability of the items sold.
Cut down the LPs and the items will be more rare, their price will go up, and the isk/LP ratio will grow and the same people will do the same amount of money through less LPs, that's all.
The only change will be that people with lower income will not be able to buy some of the things anymore, and if their income is subpar then they couldn't buy much already, so it won't be a big enough loss of customerhood that the prices will get down because of it.
It will only decrease the access to content for some people.


You have mission agents in some parts of nullsec too, you know.
On the complexes I agree that they should be more numerous in null sec than what they are if, considering the low number of active residents, people have to resort to high sec farming.
And nerfing missions will not hinder the biggest way to wealth: trading, there will still be market hubs.


Those are the main wealth generating systems in highsec, so they are not exceptions at all, people go where there is economical potential and gankers go where many targets go, it's that simple.
So yes, a satisfying income in highsec means taking some risk in getting podded, less than in low or null admittedly but that's only fair as the rewards for an uninterrupted farming session are not the same.
High sec income is prefered because it is safer, not because it is safe.

And that's precisely the problem, it's not that people are doing highsec farming because it is better, but because it is safer.
The problem is not reward related, it is risk related.
Look at an the incursion actually happening in gallente space, look its progression level.
Then look where it is.
See, incursions are supposed to pay even better than SOE L4, but no one is doing this one, because it is in serpent's coil.
Risk related, not isk related.

Which is why my suggestion has been for some time to leave their payouts alone, and increase their risk.

Make wardecs generate killrights on a person who drops corp during a war. That'd be a good step for starters. If people don't like it, then there's always NPC corps, which if they dec dodge they belong in anyway.

It's about time to stamp these 5 man highsec corps out of existence anyway.



No. This will cause inflation. Inflation is so bad it's hard to adequately describe it.

Actually giving people a reason to live in nullsec, you know, increase their ability to perform industrial activities and improve their infrastructure and such, would be more helpful.



If you're awake, it is almost impossible to die in highsec. It's too safe, if anything.

I blame them as partially responsible for the poor newbie turnaround rate and overall poor new player experience.

That's news to me. Probably also to the botters who were freaking out about the warp speed and interceptor changes because they were afraid they wouldn't be able to warp off in time anymore. Probably also to the people who go to botting forums looking for space in null sec to rent. Also probably news to the null sec CEOs who go to botting forums trying to recruit botters. And probably news to PL's leadership, who reportedly were laughing about some of their tenants wishing to know if they could pay their rent via PayPal.

There is a train of thought among some botters that null sec is safer than high sec because there are less people around who will use the Report Bot button. If a neutral comes into system, the bot can warp to a POS or safe spot and log off. A CCP ban is a little more disruptive.

I am not saying that there are more botters in null than in high, but to say it doesn't go on is a little naive, to say the least.