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My alternate EVE design: maximum volley damage for different ship sizes?
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Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2014-01-09 08:16:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Reaver Glitterstim
Hi guys. I have long been in the process of designing my own version of EVE Online, very similar yet substantially different. I am aiming to correct various imbalances as I see them and craft a game that to me seems to have its mathematics done more sensibly.

So today I was determining the firing speeds of the turrets and launchers. I want to keep the largest battleship artillery at a base fire rate of ~40 seconds, which in my system will infer an unskilled volley damage of 384 per turret using lead ammo. This is pretty similar to the 341.504 damage from an unskilled lead volley using 1400mm Howitzer Artillery I in the actual game, though mine is higher because I am increasing the DPS variation between weapons of different sizes.

So my question is what ratio of volley damage do you guys think is good for the different sizes of artillery? I'd like some people with alpha fleet experience to tell me how much alpha is good on battlecruisers and destroyers. How high does it need to be to convince people to make Thrasher and Hurricane alpha fleets, and what does it need to stay under to keep Maelstroms and Tempests in use? I will use your estimations to determine the rate of fire of the smaller artillery.

edit: feel free to use numbers, but please put them in context so I understand how they will compare to other figures

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2014-01-09 08:30:09 UTC
lol

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE
Diamond Zerg
Taking Solo Away.
#3 - 2014-01-09 09:22:13 UTC
Im curious is this going to be a pen and paper, tabletop or computer version of EVE?
Hi.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2014-01-09 09:37:08 UTC
I won't be making any of it playable if that's what you're asking. The attributes are purely in document form, as I imagine it all in my head. I use this stuff often to suggest changes to EVE and to help enhance my understanding of game balance, and it may someday be useful in other games I may help to design. But it itself will probably never be playable.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Old Phill
Doomheim
#5 - 2014-01-09 09:54:30 UTC
Thrasher from what ive seen around 2k best they can manage in a single shot not sure about hurricane though
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2014-01-09 10:01:26 UTC
Thrasher gets 1780 volley with max skills and t2 guns/ammo and all gyros in the lows, not counting rigs, drones, or auxiliary launchers. Hurricane gets 4185, Maelstrom gets 11,915. But my question isn't how much they will get, but rather how much they should get.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Mina Sebiestar
Minmatar Inner Space Conglomerate
#7 - 2014-01-09 10:18:15 UTC
as arty platforms they already get high alpha strike what they are lacking is dps and that can be fixed more sensibly by increasing ROF rather than slap even more alpha on them.

not sure what you are aiming for.

You choke behind a smile a fake behind the fear

Because >>I is too hard
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2014-01-09 10:29:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Reaver Glitterstim
I am not going to increase the DPS for artillery. I believe that artillery is a useful weapon system as a low-DPS high-alpha weapon. It is great when used to blap ships before enemy logistics can repair them. If you don't like its low DPS, then you should fit beam lasers or short-range turrets instead.

I already have a DPS chosen for these weapons. All I need is to determine their volley damage, and then I can figure out the rate of fire and damage multiplier from there.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2014-01-10 19:09:41 UTC
Bump.

Looking for an answer here, haven't even got an attempt yet.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#10 - 2014-01-10 19:13:41 UTC
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Bump..


Quote:
14. Bumping outside the EVE Marketplace and Alliance & Corporation Recruitment channels is prohibited.
The bumping of posts to alter the order of the thread listing on a forum is prohibited outside the EVE Marketplace and Alliance & Corporation Recruitment forum channels. Within the EVE Marketplace section of the forums, each forum category has its own rules regarding acceptable bumping for sales threads clearly listed in the stickies. Similarly the Alliance & Corporation Recruitment channel also has its own rules. Please be aware that the rules vary from forum to forum. Please review the sticky threads in these forum channels for specific details.


Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Natassia Krasnoo
R3D SHIFT
#11 - 2014-01-10 19:23:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Natassia Krasnoo
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:
Bump.

Looking for an answer here, haven't even got an attempt yet.


I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that you don't visit the General Discussion forums very often.
This is where serious posts and questions go to get trolled and fall far short of achieving anything resembling an answer or coherent discussion. Just thought I'd let you know.
Ptraci
3 R Corporation
#12 - 2014-01-10 19:25:46 UTC
So you can write a game "similar to Eve Online" but somehow you can't balance ship damage? In b4 kickstarter link.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#13 - 2014-01-10 19:30:38 UTC
I've got the DPS balanced pretty well, but I'm willing to admit that I don't know everything about EVE. I don't ask for help for the vast majority of this, but I'm behind the curve when it comes to alpha fleets and blapping ships. But if you think my skills are so lacking, perhaps you can do better?

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Gogela
Epic Ganking Time
CODE.
#14 - 2014-01-10 19:36:19 UTC
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
lol

notMTquoting...

Signatures should be used responsibly...
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#15 - 2014-01-10 19:46:51 UTC
Natassia Krasnoo wrote:
I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that you don't visit the General Discussion forums very often.
This is where serious posts and questions go to get trolled and fall far short of achieving anything resembling an answer or coherent discussion. Just thought I'd let you know.


I see you've been here before. Hold on a second, let me punch your card. 12th troll is on the house!

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2014-01-10 19:58:34 UTC
This might fit better in ships and modules. Well you know what they say, hindsight is 20/20. Well then, if any ISD should see fit to move this to ships and modules, I would not complain. But as long as I'm here, I'd hope to get at least one serious answer. I don't really care how many troll posts it takes to get there.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights
#17 - 2014-01-10 20:32:54 UTC
I'm not exactly sure what your looking for either, but I'll take a stab at it. My assumption is you want to scale damage based on the size of the 'tube' the weapon is firing out of. Here we go:

You could use modern artillery for inspiration (dropping to mortars when the caliber is low). Google army field, technical manuals, and you should be able to get some 'kill radius,' 'blast radius,' and 'cratering' info. With that you could use kill radius of a 60mm mortar round against an 81mm mortar round against a 120mm mortar round (105mm arty, 155mm arty) to get a feel for how the 'damage' is scaled use HE (high explosive) rounds. You could theoretically do the same with some of the underslung grenade launchers (M203) for ultra small scale information.

You'll just have to make sure you are comparing ground explosion to ground explosion and not including any airburst (HE Delay, HE Time).

A quick google search yields:
http://www.ask.com/question/120mm-mortar

I would refer to Army FMs and TMs (which are available to the public) if you want more 1st hand information.
Tollen Gallen
Glory of Reprisal Enterprise
#18 - 2014-01-10 20:35:40 UTC
I like Battleships.

Zimmy Zeta - I f*cking love martinis. the original ones, with gin, not that vodka martini crap. Your old Friends can use me for 7 days, free!!!
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2014-01-10 20:50:20 UTC
Noxisia Arkana wrote:
My assumption is you want to scale damage based on the size of the 'tube' the weapon is firing out of.

Absolutely not. I'm trying to find out how much alpha strike is enough for a battlecruiser or destroyer to balance it for use in alpha fleets. I want to set the amount high enough to make them used in alpha fleets, but not so high that they become more valued than battleships. That's pretty much what I've already stated here, though.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Noxisia Arkana
Deadspace Knights
#20 - 2014-01-10 20:52:57 UTC

So your contention is that it is not balanced; and that you'll get the math better than CCP. I see what I missed here.

Fair enough, for that I have nothing.
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